The Attack on Pakistan's Erieye

[karan.1970]

Silly question on your part Karan. It's not food for thought.

Why do you say that.. If 3 are enough, why buy 4 in the 1st place?

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Rumors , nothing else but waste of time

 

[Myth_buster_1]

well , is there any strategy for future ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
why can't we use 30 to 35 trained dogs to protect a base .... because at night dogs can detect a target and engage it better than human ............. it will give our forces to identify the target and locate it .......

Welcome to Pakistan where humans are forced to work like dogs.
Their is a army dogs training center in murree and i heard each dog costs about 100,000 rupees and btw dogs threat can be neutralized with one shot. What needs to be done is simply raise the height of the walls with electric fence because these cheap @ss generals assume that kachi dewar with barbed wire can ward off enemy attacks and will bluntly lable it as "one of the most advance security in the world".

 

[Darth Vader]

lol PAK ke pass itne plane nhi jitni Discussion krdi hai LOL Does it matter IF all are blown a part or All r fine its AF job and em pretty sure they know how 2 take care of it

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

Why do you say that.. If 3 are enough, why buy 4 in the 1st place?

To evenly spread out the technology to others trained to assume the role. Or did you think we should devote all men to a couple aircrafts?

Use your head, or just post when you are willing to. Best advice I could give you.


P.S. we have more than 4 aircrafts for AEW&C role already, FYI

Welcome to Pakistan where humans are forced to work like dogs.
Their is a army dogs training center in murree and i heard each dog costs about 100,000 rupees and btw dogs threat can be neutralized with one shot. What needs to be done is simply raise the height of the walls with electric fence because these cheap @ss generals assume that kachi dewar with barbed wire can ward off enemy attacks and will bluntly lable it as "one of the most advance security in the world".

You better have a quick shot if a 45-50 kilo German Shepherd angry and ready to kill is running at you at 40 miles per hour.

The point is, their scent is thousands of times stronger than humans so in any event where terrorists are hiding they can be tracked an dealt with (by SSG or other regulars)

As for dogs in the army, they are used for some time now nothing new. A lot of time and resources devoted towards training them.

 

[karan.1970]

To evenly spread out the technology to others trained to assume the role. Or did you think we should devote all men to a couple aircrafts?

Use your head, or just post when you are willing to. Best advice I could give you.


P.S. we have more than 4 aircrafts for AEW&C role already, FYI

Dude, you get me wrong.. And you just answered why that aircraft was needed.. Though In your post that I answered, you implied that the remaining planes were enough for Pakistan's need..

and personal attacks do reflect incompetence

 

[Jango]

A trainer was also inducted and in worse case scenario can be converted (assuming the radar and comm/electronic warfare systems are intact)

I said four Saab 2000 in all forms before the kamra attack, AWACS or otherwise, now I''ll leave it at that.

 

[Mani2020]

lol PAK ke pass itne plane nhi jitni Discussion krdi hai LOL Does it matter IF all are blown a part or All r fine its AF job and em pretty sure they know how 2 take care of it

rhetoric is the one word i can use here for this post

 

[Jango]

There is no Eriye destroyed Man ... if it was destroyed there would have been footage of some bi fire ball or smoke but there was not like in pns mehran case pC3 Fire was glowing in all city

If you had an iota of common sense, you wouldn't be asking this question.

 

[Fieldmarshal]

This proves without a shadow of doubt that PAF lost one saab 2000 awacs. it vindicates my stance that i have held from day one which most of the posters found hard to swallow and rubbished it all along

Tax-payers kept in the dark about loss of plane worth $250m

http://www.thenews.com.pk/Todays-News-2-159025-Tax-payers-kept-in-the-dark-about-loss-of-plane-worth-$250m

ISLAMABAD: The February 6 admission by senior officials of the defence ministry that a Saab-2000 aircraft fitted with an Airborne Early Warning & Control System (AWACS) was totally destroyed in the August 15, 2012 terror attack on the Kamra airbase, implies that the concerned authorities had been keeping the tax payers in the dark for the past six months by claiming that it was only the nose cone of the precious aircraft which had been partially damaged and that it would be repaired by the manufacturers in Sweden.

