The Afghanistan - Pakistan boundary is not a border: Indian Lt Gen JFR Jacob

[ramu]

You wish. But it won't happen. What will happen is that Indian influence in Afghanistan will dissipate, western troops will depart in the near future and the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan by far, the Pashtuns, will dictate Afghanistan's future. The NA thugs currently in power will be marginalized if not lynched. Wait and see.[\B]

India cannot exert a greater influence than Pakistan on Afghanistan any more than Pakistan can exert a greater influence on Bhutan as compared to India. There is a natural sphere of influence for all countries...

As for it being a "nice read", correct grammar and spelling alone do not a good read make. It is littered with utter poppycock of the following variety:

Lets wait and see ...[\B]

About your statement on sphere of influence, true to some extent but we all know that Indian involvement in Afghanistan is a win win for Afghanistan and India. Majority of Afghans want us to stay put. India is too big a country to change its policy based on extremist threat.

Unless, Pakistan want's to colonise Afghanistan and dictate Afghanistan's foreign policy, India will always have a degree of influence on Afghanistan. It is a different matter if the regime is pro Pakistan, anti India and want India to pack up. But I don't see that happening. If you ask me why, I will just say the world is not the same after 9/11. Period.

India's growing influence in Afghanistan is seen as a positive in UK, US, France, Israel, Russia, Saudi Arabia and above all Afghanistan. I am sure I have missed a few countries but that is fine. Unless this perception changes, changing ground realities is not straight forward.

 

[Ahmad]

I cant understand the use of this article. The border between Afghanistan and Paksitan is recognized by the UN. Although there are some people who talk of NWFP to be taken from paksitan and mereged to Afghanistan,but majority dont think this way in Afghansitan. It is purely an ethnic issue and nothing to do with the majority of Afghans(60&#37, especially the tajiks, uzbeks and hazaras who not only never claim on NWFP, but also oppose any such move. Once the governer of northern Balkh province(a former northern alliance commandar called mohammad atta) called on those who put claim on NWFP to forward their case to the UN if they have got anything against pakisan and if they dont have anything they should shut up and let the 2 countries live their lives.

 

[Ahmad]

Funny that Afghans claim N.W.F.P. They should better look after the country they are left with.

You need to educate yourself. Dont say all of Afghanistan, just some specific people have got this idea.

 

[mjnaushad]

I think we got a very good Afghan view on it. So all other can STFU. Its just an attempt to create a new war for the countries which are already effected by years long war. Specially Afghanitan affected by 30 bloody years of war.

I cant understand the use of this article. The border between Afghanistan and Paksitan is recognized by the UN. Although there are some people who talk of NWFP to be taken from paksitan and mereged to Afghanistan,but majority dont think this way in Afghansitan. It is purely an ethnic issue and nothing to do with the majority of Afghans(60%), especially the tajiks, uzbeks and hazaras who not only never claim on NWFP, but also oppose any such move. Once the governer of northern Balkh province(a former northern alliance commandar called mohammad atta) called on those who put claim on NWFP to forward their case to the UN if they have got anything against pakisan and if they dont have anything they should shut up and let the 2 countries live their lives.

 

[Ahmad]

western troops will depart in the near future and the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan by far, the Pashtuns, will dictate Afghanistan's future. The NA thugs currently in power will be marginalized if not lynched. Wait and see.

I know some of you guys sieze every related and unrelated opportunity to bring NA in the middle and as a result insult(or look down upon) the Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazars directly and indirectly. But you should know that it is not Tajiks, Hazars and Uzbkes who want a peice of your land, it is the pashtoons who want NWFP to be taken from pakistan, so dont bring the other ethnicities in the middle. The NA is at least in your side when it comes to Durand line. I suspect some pakistanis know this reality but they simply pretend not knowing it. If paksitan want to have good relations with Afghanistan(and also good image in Afghanistan), they need to abondan their ethnic based policies in Afghanistan and engage with the people of Afghanistan in a positive way rather than choosing one part of the country and be hostile to the other part, that simply doesnt work.

