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The Arab civilisation then and now

You claimed that the scientists that I mentioned, in particular the Iranian ones, were "linguistically and culturally Arab". This is utter nonsense. Provide evidence for this claim. I'm willing to go through each and every one if you so desire because I have in depth knowledge of their biographies.

When you quote a person, make sure that their name appears correctly. The reason for us to know who you are responding to, sometimes it's difficult to go through every post in a thread to find out if someone responded to you.

Read what the Prophet said again:

The Arabism of anyone of you is not from your mother or father. It is no more than a tongue (language). Whoever speaks Arabic is an Arab."

They spoke Arabic right? That is why they are considered Arabs. All of us know that many of those scientists had different racial origins. Even in modern times, the people of North Africa for example are considered Arabs on the basis of language & culture. Some of them are also mixed with Semitic tribes from the Middle East.
 
When you quote a person, make sure that their name appears correctly. The reason for us to know who you are responding to, sometimes it's difficult to go through every post in a thread to find out if someone responded to you.

Didn't you read that the Prophet said:



They spoke Arabic right? That is why they are considered Arabs. All of us know that many of those scientists had different racial origins.

I don't understand what you are talking about.

They spoke Arabic, therefore they are Arabs? Does that mean that all of us, speaking english, are Englishmen and all of our achievements belong to the English civilization?
 
I don't understand what you are talking about.

They spoke Arabic, therefore they are Arabs? Does that mean that all of us, speaking english, are Englishmen and all of our achievements belong to the English civilization?

It's a cultural & linguistic classification, not a racial one.
 
You seem to be a confused individual.

The person we are talking about is this: Mu.

There is absolutely no doubt where he came from, and several of his works were written in Persian.

Even his grandfather's name is Arabic...:lol:

The encyclopedia (British version students), Encyclopedia Microsoft Encarta, and the Encyclopedia of Columbia University, and others - all together identify him as an Arab.

But the historian al-Tabarī gives him the additional epithet “al-Qutrubbullī,” indicating that he came from Qutrubbull, a district between the Tigris and Euphrates not far from Baghdad,1 so perhaps his ancestors, rather than he himself, came from Khwārizm


* Sources:
1- http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2830902300.html

2- http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2830902300.html

3- ^ Daffa', Ali Abdullah al- (1977). The Muslim contribution to mathematics. London: Croom Helm. ISBN 0-85664-464-1.


4- ^ Karpinski, L. C. (1912). "History of Mathematics in the Recent Edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica". American Association for the Advancement of Science.


5- ^ Boyer,Carl B. (1991). "The Arabic Hegemony". A History of Mathematics (Second Edition ed.). John Wiley & Sons, Inc.. pp. 228. ISBN 0471543977.‎
"The Arabs in general loved a good clear argument from premise to conclusion, as well as systematic organization — respects in which neither Diophantus nor the Hindus excelled."


VS

Abū ʿAbdallāh Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī[note 1] (Arabic: عَبْدَالله مُحَمَّد بِن مُوسَى اَلْخْوَارِزْمِي‎), earlier transliterated as Algoritmi or Algaurizin, (c. 780, Khwārizm[2][4][5] – c. 850) was a Persian.

*Sources:


Mu

http://www.kennislink.nl/web/show?id=116543

:lol:
 
Answer the question. Are we all englishmen?

No we aren't, that's because many communities don't accept people as their own on the basis on language. Semitic communities in the past accepted people as their own on the basis of language & culture. I think even in the Roman empire, people from all parts of the empire would call themselves Romans even if they weren't from modern day Italy. The basis of that was again language & culture.
 
Even his grandfather's name is Arabic...:lol:

The encyclopedia (British version students), Encyclopedia Microsoft Encarta, and the Encyclopedia of Columbia University, and others - all together identify him as an Arab.

But the historian al-Tabarī gives him the additional epithet “al-Qutrubbullī,” indicating that he came from Qutrubbull, a district between the Tigris and Euphrates not far from Baghdad,1 so perhaps his ancestors, rather than he himself, came from Khwārizm


* Sources:
1- Al-Khw

2- Al-Khw

3- ^ Daffa', Ali Abdullah al- (1977). The Muslim contribution to mathematics. London: Croom Helm. ISBN 0-85664-464-1.


