Tejas far behind competitors, not enough to protect Indian skies: IAF

[SingaporeGuy]

Ive said this many times and i will say it again, india cannot build anything substantial and credible

India should buy JF-17 from pakistan air force

 

[ziaulislam]

What has your country made ?? Any aircraft from ground up .

if you are talking about turkey, its light years ahead of india, has its own fifth gen program and is actively a partner in a current ifth gen program, has defense exports of 5+ billion dollars..
you even bringing this up is funny, i would say its hilarious

i didn't believe tejas was a poor aircraft at all, I thought like most Indians that its at least at par thunder or even better but this is the first time that i am having my doubts..so there are two possibilities

1. either this report is false bogus report by the media or this general is lying which means he should be court martialed
OR
2. Tejas is truly a maintenance night mare and poorly designed half baked prototype, if thats true the program should be scrapped immediately without wasting more money

Sukhoi's have only one problem and that is the spare parts, they are imported from Russia and other than that it got no problems.
PAK FA episode will come to rest when air Force is given 126 rafales, once they get 126 rafales and another 106 F16's or gripen only then they are going to accept 90 tejas.....it's all drama to force govt to get 400+ planes by 2025...

if all of this is drama than the IAF officials should be court martialed for doing dramas, this is highly un professional behavior to lie to decision makers
if from what i read is true, IAF is backing off PAK FA and tejas completely
this means india should quit the shenanigans and immediately go for gripen/f-16 in ~200 and order additional migs/rafale and look for another 5th gen fighter may be the f-35 as china is "printing" the j20 in numbers, J 20 is atleast considered a true fifth gen fighter by western analyst, at least, all are in agreement that its frontal aspect stealth is undeniable

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

reasons that this article brings up
1. low load of 3.6 tomes...wrong thunder load is 4.6 tones block2, might go up in block 3
2. very costly to maintain...wrong PAF has numerously stated that it is very cheap to maintain
3. difficult to operate...wrong PAF says its so easy to operate that staff is 1/3 of older jets and that they didnt even needed a dual seater
4. endurance...may be an issue but PAF hasnt complained yet

as usual you have purely biased opinion ignoring facts
thunder was designed by PAF while tejas was designed by HAL ignoring IAF requirement

Correct Sir ! Block 3 will be little bit bigger in size , composite material will be used , Engine will be either new or RD-93M will be used , thus it will carry much more than what block 2 was carrying . My friend has already seen the design of the block 3 but he is not sharing cause its confidential

 

[Indian Jatt]

if you are talking about turkey, its light years ahead of india, has its own fifth gen program and is actively a partner in a current ifth gen program, has defense exports of 5+ billion dollars..
you even bringing this up is funny, i would say its hilarious

i didn't believe tejas was a poor aircraft at all, I thought like most Indians that its at least at par thunder or even better but this is the first time that i am having my doubts..so there are two possibilities

1. either this report is false bogus report by the media or this general is lying which means he should be court martialed
OR
2. Tejas is truly a maintenance night mare and poorly designed half baked prototype, if thats true the program should be scrapped immediately without wasting more money


if all of this is drama than the IAF officials should be court martialed for doing dramas, this is highly un professional behavior to lie to decision makers
if from what i read is true, IAF is backing off PAK FA and tejas completely
this means india should quit the shenanigans and immediately go for gripen/f-16 in ~200 and order additional migs/rafale and look for another 5th gen fighter may be the f-35 as china is "printing" the j20 in numbers, J 20 is atleast considered a true fifth gen fighter by western analyst, at least, all are in agreement that its frontal aspect stealth is undeniable

IAF will not accept any govt orders before they get rafales that is the real story, PAK FA needs more money that is where India is with it at the moment, F35 will be a long wait and IAF wants 400+ fighters before 2025, govt would be forced to bow down to IAF requirements, IAF is waiting for 2019 elections and then if Congress comes they will get the 126 rafales they we're promised, F16's are highly unlikely as PAF is in and out of F16 they know everything about it, gripen is not bad either and we can have AMCA together both Sweden and India can operate them or we have a French and German 5 gen coming up....both, Tejas will reach there when IAF gets satisfied, right now they want high end fighters when they have them they would definitely fill the interceptor section with Tejas....

