TF-X Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircraft Projects

[merzifonlu]

I doubt it but I'm confident that we'll beat China. We don't rely on industrial espionage like China does. We built many technologies from ground up.

Aren't we "inspired" by NATO technology too?

Last time I checked, there was not a single university from Turkiye in the world's top 500 university rankings. There were quite a few universities in China. And again, last time I checked, the Chinese did not lose gold medals in the Olympics in the fields of mathematics + physics + software.

I would never trust the statistical data that the Chinese give. Those guys don't give accurate statistical data to anyone except their own governments. Therefore, I do not trust the population data given by the Chinese. Even so, China's population is over 1 billion.

Let's think about it: With a strong training infrastructure and a huge genetic pool, why not build robust and capable military platforms? Even if the first versions of the platforms are faulty, they will be debugging in a short time. The only thing these guys are missing is combat experience. We have this combat experience and it is reflected in our products. This is our only advantage. That's it for now!

At this rate, the USA and Japan will enable the Chinese to acquire that missing combat experience! If the USA and Japan do can not destroy China with one hit, China eventually will cut Japan into tiny little pieces and make a star from each of them, as Nasreddin Hodja said. What kind of platforms do you think they will produce, especially after they gain that combat experience? I think they will produce very robust and capable platforms.

Baseless self-confidence only makes us look ridiculous. It's not necessary. Let's talk about what we do, not what we will do!

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[LegionnairE]

Last time I checked, there was not a single university from Turkiye in the world's top 500 university rankings. There were quite a few universities in China. And again, last time I checked, the Chinese did not lose gold medals in the Olympics in the fields of mathematics + physics + software.

I would never trust the statistical data that the Chinese give. Those guys don't give accurate statistical data to anyone except their own governments. Therefore, I do not trust the population data given by the Chinese. Even so, China's population is over 1 billion.

Let's think about it: With a strong training infrastructure and a huge genetic pool, why not build robust and capable military platforms? Even if the first versions of the platforms are faulty, they will be debugging in a short time. The only thing these guys are missing is combat experience.

At this rate, the USA and Japan will enable the Chinese to acquire that missing combat experience! If the USA and Japan do can not destroy China with one hit, China eventually will cut Japan into tiny little pieces and make a star from each of them, as Nasreddin Hodja said. What kind of platforms do you think they will produce, especially after they gain that combat experience? I think they will produce very robust and capable platforms.

Baseless self-confidence only makes us look ridiculous. It's not necessary. Let's talk about what we do, not what we will do!

None of it matters, If we looked at the Greek economy, If we looked at the population statistics etc. we would conclude that Greece should have a comparable defence industry to Turkey.
Spoiler alert: They don't.

It matters not if they have 1 billion or 15 billion populace. If it mattered India would be a superpower too and Israel would be a failed state like Syria.

I have full confidence in TFX. I think we have what it takes to make it happen and beat the J-20. Only question is when.

 

[renhai]

Chinese fanboy was hurt by comment in Turkish forum ?

Chinese fanboy J20 is a counterfeit F22

J35 is counterfeit F35

hell even the name is counterfeit even you steal the 35

Oh, so. Turkey's TFX is 100% a copy of China's J-31.

Turkish UAV is 100% copy of China's AVIC Dark Sword.

Türkiye's missiles are 100% copy of China's rockets.

Turkey's TF-2000 is a 100% copy of China's type 055.

But the question is why do Turkey fans think that "Turkey's replica" can win "Korea's replica"? And the final "Turkey replica" can win the J-20?

Aren't we "inspired" by NATO technology too?

Last time I checked, there was not a single university from Turkiye in the world's top 500 university rankings. There were quite a few universities in China. And again, last time I checked, the Chinese did not lose gold medals in the Olympics in the fields of mathematics + physics + software.

I would never trust the statistical data that the Chinese give. Those guys don't give accurate statistical data to anyone except their own governments. Therefore, I do not trust the population data given by the Chinese. Even so, China's population is over 1 billion.

Let's think about it: With a strong training infrastructure and a huge genetic pool, why not build robust and capable military platforms? Even if the first versions of the platforms are faulty, they will be debugging in a short time. The only thing these guys are missing is combat experience. We have this combat experience and it is reflected in our products. This is our only advantage. That's it for now!

