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The 1965 Indo-Pak war

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it is not like that at all...infact '65 was a wake'p call for us...and we did work on them as history beckons.
the point is that did we lose?
no we didn't...why do you forget that it was a war instigated by Pakistan to 'liberate' Kashmir?
what was the purpose of the '65 war?

"Armed infiltrators from Pakistan crossed the cease-fire line, and the number of skirmishes between Indian and Pakistani troops increased in the summer of 1965. Starting on August 5, 1965, India alleged, Pakistani forces began to infiltrate the Indian-controlled portion of Jammu and Kashmir. India made a countermove in late August, and by September 1, 1965, the second conflict had fully erupted as Pakistan launched an attack across the international line of control in southwest Jammu and Kashmir. Indian forces retaliated on September 6 in Pakistan's Punjab Province and prevailed over Pakistan's apparent superiority in tanks and aircraft. A cease-fire called by the UN Security Council on September 23 was observed by both sides. At Tashkent, Uzbekistan, in January 1966, the belligerents agreed to restore the status quo ante and to resolve outstanding issues by negotiation."

from the Library of congress-Country studies
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+in0173)

really sad to know how indians have manupulated history on their text books.. Pakistani superiority in tanks and aircrafts? :lol:
btw let me just make this short.. i dont really like feeding trolls.. they are not just worth the time but i have to do this still..
PA never had a intention of taking over IOK.... because a logic would be 10-1 outnumber force would never invade its bigger opponents' territory... Infact PA relied of armed freedom fighters and it was a miss calculation and thats where the plan really failed..
btw were PA using Abrams in 65 war?:lol: believe it or not... my indian friend once told me us pk had a superiority advantage in 71 war because we were operating F-16s:rofl:
 
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and lpus we held more territory too...when ceasefire was declared.
"The war was heading for a stalemate, with both nations holding territory of the other. The Indian army suffered 3,000 battlefield deaths, while Pakistan suffered 3,800. The Indian army was in possession of 710 mile² (1,840 km²) of Pakistani territory and the Pakistan army held 210 mile² (545 km²) of Indian territory, mostly in Chumb in the northern sector."
from...a Pakistani site.
itsPakistan - Pakistan - History of Pakistan
and
INDO-PAKISTANI WAR OF 1965

ya BullSh1t.. as usual pathological lair indians exaggerating this claim.. i wont be surprised to know if india also included entire lahore sector in this vetdream of theirs.. and oh btw when such baseless claims are made it usual has research as well... non of indian clams have any research..

During 1965 war, India's General Chaudri ordered his troops to march on Sialkot and Lahore - jauntily inviting his officers to join him for drinks that evening in lahore Gymkhana. He didn;t reckon on the Pakistani troops.

"The first Indian regiment that found itself face to face with pakistanis didn't get clobbered," said a report in Washington DC, America. "They just turned and ran, leving all of their equipment, artillery supplies and even extra clothing and supplies behind".
 
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Our Achievement was that we were able to maintain status quo. Pakistan wanted to take away whole Kashmir in 1965 war while India didn't have intention to take the Azad Kashmir or Northern Areas at that time. Fight started operation of Pakistanis and India successfully defended it. So, it's win situation as Pakistan completely failed achieve what it wanted.

lol you are making us sound like we were 10 times more man-powered the india but infact it was the other way round. but still Pakistan inflicted heavy causality on indian side. IAF lost more planes, IA lost more equipments on ground and lol they even left their things behind and ran away.
 
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man u are totally mad.... pakistan politicians try to fool their citizens with all the false stories i think.... and the media their is a kiss a__ of the government. If you are really interested in knowing the truth then search for the details of the war in a site like the wikipedia which is totally nuetral.

i would like to quote some sentences from wikipedia to help u...

* TIME magazine reported that India held 690 mi2 of Pakistan territory while Pakistan held 250 mi2 of Indian territory in Kashmir and Rajasthan. Additionally, Pakistan had lost almost half its armour temporarily.[48] The same article stated that -

Severely mauled by the larger Indian armed forces, Pakistan could continue the fight only by teaming up with Red China and turning its back on the U.N


* Devin T. Hagerty wrote in his book "South Asia in world politics"[49] -

The invading Indian forces outfought their Pakistani counterparts and halted their attack on the outskirts of Lahore, Pakistan's second-largest city. By the time United Nations intervened on September 22, Pakistan had suffered a clear defeat.


* In his book "National identity and geopolitical visions",[50] Gertjan Dijkink writes -

The superior Indian forces, however, won a decisive victory and the army could have even marched on into Pakistani territory had external pressure not forced both combatants to cease their war efforts.