4- ^ Karpinski, L. C. (1912). "History of Mathematics in the Recent Edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica". American Association for the Advancement of Science.


5- ^ Boyer,Carl B. (1991). "The Arabic Hegemony". A History of Mathematics (Second Edition ed.). John Wiley & Sons, Inc.. pp. 228. ISBN 0471543977.‎
"The Arabs in general loved a good clear argument from premise to conclusion, as well as systematic organization — respects in which neither Diophantus nor the Hindus excelled."


VS

Abū ʿAbdallāh Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī[note 1] (Arabic: عَبْدَالله مُحَمَّد بِن مُوسَى اَلْخْوَارِزْمِي‎), earlier transliterated as Algoritmi or Algaurizin, (c. 780, Khwārizm[2][4][5] – c. 850) was a Persian.

*Sources:


Mu

http://www.kennislink.nl/web/show?id=116543

:lol:

All the sources you quoted are laughable, except Tabari.

Tabari, however, also refers to him as al-Majusi, along with al-Khawarezmi and al-Qutrbulli. Did you know that (or do you just copy-paste as usual?)?

So according to your sources his ancestors were Zoroastrian Arabs living in Uzbekistan? That's cool, please let me know more about this interesting group of people.

No we aren't, that's because many communities don't accept people as their own on the basis on language. Semitic communities in the past accepted people as their own on the basis of language & culture. I think even in the Roman empire, people from all parts of the empire would call themselves Roman even if they weren't from modern day Italy. The basis of that was again language & culture.

Nothing of what you say makes any sense. The article is not written by a semite. This is 2012 and you are claiming these people, most of whom never even lived under Arab rule (as I pointed out) and had little to do with Arabs to be "Arabs".

You seem to be arguing for the sake of argument, so unless you have something new to say that makes sense, let's agree to disagree.
 
Nothing of what you say makes any sense. The article is not written by a semite. This is 2012 and you are claiming these people, most of whom never even lived under Arab rule (as I pointed out) and had little to do with Arabs to be "Arabs".

You seem to be arguing for the sake of argument, so unless you have something new to say that makes sense, let's agree to disagree.

Huh, what doesn't make sense to you? An identity formed on the basis of language & culture is simple to understand. Which scientists did not live under Arab rule? The racial origins of the author has not nothing to do with our discussion.

You seem to be trying to discredit Arab contributions. Read up on "arabization".

Arabization or Arabisation (Arabic: تعريب‎ taʻrīb) describes a growing cultural influence on a non-Arab area that gradually changes into one that speaks Arabic and/or incorporates Arab culture and Arab identity. It was most prominently achieved during the 7th century Arabian Muslim conquests which spread the Arabic language, culture, and—having been carried out by Arabian Muslims as opposed to Arab Christians or Arabic speaking Jews—the religion of Islam to the lands they conquered. The result: some elements of Arabian origin combined in various forms and degrees with elements taken from conquered civilizations and ultimately denominated "Arab", as opposed to "Arabian".

Arab people, also known as Arabs (Arabic: عرب‎, ʿarab), are a panethnicity primarily living in the Arab world, which is located in Western Asia and North Africa. They are identified as such on one or more of genealogical, linguistic, or cultural grounds, with tribal affiliations, and intra-tribal relationships playing an important part of Arab identity.

Source
 
Just to make a few things clear. Arabs was NEVER considered as a race historically. This is only a recent extremely flawed phenomenon. That is why if you look in Islamic history you would see Arab "Jewish Tribes" as well. Because once they spoke the language and mingled into the culture they became Arabic.

If we go further back it is the same as well with Ishmael, who was absorbed into the Arabs at the time there and is even nicknamed Abu-Alarab (Father of the Arabs) is Ishmael ethnicity Arab?? So is there even such a thing as Arab ethnicity??

