Tejas far behind competitors, not enough to protect Indian skies: IAF

[GURU DUTT]

Block 3 will be revealed in 2019 , so on what basis are you saying it doesn't have HOBS , can't fire laser guided bombs ?
JF-17 consists of three blocks : Block 1 / Block 2 / Block 3 .
All Block 1 Aircraft's are now Upgraded to block 2 . ( No block 1 left )
Soon all Block 2s will be upgraded to a new block , we cannot call them block 3 cause block 3 will be little bit bigger in size , they can be called Block 2.5 ( upgraded block 2s) . All these Block 2.5 Jets will have all the things you have mentioned above which LCA MK1 has .
Then In SHA Allah by 2019 block 3 will be revealed , it will be bigger in size , will have HOBS / JHMCS , 10 Hps , new or upgraded engine , composite material usage , AESA , in other words a true 4.5th gen aircraft .

So conclusion is in the end all Thunder block 2.5 ( Upgraded Block 2s) and Block 3s will have all the goodies you have mentioned above ,( HOBS / JHMCS / AESA) , I can talk more about the Thunder program but info is confidential at the moment !
I think every thing is clear to you now ....
3 countries have bought thunders because they know it's cheap and can be upgraded easily . Many more countries are negotiating for the thunder . What about Tejas ? How many orders did it get ?

Forget every thing and tell me does your JF in its current Block have laser guided bombs , or precission guided or glide bombs or BVR (with EL-M2032 & I DERBY ER/DERBY combo)or short range multi seeker head (IIR+electro optical WVR) bombs or missile firring capability(paveway 2 & griffin& spike family) with them or 4 channell digital fly by wire or the 90 degree high off bore sight (HOBS) with Israeli DASH-3 HMDS & HUD with PYTHON-5 & LITENING 3 G3 laser designation POD compatiabily in Tejas MK1 as of now ... YES or NO .... forget what it WILL HAVE im asking what does it HAS RIGHT NOW

Do you see us give a flying fk?? Question is will the LCA ever come? The article is clear, it will be resting in peace.

I was educating your comrade who was obviously ignorant.

does you PAF or your air force planners think so ?


well point is Tejas is last of your planners worries but just out of sher jelousy and frustation pakistani internet fanboys keep making fun of tejas to keep ther egos boosted

now let me give you some facts

we have already tested GaA UTTAM AESA on Tejas but we want a GaN based AESA radar with forward looking IRST sensor and GaN AESA based Growler type EW+ECM+internal jammer suite (already RFI goven and international contest on between ELTA , Raython and Thales for 120+systems) and already thats in works to lower the gross wieght at least by 500-800 kilos

so do you know what it means in a fighter jet which is already most compact and lightest in its catagory with 98% of its skin in electromantic pulses /radar waves cheating carbon compsites skin layered with desi RAM coating with a Y duct that compeltli shrouds the engine and its hot parts/blades from front making its over all RCS almost 1/3rd as that of Mirage2000 which is lesser than that of your F16 in clean configuration ... rest you can spculate yourself as LCA also has 7+1 hardpoints (7 weapons &1 pods station) and stull has a decent combat radius of 400 KM in low flight altitude of 6km ... do you know what is the deapth of pakistani air space ... 275 KM maening........

At least we aren’t morons like you Indians who wasted time and exorbitant amounts of $$ on a flying Turd!



It’s that good that it has been rejected by both IAF and IN?

no IAF already orderred 40 MK1 and 120 MK1A and the cabapllitues what MK1 has right now your beloved JF17 wants to have in 2019 need i say more now go and check them like HOBS , 4 chanell digital fly by wire , BVR capbilty or LDP comatiability with LGB firring capbility and PGM or glide bomb firring cpability which tejas is time and again tested in day & night and all kinds of weather and can take of with full internal fuel(2.45) tonne and weapons load 3.5 tonne from a very short runnway from very high altitude runways like those in leh or laddhak to those in andaman or nickobar to those in desrt of bikaner can you JF17 do all that right now .....

reasons that this article brings up
1. low load of 3.6 tomes...wrong thunder load is 4.6 tones block2, might go up in block 3
2. very costly to maintain...wrong PAF has numerously stated that it is very cheap to maintain
3. difficult to operate...wrong PAF says its so easy to operate that staff is 1/3 of older jets and that they didnt even needed a dual seater
4. endurance...may be an issue but PAF hasnt complained yet

as usual you have purely biased opinion ignoring facts
thunder was designed by PAF while tejas was designed by HAL ignoring IAF requirement