At this rate, the USA and Japan will enable the Chinese to acquire that missing combat experience! If the USA and Japan do can not destroy China with one hit, China eventually will cut Japan into tiny little pieces and make a star from each of them, as Nasreddin Hodja said. What kind of platforms do you think they will produce, especially after they gain that combat experience? I think they will produce very robust and capable platforms.

Baseless self-confidence only makes us look ridiculous. It's not necessary. Let's talk about what we do, not what we will do!

QS World University Rankings 2022

Discover the world’s top universities. Explore the QS World University Rankings® 2022.

www.topuniversities.com

A group of agricultural countries relying on Chinese technology talk about "copy"? lol

@aziqbal

None of it matters, If we looked at the Greek economy, If we looked at the population statistics etc. we would conclude that Greece should have a comparable defence industry to Turkey.
Spoiler alert: They don't.

It matters not if they have 1 billion or 15 billion populace. If it mattered India would be a superpower too and Israel would be a failed state like Syria.

I have full confidence in TFX. I think we have what it takes to make it happen and beat the J-20. Only question is when.

Can TFX beat KF-21? Why? Are you better at boasting than Koreans?

 

[renhai]

Exactly. They're both untested in real combat. The advantage of the J-20 is that the TFX is still not even finished. But that's it. Personally,I think the J-20 is inferior to the F-35.

What is "real combat"? Do you mean "F-22 or F-35 has real combat"?

But I think the confidence and courage of a group of agricultural countries are more interesting. isn't it?

 

[LegionnairE]

Can TFX beat KF-21? Why? Are you better at boasting than Koreans?

KF-21 and TFX aren't comparable. KF21 is a much smaller plane and not a true 5th generation fighter.

We could consider it 4++ since there are no internal weapons bays.

If the Koreans come up with a different iteration of the plane that can compete with TFX, then we'll talk.

But I think the confidence and courage of a group of agricultural countries are more interesting. isn't it?

That "agricultural" country Greece has twice the GDP per capita of China lol.

 

[renhai]

KF-21 and TFX aren't comparable. KF21 is a much smaller plane and not a true 5th generation fighter.

We could consider it 4++ since there are no internal weapons bays.

If the Koreans come up with a different iteration of the plane that can compete with TFX, then we'll talk.

But the KF-21 can fly.... lol！

What is the reason why Turkey technology is better than Korean technology?

 

[LegionnairE]

But the KF-21 can fly.... lol！

What is the reason why Turkey technology is better than Korean technology?

View attachment 915084View attachment 915085View attachment 915086

It's not the technology, it's the ambition. Koreans decided to go for a less ambitious but a quick & iterative approach. We do things a bit differently

 

[hyperman]

Can TFX beat KF-21? Why? Are you better at boasting than Koreans?

Well the design parameters and goals of each program are different, as of right now the TFX design does seem be superior, as the Koreans were more interested in reaching production first as well as keeping cost low, and cut corners with regards to design. the IRST sensors for example are not stealth, they went down the Russian route and stuck a ball on top of the aircraft. It also doesn't have internal weapons bays, so in that sense the missiles it carries will be exposed and have a greater RCS. There is also the fact that its a light fighter, while the TFX is a heavy fighter, who will be carrying thus a bigger load out of missiles as well as a bigger radar, not to mention that there is both an EOTS on the bottom as well as a dedicated IRST sensor on top in the design. There are still a lot of other factors, but in terms of preliminary analysis that we have seen, the conclusion seems to be that there was more invested in the TFX features and capability wise.

 

[Indos]

Well the design parameters and goals of each program are different, as of right now the TFX design does seem be superior, as the Koreans were more interested in reaching production first as well as keeping cost low, and cut corners with regards to design. the IRST sensors for example are not stealth, they went down the Russian route and stuck a ball on top of the aircraft. It also doesn't have internal weapons bays, so in that sense the missiles it carries will be exposed and have a greater RCS. There is also the fact that its a light fighter, while the TFX is a heavy fighter, who will be carrying thus a bigger load out of missiles as well as a bigger radar, not to mention that there is both an EOTS on the bottom as well as a dedicated IRST sensor on top in the design. There are still a lot of other factors, but in terms of preliminary analysis that we have seen, the conclusion seems to be that there was more invested in the TFX features and capability wise.