This can also be seen today in the larger Arab World. They are Arabs since they absorbed the Language and culture. To everyone here searching for the ethnicity of the scientists you are making a big fool out of yourselves. If you go to any Arab and tell him you are part of the Race of Arabs he will role on the floor laughing at your ignorance.

Fact is: "If you talk the talk and walk the walk" then you are an Arab. This was the general rule and it still applies today. Searching for ethnicity of certain people is pathetic as such a thing was unheard of back then same as now.
 
All the sources you quoted are laughable, except Tabari.

Tabari, however, also refers to him as al-Majusi, along with al-Khawarezmi and al-Qutrbulli. Did you know that (or do you just copy-paste as usual?)?

So according to your sources his ancestors were Zoroastrian Arabs living in Uzbekistan? That's cool, please let me know more about this interesting group of people.



Nothing of what you say makes any sense. The article is not written by a semite. This is 2012 and you are claiming these people, most of whom never even lived under Arab rule (as I pointed out) and had little to do with Arabs to be "Arabs".

You seem to be arguing for the sake of argument, so unless you have something new to say that makes sense, let's agree to disagree.

I think I have quoted several credible sources, while u are just stating empty and false claims. It wouldn't kill you to read a decent history book. You even claimed that we (Mesopotamians )are not the decedents of Canaan, Babylons, Assyrians, and Egyptians are not the decedents of Egyptians who built pyramids, who are now identified officially and unofficially as Arabs. Not to mention Omayyad, Abassied, and Alrashidon Caliphates which were superpowers at the time and ruled nations that extended from China to Spain. I don't now how much desperate you people are to deny such well known and proven facts.
caliphate+umayyad.jpg
 
Huh, what doesn't make sense to you?

What doesn't make sense to me is your claim that Iranian scientists are claimed to be Arabs by you, something they never considered themselves to be, nor did their own peoples.


Which scientists did not live under Arab rule?

Did you read the comments I made? Go back and read them and you will find them.

I think I have quoted several credible sources, while are just stating empty and false claims. It wouldn't kill you to read a decent history book. You even claimed that we (Mesopotamians )are not the decedents of Canaan, Babylons, Assyrians, and Egyptians are not the decedents of Egyptians who built pyramids, who are now identified officially and unofficially as Arabs. Not to mention Omayyad, Abassied, and Alrashidon Caliphates which were superpowers at the time and ruled nations that extended from China to Spain. I don't now how much desperate you people are to deny such well known and proven facts.
caliphate+umayyad.jpg

I'm not letting you off the hook. I want to know more about these Zoroastrian Arabs that lived in Uzbekistan. Please tell me about them. :cheesy:

Every time I disprove your lousy and ludicrous claims, you come up with new ones. We can discuss your latest claims as well, but in a separate thread. At the moment, I want to know more about the Zoroastrian Arabs from Uzbekistan.

Just to make a few things clear. Arabs was NEVER considered as a race historically. This is only a recent extremely flawed phenomenon. That is why if you look in Islamic history you would see Arab "Jewish Tribes" as well. Because once they spoke the language and mingled into the culture they became Arabic.

If we go further back it is the same as well with Ishmael, who was absorbed into the Arabs at the time there and is even nicknamed Abu-Alarab (Father of the Arabs) is Ishmael ethnicity Arab?? So is there even such a thing as Arab ethnicity??

This can also be seen today in the larger Arab World. They are Arabs since they absorbed the Language and culture. To everyone here searching for the ethnicity of the scientists you are making a big fool out of yourselves. If you go to any Arab and tell him you are part of the Race of Arabs he will role on the floor laughing at your ignorance.

Fact is: "If you talk the talk and walk the walk" then you are an Arab. This was the general rule and it still applies today. Searching for ethnicity of certain people is pathetic as such a thing was unheard of back then same as now.

The only one making a fool out of himself is the one that goes to any extent in trying to attribute the achievements of other nations' to his own imaginary one.

They did not "walk the walk" nor did they "talk the talk". They wrote some of their works in Arabic because that's how they could reach the biggest audience and get the most feedback, just like you or I would write our Ph.D's in english today for the same reason.
 