The fact that the Kamra airbase raiders had completely destroyed one of the four Saab-2000 AWACS planes was made public for the first time by Additional Secretary Defence Rear Admiral Farrokh Ahmad during a meeting of the National Assembly’s Standing Committee on Defence on February 6, six months after the Minhas airbase at Kamra was attacked by the Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan.

The meeting was chaired by President Zardari’s sister, Azra Fazal Pechuho, as the chairperson of the 18-member Committee. Responding to a question by Ayaz Ameer, one of the Standing Committee members, Rear Admiral Farrokh Ahmad conceded that a Saab-2000 AWACS which was parked at the Minhas airbase was completely destroyed by “miscreants” when the Kamra came under attack.

When asked by Ayaz Ameer to further enlighten the Committee on the issue, Secretary Defence Lt Gen (R) Asif Yaseen Malik admitted that one fourth early warning ability of the PAF was knocked out by the raiders with the ruining of one of the four Swedish-made Saab-2000 planes.

But the secretary defence did not respond to Ayaz’s query about the actual loss suffered by the national kitty due to the ruining of Saab-2000 AWACS. As The News asked PAF spokesman Group Captain Tariq Mahmood about the likely price of the Saab-2000, he sought a couple of days to collect the required information. Asked about the price of the Saab-2000 AWACS, a senior PAF official said while requesting anonymity that the perished plane was worth 130-140 million US dollars. But a highly placed defence ministry official differed with the figure, saying that the plane destroyed at Kamra was worth 250 million US dollars.

However, a senior defence ministry official said on the condition of anonymity that the Saab-2000 AWACS destroyed at Kamra was worth $250 million. Ayaz Ameer, a former army captain, estimated the price of Saab-2000 somewhere between 250 and 300 million US dollars.

It was on the night of August 15, 2012 that nine fidayeen attackers dressed in military uniforms and armed with rocket propelled grenades and suicide vests, stormed the Minhas airbase. Minhas remained under attack for two hours and finally culminated in the death of two PAF personnel and all the nine attackers who were successful in their mission of destroying one of the Saab-2000 AWACS planes.

TTP spokesman Ehsanullah Ehsan subsequently claimed responsibility for the attack, saying it was carried out to avenge the killings of Baitullah Mehsud and Osama bin Laden. The fidayeen, Ehsan had declared, succeeded in achieving their targets and had delivered a lethal blow to the PAF. But neither Ehsan explained “the lethal blow” inflicted by TTP nor did the PAF deem it fit to concede the destruction of the Saab 2000 aircraft.

Following the attack, PAF spokesman Tariq Mahmood conceded that at least one of the rockets fired by the attackers hit a hangar holding PAF aircrafts. “The rocket pierced the hangar wall while shrapnel from the blast damaged one of the aircraft parked inside. But I cannot reveal the name of the craft… please wait for the inquiry report”, said the spokesman. But the finding of the inquiry, which was ordered by Air Chief Marshal Tahir Rafique Butt and conducted by Air Marshal Athar Hussain Bukhari, has yet to be made public.

Hours after attack, Defence Minister Naveed Qamar said on August 15, 2012, that the death toll of the militants and the minimal damage caused to the base was clear proof of the preparedness of the Pakistani forces.

Talking to newsmen in Islamabad, Qamar said: “The security of the PAF was alert to retaliate in case of a possible attack and they did. The terrorists had suicide vests clasped around them and were carrying heavy arms. However, with minimum damage caused to the Pakistani assets – with only one plane damaged – the security forces were able to eliminate the terrorists.”

