Terror attack in christmas market in Berlin

[sankar]

Okay the latest news is that the truck driver who rammed into Christmas shoppers in Berlin was 23 year old asylum seeker Pakistani 'Naved B' who had arrived in Germany just over 11 months ago. For now we will assume these reports are true and frankly we should not be too surprised. I dearly hope that later we find out this news was incorrect but my feeling is this will remain just a wish.

At a personal level I am deeply shaken and this incident will make life even more difficult for us when we say 'Pakistani', it will make life even more difficult for those travelling on the Pakistani passport and it will make the job of defending Pakistan even more difficult. This will give billion Indian's a reason to have Hindu festival on the Ganges.

However all that cannot detract from the fact that there is somethig terribly wrong at the very heart of Pakistani society when a migrant refugee only 23 years old after having been given a refuge by Germany - a country Pakistan has no issues with whatsoever decides just 11 months after arriving there to ram a articulated truck into innocent women and children.

This thread is not about finding external blames. No it is time to take stock and own up to the fact that there is evil being nurtured inside Pakistan and this Naved carried that evil with him to Germany. Political and hate murders are common in Pakistan and this incident is only significant because it was exported abroad. Otherwise these hate crimes happen in Pakistan more often then it rains.

This is a serious thread and I don't want deflection, trying to find outsiders to blame, try to blame India. It is time for introspection and solutions to purge the hate inside the country that spilled over to Berlin. We have to accept that Pakistani society is infected with a disease. We have to look at the aetiology of this problem and suggest solution to tackle this malignancy.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...tack-suspect-named-23-year-old-asylum-seeker/

@Arsalan @niaz @AgNoStiC MuSliM @Sinopakfriend @haviZsultan

Man, now you're talking. Certainly if this happens at all levels in Pakistan, I am sure one day Pakistan will develope in all fields.

 

[SBD-3]

Revenge for what though? For allowing million plus refugees? In case of Pakistanis, they are inmigrants who toke advantage of generous German aid for refugees.

Revenge for the German role in conspiracy theories that are fed. Could be anything, could be a lack of economic opportunity, could be somehow linked to Aleppo, could be linked to Ahmadis, could be the anger at German public's attitude towards the on going conflicts. A mind that's been fed fire, only looks for reasons to comply the beliefs. If a seed of extremism is sown in a mind, it would eventually come out in one way or another. An asylum seeker going haywire is important, such person has supposedly shed Pakistan to save life (I'm brushing aside the general abuse of asylum by Pakistanis).

 

[Penguin]

Navid B. aka David aka Naved B. Born January 1st, 1993 , in Turbat, Pakistan. Travelled to Germany in February, where he got a residence permit on June 2nd 2016. At least, that's according to the news here, which in turn refers to German 'security sources'.

Source: https://defence.pk/threads/terror-attack-in-christmas-market-in-berlin.467681/page-20#ixzz4TNZa78GP

 

[Windjammer]

It's a heinous crime at best of times even more brutal at this time of year.
What's more disturbing and mind boggling is the fact that within a year of him arriving in Germany and getting refuge what made him turn into a mass murderer.
Although he is just a suspect at the moment and there's no excuse for such menace but there are a many Afghans running around with Pakistani passports....,.,

 

[Russell]

Ungrateful idiot.

I am also worried about Pakistanis in the U.K....among all Pakistani expats living in the West they seem to be the most susceptible to this sort of propaganda particularly with the influence of Salafism.

It's crazy...you'd think the older generation - parents, grandparents would be the extremists...due to their more conservative upbringing and language barrier...Nope. They worked they butts off to make it in the west...be it a job or a business and buy that dream house and become British/American/Aussie. Yet, their offspring who know nothing but the privileges of the west - all of a sudden feel like they don't belong...and they need to blow themselves up or kill their neighbors to get a sense of belonging...what a load of crock.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

It is surprising and shocking. Germany has done absolutely nothing against muslims/Pakistanis. They have sheltered the most muslim refugees and this is how we repay them. Muslims really need to introspect and question themselves. My full sympathies for the people of Germany. I am ashamed of this act of violent terror and request you to please not judge the people of Pakistan on the basis of this evil mans action.

Unfortunately people will judge us. So they should. We do it all the time. That is how the world is. This feelimngs are same. Disgust, shame and abhorence but all that is not going to addresss the issue.

We must begin by clinically dissecting the cause why Pakistani's are prone to such hate acts where they don't have any beef whatsoever. This guy for petes sakes arrived in Germany 11 months ago. That is less than 325 days. So clearly he was carry something within himself that caused this incident.

I think the problem is in the Pakistani mindset. Funny thing is your post even exposes the problem. It is subtle but profound. It is thought process so benign but so destructive as well. You said -

Germany has done absolutely nothing against muslims/Pakistanis.

Notice how you place 'Muslim' in front of 'Pakistani's'.

They have sheltered the most muslim refugees and this is how we repay them

Again notice what the priority is in your sentance.

Muslims really need to introspect and question themselves.

Again the emphasis can be seen.

This shows that even in your mind at a conceptual level your mind is functioning along a "Muslim and others" model to such a degree that it even supercedes your nationalty - Pakistan. You used 'Muslims' three times and even when you used 'Pakistan' it was relegated to second or subsidiary position. Now compare this with Arabs who will mostly say Arabs and maybe then say 'Muslim' or Turks who almost always say 'Turk' without any other qualifiers.