KF21 if only has 4 AA missiles in the belly is already quite Stealthy since the missiles are in semi recessed bay ( semi conformal bay). The composit material used is similar like F35. There I have posted the material in IFX thread, first page, using Indonesian Aerospace source.

KF21 is intended to use wingman drone since the start, this is why there is paralel program for Wingman drone developed in Korea.

The plane has already been tested for about 6 months in the air. There are already dog fight simulation and KF21 flying prototypes have always carry 4 missiles in the belly. One of Indonesian test pilot has already stated it as he fly FA50 during the combat simulation.

Look like KF21 is already Stealthy enought and there is now strong opinion not to develop the internal weapon bay but just rely on Stealth wingman drone with internal weapon bay to carry more missiles

The space inside belly previously intended for internal weapon bay will be used for electronics intended to control the Wingman drone.

This I think is quite possible route to take, even later we could make Stealth wingman drone as tanker drone to accompany KF21 and its wingman drone formation for long strike mission, so having larger airframe become unnecessary

https://twitter.com/x/status/1621239727968878597

 

[Indos]

Well the design parameters and goals of each program are different, as of right now the TFX design does seem be superior, as the Koreans were more interested in reaching production first as well as keeping cost low, and cut corners with regards to design. the IRST sensors for example are not stealth, they went down the Russian route and stuck a ball on top of the aircraft. It also doesn't have internal weapons bays, so in that sense the missiles it carries will be exposed and have a greater RCS. There is also the fact that its a light fighter, while the TFX is a heavy fighter, who will be carrying thus a bigger load out of missiles as well as a bigger radar, not to mention that there is both an EOTS on the bottom as well as a dedicated IRST sensor on top in the design. There are still a lot of other factors, but in terms of preliminary analysis that we have seen, the conclusion seems to be that there was more invested in the TFX features and capability wise.

TFX is also developed in stages, the program will not directly developed into 5 generation fighter. Turkish member who spend time in Turkish defense forum will confirm what I said

 

[Deino]

You could add M346 here, also looks very similiar.

Fvck yeah!

Funny how you completely ignored the Chinese guy.

In fact I just found this comparison and I did not add the other ones - neither the M346, nor the Yak-130 and JL-10 - since the three shown above are different: They all use the same F404 engine. whereas the other three are using two smaller engines.

 

[hyperman]

TFX is also developed in stages, the program will not directly developed into 5 generation fighter. Turkish member who spend time in Turkish defense forum will confirm what I said

Well Yeah the TFX is missing 5th gen engines and other elements, but I'm talking about design choices, the Korean development model seems to be to just get it into production asap and as cheaply as possible. I didn't see EOTS on the KF-21 and the IRST wasn't really made very stealthy, its essentially the same route as the su-35 and su-57. Not sure how much stealth is affected with the recessed bays, but when we see 6th gen designs and other essentially try to get rid of any surfaces that would reflect back, the lack of internal weapons bays might be an issue, especially with detection from the bottom. Even the F117 was exposed to serbian anti air when it opened its bays to fire missiles for example.

 

[Falcon26]

It's not the technology, it's the ambition. Koreans decided to go for a less ambitious but a quick & iterative approach. We do things a bit differently

Why was @LegionnairE banned? Such a disservice to the forum as his impeccable views and perspectives richly enriches the forum. Sad to see respectable members hounded out like this while trolls run amok @Deino @waz

 

[Deino]

Why was @LegionnairE banned? Such a disservice to the forum as his impeccable views and perspectives richly enriches the forum. Sad to see respectable members hounded out like this while trolls run amok @Deino @waz

In fact I don't know ... I'm only able to moderate in the CHina section.

 

[Yawm al-qiyāma]

Don't make international jokes. Go to beat KF-21 first. After all, KF-21 can fly now.

I’m not really impressed by KF21 it is nothing special.