Naveed Qamar, however, did not mention the fact that the plane destroyed at Kamra was a Saab 2000 worth $240 million.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik was next to claim on August 17, 2012 that due to the advance warnings about a possible attack on the PAF installations, the attempt to harm the Pakistani assets at Kamra was foiled and all the attackers were killed. Kamra is one of the most important airbases of PAF which also hosts the 33 multi-role fighter wing of the PAF, one squadron of JF-17 and one squadron of FT-6 trainers. It was in October 2005 that the Pakistan government had struck a deal to purchase five Saab-2000 planes.

The first of these was delivered to the PAF on December 29, 2009, and the second one in April 2011, which was followed by two others. And the prime aim of the TTP fidayeen was to locate and destroy one such valuable plane which was parked at Minhas airbase.

 

[Mani2020]

as the Pandora box has been opened up now lets wait and watch how things get revealed much to the misery of those who abused us and who were closing their eyes like a pigeon when he sees a cat hoping the cat will not be able to see him ...they were hoping the same from reality by closing their eyes or pretending to be blinded but reality is harsh as they say......

@nuclearpak mate now these people atleast cant say that its only published by one news source and they have been biased!

 

[Capt.Popeye]

as the Pandora box has been opened up now lets wait and watch how things get revealed much to the misery of those who abused us and who were closing their eyes like a pigeon when he sees a cat hoping the cat will not be able to see him ...they were hoping the same from reality by closing their eyes or pretending to be blinded but reality is harsh as they say......

@nuclearpak mate now these people atleast cant say that its only published by one news source and they have been biased!

Well inevitably, the truth has crept out. PAF erred majorly in trying to keep the lid on the real nature of damage. While the damage is large; its small compared to some historical ones. If the general population in Pakistan had been told; then they would have in turn instantly and resolutely rallied behind the Armed Forces' efforts to stamp out the menace of these recurrent attacks.

Instead the Armed Forces will now face flak from the people for not only incompetence but lack of integrity. That is far more damaging.

 

[Mani2020]

Well inevitably, the truth has crept out. PAF erred majorly in trying to keep the lid on the real nature of damage. While the damage is large; its small compared to some historical ones. If the general population in Pakistan had been told; then they would have in turn instantly and resolutely rallied behind the Armed Forces' efforts to stamp out the menace of these recurrent attacks.

Instead the Armed Forces will now face flak from the people for not only incompetence but lack of integrity. That is far more damaging.

There would have been question marks at that time too ....people at that time were more angry because they expected PAF to act responsibly after all that intelligence reports popping out .....it was expected of them to neutralize the possibility of attack and if not atleast would have tried to minimize the damage ....PAF initially claimed they had done all the heroic stuff to keep the moron terrorists out that gave some relief to the public and lead them in calming down their anger but this way PAF managed one end but opened another end.... now after all that vows and praise when the reality came out people are questioning the credibility of armed forces

This nation since 1947 has supported armed forces instead of their blunders and bloody history of generals just because the military oriented doctrine to defend from her neighbor ....but now as the blunders of talibanization, tilt towards america and wot are popping out many people have started to raise questions ...the multiple attacks on secured places like ghq , mehran and kamra has ridiculed people belief on armed forces ......Had PAF initially accepted the reality people may have forget about the issue as such issues have become part of our daily routine ...nothing new in them....but hiding...twisting...changing statements and then the words coming out from a third party has really effected the image ...moreover it has given those forces a chance to raise their voices once again who were always in favor of reducing military share and diverting it for social causes ......

250 million dollars for a cash starved nation is not a small amount ....such reactions will pop out on every second channel...there will be debates ...criticism ....lets see how PAF now handles it ......