What doesn't make sense to me is your claim that Iranian scientists are claimed to be Arabs by you, something they never considered themselves to be, nor did their own peoples.




Did you read the comments I made? Go back and read them and you will find them.



I'm not letting you off the hook. I want to know more about these Zoroastrian Arabs that lived in Uzbekistan. Please tell me about them. :cheesy:

Every time I disprove your lousy and ludicrous claims, you come up with new ones. We can discuss your latest claims as well, but in a separate thread. At the moment, I want to know more about the Zoroastrian Arabs from Uzbekistan.



The only one making a fool out of himself is the one that goes to any extent in trying to attribute the achievements of other nations' to his own imaginary one.

They did not "walk the walk" nor did they "talk the talk". They wrote some of their works in Arabic because that's how they could reach the biggest audience and get the most feedback, just like you or I would write our Ph.D's in english today for the same reason.

He is an Arab and it has been proven. Look, I expect almost everything in this life to happen, yet, I have never thought that an Afghani would ever underestimate Arabs and their great history. That is just rich and too much...
 
He is an Arab and it has been proven. Look, I expect almost everything in this life to happen, I have never thought that an Afghani would ever underestimate Arabs and their great history. That is just rich and too much...

Khawarezmi has nothing to do with Arabs or their history. You have "proven" nothing, except your bigotry and chauvinism against Afghanis.
 
Khawarezmi has nothing to do with Arabs or their history. You have "proven" nothing, except your bigotry and chauvinism against Afghanis.

You are lying.

Even his grandfather's name is Arabic...:lol:

The encyclopedia (British version students), Encyclopedia Microsoft Encarta, and the Encyclopedia of Columbia University, and others - all together identify him as an Arab.

But the historian al-Tabarī gives him the additional epithet “al-Qutrubbullī,” indicating that he came from Qutrubbull, a district between the Tigris and Euphrates not far from Baghdad,1 so perhaps his ancestors, rather than he himself, came from Khwārizm


* Sources:
1- http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2830902300.html

2- http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2830902300.html

3- ^ Daffa', Ali Abdullah al- (1977). The Muslim contribution to mathematics. London: Croom Helm. ISBN 0-85664-464-1.


4- ^ Karpinski, L. C. (1912). "History of Mathematics in the Recent Edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica". American Association for the Advancement of Science.


5- ^ Boyer,Carl B. (1991). "The Arabic Hegemony". A History of Mathematics (Second Edition ed.). John Wiley & Sons, Inc.. pp. 228. ISBN 0471543977.‎
"The Arabs in general loved a good clear argument from premise to conclusion, as well as systematic organization — respects in which neither Diophantus nor the Hindus excelled."


VS

Abū ʿAbdallāh Muḥammad ibn Mūsā al-Khwārizmī[note 1] (Arabic: عَبْدَالله مُحَمَّد بِن مُوسَى اَلْخْوَارِزْمِي‎), earlier transliterated as Algoritmi or Algaurizin, (c. 780, Khwārizm[2][4][5] – c. 850) was a Persian.

*Sources:


Mu

http://www.kennislink.nl/web/show?id=116543

:lol:

They should be named alighor's inaccurracies.:lol:






A lie.

Abu Abdullah Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi Alcrdobla, an Iraqi Muslim scholar dubbed as Khwarizmi, Abu Ja'far said that he was born about 164 e 781 m (which is uncertain), and was told that he died after 232 AH after 847 AD) and it was said he died in 236 AH. Is one of the early Muslim mathematicians, where his work contributed to a significant role in the progress of mathematics in his time

He worked at the the House of Wisdom in Baghdad and gain the confidence of the Caliph Mamoun and appointed at the Hikma house, he also was entrusted with drawing a map of the world. And before his death in 850 AD / 232 AH Akhawazrma left many of the books in the science of astronomy and geography of the most important algebra book, which is the most important book written has been translated into Latin in the year 1135 AD has subsequently entered words such as algebra and algebra zero zero to Latin languages​​.