 

[TechLahore]

I know some of you guys sieze every related and unrelated opportunity to bring NA in the middle and as a result insult(or look down upon) the Tajiks, Uzbeks and Hazars directly and indirectly. But you should know that it is not Tajiks, Hazars and Uzbkes who want a peice of your land, it is the pashtoons who want NWFP to be taken from pakistan, so dont bring the other ethnicities in the middle. The NA is at least in your side when it comes to Durand line. I suspect some people know this reality but they simply pretend not knowing it. If paksitan want to have good relations with Afghanistan(and also good image in Afghanistan), they need to abondan their ethnic based policies in Afghanistan and engage with the people of Afghanistan in a positive way rather than choosing one part of the country and be hostile to the other part, that simply doesnt work.

You misunderstand me. I am not voicing an opinion that is against an ethnicity in Afghanistan. There are some Uzbeks who are allied with the Taliban, so I hate their guts... not because they're Uzbeks, but because they are terrorists. Similarly, I have zero tolerance for the TTP pakhtuns. Hope they burn in hell.

My likes and dislikes have nothing to do with ethnicity. However, please note that the reality is that the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan *are* the Pakhtuns, and they have currently all been lumped as "Taliban" or "Taliban sympathizers" with the exception of a few sell-outs, such as Karzai. This is not a natural state of affairs. The Pakhtuns - not the Taliban - need to be part of an inclusive government in Kabul.

As for the Northern Alliance, yes, I do feel that they are bad news. They were responsible for loot and plunder after their entry into Kabul, post Soviet departure, which made space for the Taliban. There is no denying this. They have allied themselves with the enemies of Pakhtuns and the enemies of Pakistan and continue to contribute to the instability of Afghanistan and the region. Not to mention that hardly anyone around the world questions the fact that they are, at the end of the day, corrupt, drug dealing war lords. So yes, I don't care much for this sort of thuggery.

 

[khanz]

lets see if he dare's try change it we've seen what happened before when the afghans tried .He needs to mind his own business pakistani affairs don't concern him.

 

[equiliz3r]

Related to topic

http://www.afghannews.net/index.php?action=show&type=news&id=201

Durand line serves as a line of hate: Karzai
PESHAWAR (SANA) - Dubbing Durand line as a line of hatred Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said he does not accept this line as it has raised a wall between the two brothers.

He said this while talking to the journalists after offering condolence over the death of Khan Abdul Wali Khan.

Karzai described the demise of Wali Khan as an irreparable loss to the whole world, especially for Pakhtuns and other nations in the region. The Afghan president hailed Wali Khan as an unforgettable and towering figure in the region’s political history, who had devoted his entire life to brining prosperity to the people.

The last surviving son of the illustrious Khudai Khidmatgar Movement founder Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan passed away on January 26 after a protracted illness at the ripe age of 89. Wali Khan was not a leader of Pakhtuns in Pakistan alone; he was a venerable figure for all Pakhtuns around the world and that is why I have come here today to represent the Afghan nation in offering condolences to his family,” Karzai remarked. Karzai sympathised with Wali Khan’s son and ANP central president Asfandyar Wali Khan and Begum Nasim Wali Khan. The bereaved family thanked Karzai for showing so much of respect to the former opposition leader, saying it was reflective of the strong bonds of fraternity between Pakhtuns on both sides of the border.

“We appreciate President Karzai’s visit, which really signifies that the Afghan nation and we are like body and soul that can never be separated,” said Asfandyar Wali Khan.

After offering fateha, Karzai spoke of the issues he discussed with the Pakistani leadership during his three-day visit. In response to accusations by some quarters in Pakistan that Afghanistan was inciting violence in Balochistan, Karzai said his country remained a victim of terrorism and thus unable to foment trouble elsewhere. “Unfortunately, Afghanistan itself is suffering terrorism and is unable to create problems for others,” reiterated the Afghan leader, who claimed Pakistan had held out a firm assurance to act against miscreants intent upon creating instability in his country.