 

[Capt.Popeye]

There would have been question marks at that time too ....people at that time were more angry because they expected PAF to act responsibly after all that intelligence reports popping out .....it was expected of them to neutralize the possibility of attack and if not atleast would have tried to minimize the damage ....PAF initially claimed they had done all the heroic stuff to keep the moron terrorists out that gave some relief to the public and lead them in calming down their anger but this way PAF managed one end but opened another end.... now after all that vows and praise when the reality came out people are questioning the credibility of armed forces

This nation since 1947 has supported armed forces instead of their blunders and bloody history of generals just because the military oriented doctrine to defend from her neighbor ....but now as the blunders of talibanization, tilt towards america and wot are popping out many people have started to raise questions ...the multiple attacks on secured places like ghq , mehran and kamra has ridiculed people belief on armed forces ......Had PAF initially accepted the reality people may have forget about the issue as such issues have become part of our daily routine ...nothing new in them....but hiding...twisting...changing statements and then the words coming out from a third party has really effected the image ...moreover it has given those forces a chance to raise their voices once again who were always in favor of reducing military share and diverting it for social causes ......

250 million dollars for a cash starved nation is not a small amount ....such reactions will pop out on every second channel...there will be debates ...criticism ....lets see how PAF now handles it ......

You have your points, but I'll avoid saying anything about that.

I only wish to say this: the huge damage done in that raid is one thing. But more important is how it took place and how it was facilitated. Undoubtedly this raid as well as previous ones had insider help. That is what needs greater scrutiny. The fact that servicemen can be suborned (by whatever means) is a matter of grave concern. That is what needs to be understood.

For that to happen Public Opinion has to rally and support the security establishment. If the PAF had come clean earlier; then the Public Opinion would have identified it as a threat to the Nation and been supportive of all methods used by the Security Estt. to root out the menace. Transparency (even a "perceived version" of it) can work extremely well to handle large crises.

In this episode; if the damage itself is made out to be insignificant, then how will the perpetrators of it be considered to be a Serious Threat? Then it simply becomes: "yaar, kuch khas nahin hua; chad de".

 

[Mani2020]

You have your points, but I'll avoid saying anything about that.

I only wish to say this: the huge damage done in that raid is one thing. But more important is how it took place and how it was facilitated. Undoubtedly this raid as well as previous ones had insider help. That is what needs greater scrutiny. The fact that servicemen can be suborned (by whatever means) is a matter of grave concern. That is what needs to be understood.

For that to happen Public Opinion has to rally and support the security establishment. If the PAF had come clean earlier; then the Public Opinion would have identified it as a threat to the Nation and been supportive of all methods used by the Security Estt. to root out the menace. Transparency (even a "perceived version" of it) can work extremely well to handle large crises.

In this episode; if the damage itself is made out to be insignificant, then how will the perpetrators of it be considered to be a Serious Threat? Then it simply becomes: "yaar, kuch khas nahin hua; chad de".

I think the reason was PAF might have thought they should hide the issue to avoid the public anger which was on peak in retrospect of mehran base attack they simply thought they cant face another blame game ....navy was already under lime light and it would have put PAF too...instead of gaining anything it would further push the public into hopeless situation ....even the fact itself that few bastard terrorists sniffed in and were able to destroy the most worthy asset ability as well as price wise of one of the most trusted wing of the military was horrible ........ another reason would have been PAF may would have thought they may replace the asset anytime soon without giving even a glimpse of idea to the nation about what happened to the previous one or may put an effort to repair it and see if it works ......but lack of cash got better of them ...finally truth had to come out and it did in a hilarious way

On the infiltration part ....the point is you cant put everyone under scrutiny even if you want to you cant afford to ...the problem is they look same, behave in a similar fashion they talk like us infact they are part of us , they mean terrorists

The problem of this nation is they are too damn emotional it takes just one incident for a person to jump from here to there ...that is switch ends....so you never know with them even if in start their intentions are not so but they may be diverted later on coz of certain reasons ..for some its money...for some its what they perceive about their belief ......the reality is we have beliefs within belief that divide us ......and you cant pin point anyone judging by his face whether he is with us or against us ...so here you are pretty much screwed up !!