What does this tell me? Simple. The notion of belonging to a Muslim nationhood is stronger then belonging to Pakistani nationhood. This is bad news and very destructive to Pakistan. Simply because there are over 1 billion Muslims spread over the entire world in over 40 countries. Statistics and probability will mean that there are always going to be ongoing issues in such a large group. By investing into this huge group you end up being contractor for all problems of the Muslim world and sure enough you - Havizsultan might be able to function carrying that load on your head but when multiplied over millions on pakistani's your going to get some with temperament that takes them to go another step further, another step further and finally take the plunge over the top like this guy.

This problem cannot go away unless Pakistani's are reconfigured to think as nationals of a state > Pakistan not nationals of a > global grouping.

As long as this problem of priority - placing Pakistan first is not resolved some Pakistani will keep going over the top and become contractos for global problems. In their case they have not heard of the saying 'charity begins at home'.


@Sinopakfriend Can you please look and give a thought to what I said. Often a outsider can see things better?

 

[Hyde]

Feel free to disagree but the event has been mishandled by the Germans

Firstly they said it was possible terrorist attack, later they found out the driver was polish and the van had polish number plate and changed the terror attack into an accident... Now they discovered the driver (who was possibly polish) also had an accomplice co-driver who is a Pakistani asylum seeker and the event turns back to terrorist attack

The point is, he wasn't driving at that time and why would he just rush into market for no reason. I know there have been similar terrorist attacks in Europe such as the one France few months ago when the drive crushed people on the road but I have a feeling its just an accident... They need to check the vehicle first if the brakes were working or not

Ps: Europe has witnessed countless terrorist attacks but none were conducted by Non-Arab asylum seekers, wherever the Pakistanis were invovled, they were home grown militants

 

[SAS]

You assume a solution exists. It may not.

Admitting that the problem exists is a first step in the right direction.

@on-topic,

I know racists and ultra rights are gonna have a field day but, it's gonna be hard to counter cold hard facts.

I know these people are a very tiny tiny minority but, how can one distinguish between the silent majority and extremist minority.

Unfortunately, the only thing I see coming out of this is eventually Europe will start saying no to refugees and the only people suffering will be genuine refugees.

 

[Hassan Guy]

Well....good thing these extremists are leaving Pakistan....

 

[Abingdonboy]

That's a rumour.
!

It's not a rumour, it is the hopes of some induviduals on here but there is no actual speculation in the media about this.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

And please time for serious introspection and solutions. Not cheap escapism or burying your heads in the sand. I have been a member of this forum for a while and people should know I am a master at obfuscating, deflecting or otherwising confusing issues if I want to but this is a serious thread. We need solutions or else this curse will still be around even in our coming generations.

 

[MaMo]

Whether the suspect is Pakistani or Arab, that doesn't help situation of Muslims in West in any way. In Asia we are Pakistanis, Arabs, Persians, Afgahns, etc. But on this side of the world Muslims are seen as one caste, creed and type.

Besides, this is not about Germany not having harmed Muslims, or them giving refuge to Muslims. Extremists always attack either the softest or easiest targets: Germany is easier to get into than the bigger evils US, UK, etc

 

[SAS]

Feel free to disagree but the event has been mishandled by the Germans

Firstly they said it was possible terrorist attack, later they found out the driver was polish and the van had polish number plate and changed the terror attack into an accident... Now they discovered the driver (who was possibly polish) also had an accomplice co-driver who is a Pakistani asylum seeker and the event turns back to terrorist attack

The point is, he wasn't driving at that time and why would he just rush into market for no reason. I know there have been similar terrorist attacks in Europe such as the one France few months ago when the drive crushed people on the road but I have a feeling its just an accident... They need to check the vehicle first if the brakes were working or not

Ps: Europe has witnessed countless terrorist attacks but none were conducted by Non-Arab asylum seekers, wherever the Pakistanis were invovled, they were home grown militants

Mr. Moderator I don't think ever claimed it was an accident. They've always maintained 'terror-like' attack. I've been following BBC since yesterday and they have never claimed for certain that it was a terrorist attack.

Also, I'm sure it must be shocking that an attacker happens to be your countryman but, the fact remains that some youth of your country are radicalised.

 

[H!TchHiker]

Exactly .. why the fck they allowed him to stay ... as per my knowledge also its against the rules

Yes , this needs answer also..Let wait for details...

 

[Hyde]

Mr. Moderator I don't think ever claimed it was an accident. They've always maintained 'terror-like' attack. I've been following BBC since yesterday and they have never claimed for certain that it was a terrorist attack.

Also, I'm sure it must be shocking that an attacker happens to be your countryman but, the fact remains that some youth of your country are radicalised.

They had. I am driving mostly so on radio they even claimed that the German authorities have confirmed it is an accident when the traces were all going to Poland.

I am nobody to judge between right and wrong and I am sure German authorities are more aware of the facts and will bring culprits to justice. I also believe that it takes time to gather facts and their latest observation may have weight into it. Pakistan have a history of producing violent creatures so its nothing as shocking however there have been very few Pakistanis ever invovled in terror activties in Europe. May the culprit be given the worst punishment possible and I do hope they will release the guy if he truly is an innocent