His life

His family moved from the city of an algorithm (called'' Ckheoa'' in the current era, in the Republic of Uzbekistan) to Baghdad in Iraq, And he accomplished most of his research, between 813 and 833 in the House of Al-Hikma, which was founded by Caliph al-Ma'mun. Where Caliph al-Ma'mun appointed him as the head his of wardrobe books, and entrusted with the collection of Greek books their translation. Algorithm has benefited from the books that were available in a closet safe studied mathematics, geography, astronomy, history, as well as his knowledge of Greek and Indian. And dissemination of all his works in Arabic, which was the language of science in that era. Tabari and he calls in its history: Muhammad ibn Musa al-Khwarizmi Alqtrpley, relative to the village of Qtrpl outskirts of Baghdad.

The encyclopedia (British version students), Encyclopedia Microsoft Encarta, and the Encyclopedia of Columbia University, and others - all together identify him as an Arab.

1- ^ Hogendijk, Jan P. (1998). "al-Khwarzimi". Pythagoras 38 (2): 4–5. ISSN 0033–4766.‎

Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
Complete Dictionary of Scientific Biography | 2008 | 700+ words | Copyright
Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
(b. before 800; d. after 847)

Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
(b. before 800; d. after 847)

mathematics, astronomy, geography.


Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
Complete Dictionary of Scientific Biography | 2008 | 700+ words | Copyright
Al-Khwārizmī, Abū Ja’far Muhammad Ibn Mūsā
(b. before 800; d. after 847)

mathematics, astronomy, geography.

Only a few details of al-Khwārizmī’s life can be gleaned from the brief notices in Islamic bibliographical works and occasional remarks by Islamic historians and geographers. The epithet “al-Khwārizmī” would normally indicate that he came from Khwārizm (Khorezm, corresponding to the modern Khiva and the district surrounding it, south of the Aral Sea in central Asia). But the historian al-Tabarī gives him the additional epithet “al-Qutrubbullī,” indicating that he came from Qutrubbull, a district between the Tigris and Euphrates not far from Baghdad,1 so perhaps his ancestors, rather than he himself, came from Khwārizm;

All that can be said concerning the date and order of composition of al-Khwārizmī’s works is the following. The Algebra and the astronomical work, as we have seen, were composed under al-Ma’mũn, in the earlier part of al-Khwārizmī’s career. The treatise on Hindu numerals was composed after the Algebra, to which it refers. The treatise on the Jewish calendar is dated by an internal calculation to 823-824. The Geography has been tentatively dated by Nallino (“al-Khuwārizmī,” p. 487) to soon after 816-817, since one of the localities it mentions is Qiman, an Egyptian village of no importance whatever except that a battle was fought there in that year; but the inference is far from secure. The Chronicle was composed after 826, since al-Tabarī quotes it as an authority for an event in that year.5
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1G2-2830902300.html

I think I have quoted several credible sources, while u are just stating empty and false claims. It wouldn't kill you to read a decent history book. You even claimed that we (Mesopotamians )are not the decedents of Canaan, Babylons, Assyrians, and Egyptians are not the decedents of Egyptians who built pyramids, who are now identified officially and unofficially as Arabs. Not to mention Omayyad, Abassied, and Alrashidon Caliphates which were superpowers at the time and ruled nations that extended from China to Spain. I don't now how much desperate you people are to deny such well known and proven facts.
caliphate+umayyad.jpg
 
What doesn't make sense to me is your claim that Iranian scientists are claimed to be Arabs by you, something they never considered themselves to be, nor did their own peoples.

I never said that some of them weren't of Iranian origins. I am sure some of them might have considered themselves as Persians, Berbers, or Turks. However, the Arab identity is a linguistic & cultural one. This has been explained to you by other members here as well. Don't forget to read about "arabization".

Did you read the comments I made? Go back and read them and you will find them.

I skimped through your posts at that time because I was arguing with another member. I don't have time to go back & read all of your posts again. Just answer the question; which scientist did not live under Arab rule or within the Caliphate?
 
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