LCA Tejas if very small point defnce fighter not a bomber its primary job is air to air engagemnets or defend air bases if ever enemy bombers suceed to intrude indian airspace but it can also perfors supression or enemy air defnce or destruction or enemy air defnce roles or precission bombimgs as a secondry roles and in this age of smart bombs the ammount of load is not important but type of load is and tejas can take 1 LITENING3 G3 LDP and 5 heavy LGBs in a single sortie with 2 WVRs can your JF17 do that think again

 

[vikata]

and pa

i saw 10 posts i could have responded to
BUT whats the point

Fellow Pakistani's we know the worth of the Tejas, so do the IAF and IN they desperately want to get rid of it but are being lumbered by the government for political reasons


The indian fanboys are delusional clowns the IN was involved and throwing money into the pit of the tejas programme for decade's before they got sick of all the delays and sub par performance
They then outrightly rejected the Tejas and changed the perimeters of their requirements so the Tejas couldn't be forced down their throats

IAF wasent so lucky and couldn't claim they didnt want a single engine fighter replacement for their old junk
They just didnt want to replace the old junk with the new tejas junk with its sub par performance, double service time, poor availability and numerous other faults

they have dropped numerous hints, tried their best to get the tejas monkey off their back but it haunts them like a ghost

The indian fanboys are jumping through hoops trying to make excuses for the programme but its becoming pathetic as they lie, make up rubbish, try to attack the JF 17 to justify the crap that is Tejas


indians have got themselves stuck
they have hundreds of fighters being retired by 2030 and nothing to replace them with
Raphael is expensive
Su 30s has its own problems

Pak FA is a dud
AMCA isnt even a realty just words
Tejas turned out to be useless

inducting 100+ single engine f16s or gripens will cost them 10-20 billion

5th gen is a distant dream

Yes, outside bravado india is stuck

and pakistan what does it have ????
all those vintAGE junkies
and blunder which has become orphaned after china rejection
u guys are doing only screw driving and we all know about industrial prowess less talked about better it is

only in a nation which is in quasi sanction state with no money ppl and forces can sing to the tune of blunder
but someone have gone a step further and trying to make blunder aka tin can their main fighter
and the reason is not that tough to get

AUKAAT AUKAAT AND AUKAAT
some air force can only dream about things because most of the western and world class goodies are beyond their aukaat

Except that we are neither offering them the JF 17 and that the JF 17s programme is on track and the jet is growing from strength to strength with its 3rd export order in the bag

bhai kise explain kar rahe ho all are brain inert here

Forget every thing and tell me does your JF in its current Block have laser guided bombs , or precission guided or glide bombs or BVR (with EL-M2032 & I DERBY ER/DERBY combo)or short range multi seeker head (IIR+electro optical WVR) bombs or missile firring capability(paveway 2 & griffin& spike family) with them or 4 channell digital fly by wire or the 90 degree high off bore sight (HOBS) with Israeli DASH-3 HMDS & HUD with PYTHON-5 & LITENING 3 G3 laser designation POD compatiabily in Tejas MK1 as of now ... YES or NO .... forget what it WILL HAVE im asking what does it HAS RIGHT NOW


does you PAF or your air force planners think so ?


well point is Tejas is last of your planners worries but just out of sher jelousy and frustation pakistani internet fanboys keep making fun of tejas to keep ther egos boosted

now let me give you some facts

we have already tested GaA UTTAM AESA on Tejas but we want a GaN based AESA radar with forward looking IRST sensor and GaN AESA based Growler type EW+ECM+internal jammer suite (already RFI goven and international contest on between ELTA , Raython and Thales for 120+systems) and already thats in works to lower the gross wieght at least by 500-800 kilos

so do you know what it means in a fighter jet which is already most compact and lightest in its catagory with 98% of its skin in electromantic pulses /radar waves cheating carbon compsites skin layered with desi RAM coating with a Y duct that compeltli shrouds the engine and its hot parts/blades from front making its over all RCS almost 1/3rd as that of Mirage2000 which is lesser than that of your F16 in clean configuration ... rest you can spculate yourself as LCA also has 7+1 hardpoints (7 weapons &1 pods station) and stull has a decent combat radius of 400 KM in low flight altitude of 6km ... do you know what is the deapth of pakistani air space ... 275 KM maening........


no IAF already orderred 40 MK1 and 120 MK1A and the cabapllitues what MK1 has right now your beloved JF17 wants to have in 2019 need i say more now go and check them like HOBS , 4 chanell digital fly by wire , BVR capbilty or LDP comatiability with LGB firring capbility and PGM or glide bomb firring cpability which tejas is time and again tested in day & night and all kinds of weather and can take of with full internal fuel(2.45) tonne and weapons load 3.5 tonne from a very short runnway from very high altitude runways like those in leh or laddhak to those in andaman or nickobar to those in desrt of bikaner can you JF17 do all that right now .....