 

[ashok321]

https://www.dailyo.in/politics/teja...ut-iaf-narendra-modi-nehru/story/1/20512.html


The indigenously made single-engine fighter Tejas, now 30 years in the making, isn't yet good enough to protect the Indian skies on its own. This is what the Indian Air Force (IAF) has gently but firmly told the Narendra Modi-led NDA government.

The government recently told the IAF to scrap its plans of acquiring single-engine fighters through the "Make In India" route and instead go for the totally homemade Tejas.

There are only two proven single-engine fighters. They are the JAS 39 Gripen, a single-engine multi-role fighter manufactured by the Swedish aerospace company Saab, and the US-made F-16, manufactured by Lockheed Martin. While the USA has been applying diplomatic pressure on India to go for the F-16s, former defence minister Manohar Parrikar's Sweden visit in 2016 indicated that India was also considering the Gripen.

The Modi government is keen to reduce India's dependence on foreign defence platforms and wants to create a defence manufacturing hub in India. Parrikar, during his short but eventful tenure, ensured that the IAF agreed to induct the homemade fighter, and to be fair, Tejas has received the support of the forces, especially the IAF, which has agreed to buy 123 Tejas fighters, though not fighting fit yet.

India's quest for a home-grown fighter

What the Modi government is doing now has been tried earlier too. Tejas isn't India's first homemade fighter.

Charged by the Nehruvian vision of industrial and economic self-reliance, the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) - a defence public sector unit (PSU) that now produces the Tejas - had produced the twin engine HF-24 Marut, India's first indigenous fighter-bomber in the 1960s. Work for the Marut began in mid-1950s. Kurt Tank, who had designed the Fockë-Wulf-190 - one of the top performing German fighters during World War II - was persuaded by Jawaharlal Nehru to take over the responsibility of making the Marut.

The first fighter was handed over to IAF's Dagger Squadron on April 1, 1967. The Marut proved its mettle in the 1971 Bangladesh Liberation War. Two squadrons of the Marut would fly more than 300 combat sorties during the fortnight-long hostilities between India and Pakistan. Not a single Marut was shot down or damaged by the enemy. By the mid-1970s, the fighter had reached 70 per cent indigenisation. A total of 147 Marut fighters were built before they were decommissioned in the 1980s.

However, the Marut was under-powered and proved too expensive to maintain. And like the Marut, the Tejas too has technical limitations.

The homemade dream and the problems therein

According to those who have given the best years of their life to the IAF, the Tejas is small, nimble, and unique, but it has its share of problems as well.

The Tejas requires more man-hours to maintain, cannot carry as much ordnance as its counterparts and most importantly, cannot fly as far as the others in a single sortie. Other single-engine fighters can be effective over a radius of over 500km whereas the Tejas can do just 300km. The radius of action of the Tejas is far smaller, making it less effective.

 

[Maarkhoor]

sounds like mk2 or the next version become the excuse for poor products. Remind me of Arjun or INSAS. In other word, it is always Work In Progress in India, that's why it took decades to make one thing.

India is the only country who produces second versions without the success of original like Arjun MK2, Tejas MK2, Rustom 2 ...list goes on.....

 

[MULUBJA]

Can we pitch jf 17??

You should have pitch in Bahrain but you prefer to opt out.

 

[PakEye]

Rejecting something considered to be best by world is not new for IAF or IA. They evaluated world's top planes and rejected them. They rejected f16, F15, Saab Gripen, Mig 35 in technical evaluation. They are not satisfied with PAKFA. They do not want even PAKFA. So it is not surprising that they reject tejas. They have the options. They want rafale. so they are not satisfied with even Euro fighter. They do not have the compulsion to choose from whatever junk is available so they keep rejecting even F16, Gripen and even F15. No cheer leader need to very happy about the news. Had those [planes which are used by your air force are offered to IAF, they will not even look at those planes. IA rejected all the world's best rifle in technical evaluation saying that they do not meet their requirements.

Why HAL working in Tejas MK-II are Your IAF is satisfied with MK-II ???

 

[MULUBJA]

Why HAL working in Tejas MK-II are Your IAF is satisfied with MK-II ???

What they have said is bout MK1. MK1 + will have 43 more updates. MK II will have radical changes. NAL is working on MK2. It is to be seen how much is demand once the 40 MK1+83 MK1+ are delivered.

 

[Gurjot.S]

sounds like mk2 or the next version become the excuse for poor products. Remind me of Arjun or INSAS. In other word, it is always Work In Progress in India, that's why it took decades to make one thing.