* An excerpt from Stanley Wolpert's India,[51] summarizing the Indo-Pakistani War of 1965, is as follows:

In three weeks the second Indo-Pak War ended in what appeared to be a draw. India, however, was in a position to inflict grave damage to, if not capture, Pakistan's capital of the Punjab when the cease-fire was called, and controlled Kashmir's strategic Uri-Poonch bulge, much to Ayub's chagrin.

In his book "War in the modern world since 1815", Jeremy Black mentions that "Pakistan gambled and lost heavily"

* Dennis Kux's "India and the United States estranged democracies" also provides a summary of the war.[53]

Although both sides lost heavily in men and materiel, and neither gained a decisive military advantage, India had the better of the war. New Delhi achieved its basic goal of thwarting Pakistan's attempt to seize Kashmir by force. Pakistan gained nothing from a conflict which it had instigated.


It was determined later that only 14% of India's frontline ammunition had been fired and India held twice the number of tanks as Pakistan. By this time, the Pakistani Army had used close to 80% of its ammunition.

However, the Pakistani government was accused of spreading disinformation among its citizens regarding the actual consequences of the war.

In his book "Mainsprings of Indian and Pakistani foreign policies", S.M. Burke writes[78] —

After the Indo-Pakistani war of 1965 the balance of military power had decisively shifted in favor of India. Pakistan had found it difficult to replace the heavy equipment lost during that conflict while her adversary, despite her economic and political problems, had been determinedly building up her strength.


The war was heading for a stalemate, with both nations holding territory of the other. The Indian army suffered 3,000 battlefield deaths, while Pakistan suffered 3,800. The Indian army was in possession of 710 mile² (1,840 km²) of Pakistani territory and the Pakistan army held 210 mile² (545 km²) of Indian territory. The territory occupied by India was mainly in the fertile Sialkot, Lahore and Kashmir sectors,[19] while Pakistani land gains were primarily south in deserts opposite to Sindh and in Chumb sector near Kashmir in north.[20]


REMEMBER NONE OF THE ABOVE FACTS ARE TAKEN FROM A BIASED ARTICLE BUT HAS BEEN QUOTED FROM THE WIKIPEDIA:wave:
 
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First of all pakistan started the war in 1965 as part of op Grandslam not india.
The objective was to snatch kashmir from india.

Now the question is why pakistan with smaller forces (in numbers) would dare to attack india which had a multiple time big in size??

The logical answer is with liberal US assiatance in terms of both modern war machinery and training it recieved as a part of centcom gave it enough confidence that it can easlily take on india and successfully execute its missin to seize kashmir from india who recovering from the set backs of 62war with china.And ofcourse there other peperipheral folklore based assumptions that indians were weak meek hindus and their leadership was poor compared to macho pakistanis. Its strange that militray strategists make so inane assumptions...but in indo- pak contexts comparisions are often only skin deep.

Ironically,insted of making any new headway in kashmir,soon pakistan had to show its citizen that its fighting an indian aggression.Now thats some hell of a twist...and the misconception prevails strongly in the pakistni minds till today.
 
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I think war of 1962 and 1965 teach us two separate lessons. First that anyone can attack you. Second that your enemy will always take advantage of your weaken defense due to other factors.
These two wars should also teach India that it should not keep on holding lands that do not rightfully belong to it. But, did India learn any lesson?
 
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First of all pakistan started the war in 1965 as part of op Grandslam not india.
The objective was to stanch kashmir from india.

Now the question is why pakistan with smaller forces (in numbers) would dare to attack india which had a multiple time big in size??

The logical answer is with liberal US assiatance in terms of both modern war machinery and training it recieved as a part of centcom gave it enough confidence that it can easlily take on india and successfully execute its missin to seize kashmir from india who recovering from the set backs of 62war with china.And ofcourse there other peperipheral folklore based assumptions that indians were weak meek hindus and their leadership was poor compared to macho pakistanis. Its strange that militray strategists make so inane assumptions...but in indo- pak contexts comparisions are often only skin deep.

Ironically,insted of making any new headway in kashmir,soon pakistan had to show its citizen that its fighting an indian aggression.Now thats some hell of a twist...and the misconception prevails strongly in the pakistni minds till today.

This is what i like to call the moment of WTF?
this is what i keep on saying.. newer indian generation have been concealed from facts and history.. they have always portrayed india as some sort of tragic hero who fought against all odds.. btw you have clearly portrayed yourself and your fake ego satisfying pathological liar indians.

First of all.. US warned us earlier that they will never ever support pakistan in any war. and their equipments came with condition that they will not be used in any sort of aggression. If we had American weapons (which were 1-2 decades behind) Indian had Superior British, and Soviet weapons.

but the fact still remains.. Pakistan Forces despite being numerically and superiorly inferior to Indian force we still inflicted heavy casualty on indian side and bullied a 10 times bigger foe in front of the world.
 