LCA Tejas if very small point defnce fighter not a bomber its primary job is air to air engagemnets or defend air bases if ever enemy bombers suceed to intrude indian airspace but it can also perfors supression or enemy air defnce or destruction or enemy air defnce roles or precission bombimgs as a secondry roles and in this age of smart bombs the ammount of load is not important but type of load is and tejas can take 1 LITENING3 G3 LDP and 5 heavy LGBs in a single sortie with 2 WVRs can your JF17 do that think again View attachment 436167[/Q

i saw 10 posts i could have responded to
BUT whats the point

Fellow Pakistani's we know the worth of the Tejas, so do the IAF and IN they desperately want to get rid of it but are being lumbered by the government for political reasons


The indian fanboys are delusional clowns the IN was involved and throwing money into the pit of the tejas programme for decade's before they got sick of all the delays and sub par performance
They then outrightly rejected the Tejas and changed the perimeters of their requirements so the Tejas couldn't be forced down their throats

IAF wasent so lucky and couldn't claim they didnt want a single engine fighter replacement for their old junk
They just didnt want to replace the old junk with the new tejas junk with its sub par performance, double service time, poor availability and numerous other faults

they have dropped numerous hints, tried their best to get the tejas monkey off their back but it haunts them like a ghost

The indian fanboys are jumping through hoops trying to make excuses for the programme but its becoming pathetic as they lie, make up rubbish, try to attack the JF 17 to justify the crap that is Tejas


indians have got themselves stuck
they have hundreds of fighters being retired by 2030 and nothing to replace them with
Raphael is expensive
Su 30s has its own problems

Pak FA is a dud
AMCA isnt even a realty just words
Tejas turned out to be useless

inducting 100+ single engine f16s or gripens will cost them 10-20 billion

5th gen is a distant dream

Yes, outside bravado india is stuck

this is said by someone who were having mental...&*$% just at the prospect of getting su 35
which for your information was rejected by IAF

 

[MULUBJA]

The Tejas requires more man-hours to maintain, cannot carry as much ordnance as its counterparts and most importantly, cannot fly as far as the others in a single sortie. Other single-engine fighters can be effective over a radius of over 500km whereas the Tejas can do just 300km. The radius of action of the Tejas is far smaller, making it less effective.

Who gave you this data? 50 cent gang?

 

[assassin123]

Aye man what are you smoking? And what are these random photos you posting, and about payload even a truck can carry things overload but it's speed decreases, and about MKI being defeated BS, and standoff? Which standoff you are talking about? First get yourself up in the air then nail MKI....

It's a fake story told to them by none other then windy here.
They can't even show a single proof on it ever happening.
Just leave it, let them believe in whatever they want. I guess these fantasies help them sleep better at night.

 

[Indian Jatt]

It's a fake story told to them by none other then windy here.
They can't even show a single proof on it ever happening.
Just leave it, let them believe in whatever they want. I guess these fantasies help them sleep better at night.

I was shocked!!! When did our IAF had a standoff?? And they have so much money that they keep on developing new blocks out of nowhere, I mean hadd hoti Hai yaar bakchudi ki.....or JF17 > Su 30mki??? I mean Kya Tha ye?

 

[Sharky]

Tejas .. the ugliest looking shitty 3rd generation flying coffin which wasted billions of tax payers money.

 

[DarX]

Pakistan had no other cheap option to accept it and later improve it. India is doing otherwise, improve it to certain standard and then accept it and the reason is, india have other options.

Pakistan and India both needed to replace their fleets of MIG-21/F-7 jets. Pakistan froze the design at a stage and then inducted the plane, which is undeniably better than the old MIG-21/F-7 platform. India is still flying the old MIG-21 and spending money on them.