Products are always improved. What qualities jf-17 had when it was launched ?

Aye man what are you smoking? And what are these random photos you posting, and about payload even a truck can carry things overload but it's speed decreases, and about MKI being defeated BS, and standoff? Which standoff you are talking about? First get yourself up in the air then nail MKI....

Have been reading this forum since few years. What i have understood till now is ..

Who ever fighter jet pakistani pilots ever touches, they become master of it. They became master of f-15's and rafale,EF etc. and now this random theory of jf-17's beating Su-30's.

 

[Jugger]

HAL is not efficient enough to handle advanced programs, they just drag their feet.
It’s better if GOI hands over this project to competent private giants like Tata or L&T.

 

[Indian wonk]

if you are talking about turkey, its light years ahead of india, has its own fifth gen program and is actively a partner in a current ifth gen program, has defense exports of 5+ billion dollars..
you even bringing this up is funny, i would say its hilarious

i didn't believe tejas was a poor aircraft at all, I thought like most Indians that its at least at par thunder or even better but this is the first time that i am having my doubts..so there are two possibilities

1. either this report is false bogus report by the media or this general is lying which means he should be court martialed
OR
2. Tejas is truly a maintenance night mare and poorly designed half baked prototype, if thats true the program should be scrapped immediately without wasting more money

I highly doubt what you wrote about Turkey being light years ahead of India. Turkey has assembled F-16s we have done that with Russian jets more than even Turkey even completely made Su30. We also have our own 4th gen fighter Tejas which they don't have . India also has a fifth gen program AMCA and another collaboration 5th Gen with Russia PAK-FA /FGFA.
I don't have a cheeky sense of humor as you accused me of but I asked a pertinent question to that certain Turkish gentleman calling India racist profanities .

1. either this report is false bogus report by the media or this general is lying which means he should be court martialed

The report is not bogus neither is the general lying , see India has money to spend 45-50 billion dollars for 400 fighters to replace the old jets by 2030 and no sanctions are on India and OEMs have agreed to make their jets in India If F-16 blk70 is chosen it will be made in India if JAS-39 gripens or the future Gripen NG will be made in India if sufficient orders are given. So what will you choose ??

You know F-16blk70 and the Gripen are the most advanced single engined non stealth fighter in the world and you have 20 billion dollar for this program so the answer is obvious .

What if for example somebody gave PAF 20 billion to buy any aircraft that money cannot be spent for any thing else
what will PAF do will it still go for Jf-17s or will rather order 120+ stealth J-31s to be made in PAC Kamra and inducted in PAF in future.

2. Tejas is truly a maintenance night mare and poorly designed half baked prototype, if thats true the program should be scrapped immediately without wasting more money

Non of that it is an excellent small single engine fighter with state of the are ELTA AESA radar and GE engines. Just that it is not equal to F-16 blk70 nor JAS-39 gripen.

This happens to an airforce that has lot of money and is spoiled for choices.

 

[Makarena]

Products are always improved. What qualities jf-17 had when it was launched ?

satisfactorily enough that Pakistan induct it into air force before embarking on upgrade version.

India is the only country who produces second versions without the success of original like Arjun MK2, Tejas MK2, Rustom 2 ...list goes on.....

indeed, that is a weird logic. If your first version still not good enough to be used, why move on to the next version.

to be honest, tejas made more sense in the 80s or 90s, the year they were planned. But for today, it doesn't make sense nor enough for 21st century air force. India is probably better buying the F-16 for work horse. I think it has the minimum capability for 21st century air force.

 

[Indian wonk]

to be honest, tejas made more sense in the 80s or 90s, the year they were planned. But for today, it doesn't make sense nor enough for 21st century air force. India is probably better buying the F-16 for work horse. I think it has the minimum capability for 21st century air force.

Thank you some one being a little honest now Tejas is just not equal to F-16blk 70 made by Lockheed Martin probably the world's largest defence contractor with unmatched experience in making fighter aircrafts which no other company can match. If your airforce has a lot of money and the aircraft can be made in India why not go for the best in the world second best doesn't matter.

 

[Gurjot.S]

satisfactorily enough that Pakistan induct it into air force before embarking on upgrade version.
.

Pakistan had no other cheap option to accept it and later improve it. India is doing otherwise, improve it to certain standard and then accept it and the reason is, india have other options.