Karzai assured Afghanistan would not let any one to spoil the relationship between the two nations. We will not allow any country, any government with whom Afghanistan has relations, to interfere in our ties with Pakistan, or to use our soil against Pakistan.”

About the killing of three Chinese engineers in Balochistan and its possible links to Afghan warlords and Indian consulates in Afghanistan, the visiting leader said his administration was keeping an eye on such elements. He, however, asserted warlordism and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan were a thing of the past.

Regarding the presence of high-value targets in the region, Karzai admitted there was a need to intensify the exchange of information for the sake of stability in Afghanistan. He also referred to the ongoing reconciliation campaign, spearheaded by former president Sibghatullah Mujaddedi.

The Taliban figures, with no links to al-Qaeda or other terrorist organisations, had been asked to return and find jobs in the government or other institutions, said Karzai, who went on to mention the example of Maulvi Arsala Rehmani.

However, he hastened to explain the offer was not for Mullah Omer, “who is answerable to the Afghan people, to the Muslims for the crimes against Islam, stopping children from going to schools

 

[khanz]

thats a pakistani flag flying above the khyber pass and the ONLY kind of one thats been there since it's independence take a look karzai does it burn ???

 

[Ahmad]

You misunderstand me. I am not voicing an opinion that is against an ethnicity in Afghanistan. There are some Uzbeks who are allied with the Taliban, so I hate their guts... not because they're Uzbeks, but because they are terrorists. Similarly, I have zero tolerance for the TTP pakhtuns. Hope they burn in hell.

There is certainly a negative view of the non pashtoons in Afghanistan among the pakistanis, you need to know that non pashtoons make up 60% of the country. Secondly, when you talk about the Uzbeks allied with the Taliban, it is not the Uzbkes of AFganistan, they are from Uzbekistan. You can never see uzbeks, tajiks and certainly hazars among the taliban(although there are a few here and there which is totally negligible.)

My likes and dislikes have nothing to do with ethnicity. However, please note that the reality is that the largest ethnic group in Afghanistan *are* the Pakhtuns, and they have currently all been lumped as "Taliban" or "Taliban sympathizers" with the exception of a few sell-outs, such as Karzai. This is not a natural state of affairs. The Pakhtuns - not the Taliban - need to be part of an inclusive government in Kabul.

As far as i have seen, it is the non pashtoons who are taking all the hit in paksitani forums even if they have got nothing to do with issues such as durand line. You just cant call everybody as sold out because they dont serve the interest of your country, to the afghans, it is the taliban who are sold out. The pashtoons are part of the gov, there is more pashtoon ministers, offcials, leadership, ordinary officials etc from all ethnic groups and certainly from the pashtoons. in an multi ethnic society you cant have everything for one group, favourtism dont work. As per NA, they are the main oppostion group in the country and Karzai's main challeger was the leader of NA. Again, you are avoiding the real issue of Druand line, tell me who wants peice of your land and who dont want? do you ever get my point?


As for the Northern Alliance, yes, I do feel that they are bad news. They were responsible for loot and plunder after their entry into Kabul, post Soviet departure, which made space for the Taliban. There is no denying this.

Eveybody who had weapon did the bad thing. Taliban did it, the mujahideen did it(NA is a part of the mujahideen) I cant understand why you just pick on one party? Hekmatyar did the most horrible things and crimes, Sayaf, Haji Qadir of Nangarhar, the war lords from Qandahar and Helmand, the war Lords from South(Paktia and paktika), the so called NA, Mullah Nabi's men, and all the 7 groups who were based in Pakisan and others did the most horrible crimes, NA was one of them but not the only one. if you condemn one, you should condemn all of them. By the way, it was Pakistan who created the NA and you shouldnt compain about it.

They have allied themselves with the enemies of Pakhtuns and the enemies of Pakistan and continue to contribute to the instability of Afghanistan and the region. Not to mention that hardly anyone around the world questions the fact that they are, at the end of the day, corrupt, drug dealing war lords. So yes, I don't care much for this sort of thuggery.