I don't think that is a good approach. What it clearly looks like a state of "analysis paralysis" for the Indian armed forces.

and pa

and pakistan what does it have ????
all those vintAGE junkies
and blunder which has become orphaned after china rejection
u guys are doing only screw driving and we all know about industrial prowess less talked about better it is

only in a nation which is in quasi sanction state with no money ppl and forces can sing to the tune of blunder
but someone have gone a step further and trying to make blunder aka tin can their main fighter
and the reason is not that tough to get

AUKAAT AUKAAT AND AUKAAT
some air force can only dream about things because most of the western and world class goodies are beyond their aukaat


bhai kise explain kar rahe ho all are brain inert here


this is said by someone who were having mental...&*$% just at the prospect of getting su 35
which for your information was rejected by IAF

What AUKAT does India have when it is still flying the MIG-21s?

 

[Indian Jatt]

Pakistan and India both needed to replace their fleets of MIG-21/F-7 jets. Pakistan froze the design at a stage and then inducted the plane, which is undeniably better than the old MIG-21/F-7 platform. India is still flying the old MIG-21 and spending money on them.

I don't think that is a good approach. What it clearly looks like a state of "analysis paralysis" for the Indian armed forces.



What AUKAT does India have when it is still flying the MIG-21s?

We got AUKAT 10X....
IAF is that spoilt brat that has got so many options that it is not able to decide and he is litrally dumb....

 

[DarX]

I highly doubt what you wrote about Turkey being light years ahead of India. Turkey has assembled F-16s we have done that with Russian jets more than even Turkey even completely made Su30. We also have our own 4th gen fighter Tejas which they don't have . India also has a fifth gen program AMCA and another collaboration 5th Gen with Russia PAK-FA /FGFA.
I don't have a cheeky sense of humor as you accused me of but I asked a pertinent question to that certain Turkish gentleman calling India racist profanities .




The report is not bogus neither is the general lying , see India has money to spend 45-50 billion dollars for 400 fighters to replace the old jets by 2030 and no sanctions are on India and OEMs have agreed to make their jets in India If F-16 blk70 is chosen it will be made in India if JAS-39 gripens or the future Gripen NG will be made in India if sufficient orders are given. So what will you choose ??

You know F-16blk70 and the Gripen are the most advanced single engined non stealth fighter in the world and you have 20 billion dollar for this program so the answer is obvious .

What if for example somebody gave PAF 20 billion to buy any aircraft that money cannot be spent for any thing else
what will PAF do will it still go for Jf-17s or will rather order 120+ stealth J-31s to be made in PAC Kamra and inducted in PAF in future.

Non of that it is an excellent small single engine fighter with state of the are ELTA AESA radar and GE engines. Just that it is not equal to F-16 blk70 nor JAS-39 gripen.

This happens to an airforce that has lot of money and is spoiled for choices.

I am surprised at your assessment of the IAF being spoiled for choice and that being the reason for the rejection of the Tejas. Kids are spoiled for choice. Air Forces are (or should be) professional services which make decisions on the basis of comprehensive studies and discussions. If the IAF is resisting the Tejas merely because it sees shinier jets elsewhere, then India has a bigger problem than an under performing Tejas.

Seeing that you wanted to apply this argument to the PAF, what I've seen from every interview that I've come across is that the whole of PAF is absolutely in love with the JF-17. This is because it is a platform that we own and we can develop at will. The PAF is still looking for newer and more capable jets, but they are absolutely convinced that the JF-17 is indispensable because it provides us with an economical and capable force filler, a local platform safe from external political pressures and a jet which we can develop according to our experiences.

The Tejas could've been the same thing if the Indian government and forces had the foresight, but now India has no choice but to spend the extra $40-50 billion on imports.

We got AUKAT 10X....
IAF is that spoilt brat that has got so many options that it is not able to decide and he is litrally dumb....

Hahaha.. It is certainly looking that way now that they are actively killing the Tejas.. That would be an extremely dumb decision..

 

[hussain0216]

I am surprised at your assessment of the IAF being spoiled for choice and that being the reason for the rejection of the Tejas. Kids are spoiled for choice. Air Forces are (or should be) professional services which make decisions on the basis of comprehensive studies and discussions. If the IAF is resisting the Tejas merely because it sees shinier jets elsewhere, then India has a bigger problem than an under performing Tejas.

They seem to think IAF is akin to a teenage girl on her first period!

 

[ranadd]

God so many drivels.

Read english for God sake. Tejas alone is not enough is what the IAF is saying. GOI did not want SEF tender going ahead. IAF is saying why that is wrong? IAF haven't said to this date Tejas mk1a is bad. Heck, it is as good or better than many competing platforms.