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This is what i like to call the moment of WTF?
this is what i keep on saying.. newer indian generation have been concealed from facts and history.. they have always portrayed india as some sort of tragic hero who fought against all odds.. btw you have clearly portrayed yourself and your fake ego satisfying pathological liar indians.

First of all.. US warned us earlier that they will never ever support pakistan in any war. and their equipments came with condition that they will not be used in any sort of aggression. If we had American weapons (which were 1-2 decades behind) Indian had Superior British, and Soviet weapons.

but the fact still remains.. Pakistan Forces despite being numerically and superiorly inferior to Indian force we still inflicted heavy casualty on indian side and bullied a 10 times bigger foe in front of the world.

WTF...u said wtf??

ITS PAKISTAN WHO STARTED THE WAR in the first place...

Did india provoke u to a launch op Grandslam?? No not all.

Didnt u get that op Grandslam...ur objective to sieze kashmir by force failed miserably??

Go read some quality history books first and learn to accept truth before calling me a liar.
 
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These two wars should also teach India that it should not keep on holding lands that do not rightfully belong to it. But, did India learn any lesson?

No, but india should be far more cautious before lending a helping hand for the creation of a nation like Bangladesh next time around.
 
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Though the 1965 war ended in a stalemate, I feel India was the Nett gainer at the end of the conflict. Here are the following reasons:

1. Pakistan initiated the conflict with the goal to capture whole of Kashmir - Goal NOT achieved.

2. India retaliated to maintain its territorial integrity - Goal achieved.

3. After 1962 war defeat at the hands of Chinese, the morale of the Indian military was rock bottom. on top of that, Indian leaders had neglected the military completely since independence. Indian army was equipped with old and obsolete equipment and only started re-arming after 1962 wakeup call. On the other had Pakistan's alliance with the west in the cold war had got it the latest start-of-art weapons and training. Considering all this Pakistan was expected to just walk over and hand defeat to India. Pakistan was over-confident at the start of war to defeat India, otherwise it would not have initiated a military conflict to grab Kashmir. But this did not happen in the end.

4. India learnt some valuable lessons from the war which helped 6 years later in 1971. The military doctrine in Pakistan before '71 was that 'the defense of east Pakistan lay in west'. That is to say, in case of hostilities in East Pakistan (now Bangladesh) with India, West Pakistan will capture Indian territories in Kashmir, Punjab and Rajasthan to force India to withdraw from East Pakistan. '65 war taught Indian military strategists that India could checkmate Pakistan in West. This strategy worked very well in '71 and the result is for all to see today. So, if seen in isolation, the '65 war ends in stalemate. But seen from a broader perspective, the events of '65 leads to the Indian military victory in '71.
Another twist to the war of 1965 was that it increased the disenchantment of the Bengalis in East Pakistan with West Pakistanis. During the whole of '65 war East Pakistan was left undefended and Pakistan had concentrated all its military might in the defense of West Pakistan. It was pure luck that India refrained from attacking East Pakistan in '65. This was also one of the reasons that lead to the events which unfolded in 1971.

5. Also, the 1965 war was a big morale booster for the Indian military, which was rock-bottom after 1962 defeat in the hands of Chinese, and gave them the necessary confidence in 1971. For the Indian Military '65 is one of the big military lesson learnt in the learning curve starting from '62 to the ultimate victory in '71.
One more casualty of the 1965 war was the martial races theory.
The 1965 war also stared casting doubts in the martial races theory propagated by the Pakistan military rulers as a propaganda tool to convince Pakistanis that they were stronger than India. As per this theory, One Pakistani Muslim soldier = 10 Indian Hindu soldiers. This was accepted without any questions and so deeply ingrained in the Pakistani military psyche that it was part of the Pakistans military doctrine. All new recruits were drilled with this doctrine. After 1971, there is hardly any talk about the martial races theory :cheesy:
 
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The PAF has 65,000 full-time personnel (including approximately 3,000 pilots) and operates approximately 700 aircraft, including 470+ combat aircraft.

With strength of approximately 170,000 personnel and 1,700 aircraft, including 852 combat aircraft in active service, the Indian Air Force is the world's fourth largest.

So, it's just double. India has around 6x Land, so 6x problems and 6x boundaries.
 
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These two wars should also teach India that it should not keep on holding lands that do not rightfully belong to it. But, did India learn any lesson?

Most important Lesson was that, not to produce something wasteful
 
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The PAF has 65,000 full-time personnel (including approximately 3,000 pilots) and operates approximately 700 aircraft, including 470+ combat aircraft.

With strength of approximately 170,000 personnel and 1,700 aircraft, including 852 combat aircraft in active service, the Indian Air Force is the world's fourth largest.

So, it's just double. India has around 6x Land, so 6x problems and 6x boundaries.

what the fudge? sooo?? is this relevant to 65 war?
didnt PAF face almost 10-1 odds? and still kicked IAF's @ss?
 
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