They allied themselves with the enemies of paksitan because paksitan helped their enemeis, they had to see somewhere to retaliate, as per drug and corruption, again, NA is not the only one, everybody was/is involved in corruption. Isnt your country suffering from corruption? arent your presidents, prime ministers, other officials, ministers corrupt? so why only talk about afghanistan and forget your own country?

And lastely, lets stick to durand line . You should know that NA is on your side in this particular issue.

 

[mehru]

You need to educate yourself. Dont say all of Afghanistan, just some specific people have got this idea.

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say all Afghans want it but the idea is there and i was referring to that.

 

[Omar1984]

Don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say all Afghans want it but the idea is there and i was referring to that.

I dont think non-pashtun Afghanis would want NWFP and FATA to be annexed to Afghanistan because that would mean more than twice the number of Pashtuns will become part of Afghanistan, and the persian speaking Afghanis will be a small minority and they dont want that.

I am leaning towards the persian speaking Afghanis now after learning more about them

 

[Ahmad]

I dont think non-pashtun Afghanis would want NWFP and FATA to be annexed to Afghanistan because that would mean more than twice the number of Pashtuns will become part of Afghanistan, and the persian speaking Afghanis will be a small minority and they dont want that.

I am leaning towards the persian speaking Afghanis now after learning more about them

It might be one of the reasons, but there are other reasons as well, why on earth we should want to take other people's land? Khorasan(today afghanistan) lost its territory not only to the british, but also to the russians during the time of cruel king amir abudul rahman khan. they lost NWFP to the british as well as rich moutanouse region of Badakhshan, Big pamir and Panjdeh to russia(today bigger pamir belongs to tajikistan and panjdeh to turkmenistan), these areas are all persian speaking areas and the land of Tajiks, they belonged to Khorasan(today afghanistan), but Tajiks of Afghanistan have never ever so far said a word to take back those territories. Tajiks dont want Pashtoon NWFP from Pakisan and at the same time they dont want persian(Tajik) Bigger Pamir and Panj Deh from Tajikistan either.

 

[Hammy007]

It might be one of the reasons, but there are other reasons as well, why on earth we should want to take other people's land? Khorasan(today afghanistan) lost its territory not only to the british, but also to the russians during the time of cruel king amir abudul rahman khan. they lost NWFP to the british as well as rich moutanouse region of Badakhshan, Big pamir and Panjdeh to russia(today bigger pamir belongs to tajikistan and panjdeh to turkmenistan), these areas are all persian speaking areas and the land of Tajiks, they belonged to Khorasan(today afghanistan), but Tajiks of Afghanistan have never ever so far said a word to take back those territories. Tajiks dont want Pashtoon NWFP from Pakisan and at the same time they dont want persian(Tajik) Bigger Pamir and Panj Deh from Tajikistan either.

but what about the other areas which this so called afghanistan of the past had???, some time ago the whole lot aghanistan of today belong to your iranian masters??, please put some light on this also. history always changes, the modern day iran, india, etc etc never were like that before. so please dont prove by history lessons that afghanistan in history was always one united country alone before. at some point afghanis were ruled by persia, thus there was no independent afghanistan some time ago.

one word to all those s.cumbags who say that nwfp is ours, we say to them, "son we have nukes, if you want it, come and get it" lol, thats why they even dont want it.

 

[Ahmad]

but what about the areas which this so called afghanistan of the past had???, some time ago the whole lot aghanistan of today belong to your iranian masters??, please put some light on this also.

Iranian masters? Hope you one day learn how to debate with people in a nice and civil way. We dont have any master, we have got good relationship with Iran(better than our relationship with pakistan anyway). During the time of great Cyrus the whole afghanistan was under the control of persian empire, later on the famous dynasty of Tahiryan from Herat, Famous Safaryan from Nimroz and Famous Ghaznawian and famous Samanian from Balkh had iran under their control, these rulers were great people, they didnt rule peopole but served them. then iranian safavids had afghanistan under their control and Nadir Afshar. this is the history of the countries. but in today's world we have got nothing in dispute with iranians. thats why 60% of Afghanistan think they dont have any dispute with the pakistanis as well.