 

[Indian wonk]

I am surprised at your assessment of the IAF being spoiled for choice and that being the reason for the rejection of the Tejas. Kids are spoiled for choice. Air Forces are (or should be) professional services which make decisions on the basis of comprehensive studies and discussions. If the IAF is resisting the Tejas merely because it sees shinier jets elsewhere, then India has a bigger problem than an under performing Tejas.

Seeing that you wanted to apply this argument to the PAF, what I've seen from every interview that I've come across is that the whole of PAF is absolutely in love with the JF-17. This is because it is a platform that we own and we can develop at will. The PAF is still looking for newer and more capable jets, but they are absolutely convinced that the JF-17 is indispensable because it provides us with an economical and capable force filler, a local platform safe from external political pressures and a jet which we can develop according to our experiences.

The Tejas could've been the same thing if the Indian government and forces had the foresight, but now India has no choice but to spend the extra $40-50 billion on imports.

Few things
India requires 450+ new jets by 2030s to replace the old retiring ones though some of these jets have had their life been increased through various upgrades including strengthening of the air frame , new mission computers etc.

Now 123 Tejas and Tejas1A has already been ordered so IT HAS NOT BEEN REJECTED.

Out of 450+ jets to be inducted in the next 15 -20 years IAF requires around 250-300 to be single engine and the rest 150-180 twin engine mostly stealth + Rafale.

Future AMCAs will probably replace 250+ Sukhoi 30 MKI already with IAF.

Out of the 250-300 single engine fighters 123 is Tejas (Already ordered) another 150 new single engine fighters need to be chosen for induction .
Now among those 150 it can be either Tejas or F-16 blk70 or JAS-39 Gripen but whatever is chosen will have to be made in India which both Lockheed Martin (F-16blk70) and Saab Gripen have agreed to provided they have majority control over it.
Now IAF after already ordering 123 Tejas wants the rest to be either F-16blk70/Jas-39 gripen as these are more superior than other single engine non-stealth fighters (Tejas/Jf-17/J-10s) in the world and they can afford to spend 15 to20 billion dollars for it. Even you would agree with that.

Seeing that you wanted to apply this argument to the PAF, what I've seen from every interview that I've come across is that the whole of PAF is absolutely in love with the JF-17. This is because it is a platform that we own and we can develop at will. The PAF is still looking for newer and more capable jets, but they are absolutely convinced that the JF-17 is indispensable because it provides us with an economical and capable force filler, a local platform safe from external political pressures and a jet which we can develop according to our experiences.

No doubt about it but you must understand Pakistan knew that it cannot buy F-16s in large numbers like 200 + of them, it would love to buys but budgetary constraints will prevent it . PAF has already worked with China and has used Chinese aircrafts in the past. No matter how much you develop JF-17 would still be inferior to F-16blk70/Gripen same thing for Tejas .

The Tejas could've been the same thing if the Indian government and forces had the foresight, but now India has no choice but to spend the extra $40-50 billion on imports.

Tejas would never have replaced twin engine aircraft as it was never meant to . It was only single engine replacement .

If the IAF is resisting the Tejas merely because it sees shinier jets elsewhere, then India has a bigger problem than an under performing Tejas.

IAF is only resisting buying more than 123 Tejas which it has already been ordered.

IAF wants 123Tejas + 150 F-16blk70/JAS-39 gripen
Indian govt wants 250-280 all Tejas

So they are arguing whats wrong in that IAF said Tejas not equal to F-16blk70/JAS-39 gripen which is true these aircrafts are the best single engine non stealth aircrafts currently in the world.

 

[hussain0216]

So they are arguing whats wrong in that IAF said Tejas not equal to F-16blk70/JAS-39 gripen

IAF saying its not equal is the softest way to try and reject the Tejas.

Tejas is a complete lemon of a plane, IAF hate it and like the IN want to be able to reject it outright

The order of 123 jets was forced on military by government in a pure ego based political decision

Government is trying to force your military into dumping single engine fighter tender and buy only Tejas
Not knowing why military wants to dump tejas.
Military was forced into giving a more sharp response regarding why Tejas is so poor

In reality they pulled their punches and tried to be as gentle as possible

Tejas has been a pure disaster and is a horrible plane

 

[SingaporeGuy]

if anything tejas can be used as a target aircraft to test the anti aircraft systems that india has

 

[hussain0216]

if anything tejas can be used as a target aircraft to test the anti aircraft systems that india has

Its good for nothing else

There is no point in indians listing some B.S list of alleged great things about tejas whether it be hobs or asea or whatever when its all part of a lemon of a plane with multiple failures and shortcomings