Teaching our students to fire weapons is madness itself

[xyxmt]

I can say this with complete authority, Pakistani have lost their mind, I think average Pakistani's IQ is smaller than of a rat now and its going down slowly. Look at these pathetic people, their solution to protect student is to teach kids how to shoot...now these motherF**** dont remember how we they armed "Mujahideen" and how did that turn out.

You people are f'd up crazy, I loose all hope for Pakistan, they are on the way to destroy themself...India is worried about nothing...just wait and watch them destroy themself.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Col. Prohit was humble officer of hindu army, which was arming and training RSS. did that helped?

It was a comparable example... same as you post 'hero honda' example in Pakistan motorcycle thread.

 

[I.R.A]

I can say this with complete authority, Pakistani have lost their mind, I think average Pakistani's IQ is smaller than of a rat now and its going down slowly. Look at these pathetic people, their solution to protect student is to teach kids how to shoot...now these motherF**** dont remember how we they armed "Mujahideen" and how did that turn out.

You people are f'd up crazy, I loose all hope for Pakistan, they are on the way to destroy themself...India is worried about nothing...just wait and watch them destroy themself.

Better live where you are living nobody here is dying to receive his excellency in Pakistan, and please leave Pakistan and its problems to its people with rat's brain (as you prefer to call them) they don't ask you to worry about them, and average rat brain Pakistani is not missing you at all.

 

[Sine Nomine]

I can say this with complete authority, Pakistani have lost their mind, I think average Pakistani's IQ is smaller than of a rat now and its going down slowly. Look at these pathetic people, their solution to protect student is to teach kids how to shoot...now these motherF**** dont remember how we they armed "Mujahideen" and how did that turn out.

You people are f'd up crazy, I loose all hope for Pakistan, they are on the way to destroy themself...India is worried about nothing...just wait and watch them destroy themself.

So please what would have been his excellency,tactics to defeat soviets rather arming "Mujahideen",we all on PDF with rat brain or looking forward for solution from his excellency,the main problem of PDF is today every TOM DICK HARRY is a political,economical and Military strategist over here..

 

[Jf Thunder]

well this IS dangerous

 

[Zarvan]

Well har Pakistani chata hai kay Inkalab aye aur agar us may 30 ya 40 lakh log mar jaye tou koi bari bat nahi,bus un marney walo mai wo ya us ka koi rishtadar na ho......
Zarvan,what Islam,personally i am in favor of sharia but Shia,sunni two sects and last time i checked they have dozens of sub-sects every sub sect having it's own definition of sharia.so whose sharia you will implement @syedali73

95% Peoples on PDF think that war is like enjoying pizza or coffee,those even not have fired a single shot in there life advocate such things...

Whose Shariah question makes me laugh let bring 60 biggest scholars from Salafi and Barelvi and Deoband and Shia and ask them to common points to be implemented

 

[Zarvan]

Oh piss off with this baseless crap. What is secularism? Define it, right here, right now.
And then tell me why it seems to you they are 'opposite'.

When in fact, secularism has nothing to do with Islam or faith. It cannot be opposite or the same as any religion, it has nothing to do with religion.



No we don't live in that God forsaken country. We're sitting pretty here in our large mansions and halls filled with gold, which we didn't earn, Western governments just give them to us, as is our right.

Excuse me, but just what the hell do you think is going on right now in Pakistan?
Are you fighting some aliens? Some army from another continent? You're fighting Pakistanis, you're killing Pakistanis and they're killing you, and they're killing your children. And in case you didn't notice, these vermin were born of us, raised among us, and it is no wonder they occupy our streets and cities, and it's no wonder that people STILL openly support and sympathise with them. If you cannot recognize this I give no hope for winning this war, self-induced coma is no state for a nation to be at war in.

Just what the hell is this if not civil war?



Extremism is a cancer, and in Pakistan is has metastasised many times over. Only fools believe the TTP is the only enemy, they are but a symptom of a much deeper problem. Perhaps civil war isn't the most perfect way to describe from the context the name has taken before. But there can be no victory without defeating the real problem, and so far too many of us have yet to understand and recognize the real issues let alone overcome them.

Also, I don't limit this just to extremism, corruption and thuggery all the same. Issues ingrained within society.

Islam is from ALLAH and has laws for almost everything and even new matters have to be decided based on Quran and Sunnah on the other hand in secularism you keep aside Islam and religion and human decide what law to be made and that is putting human equal to GOD and in Islam that is kufr and shirk and genius ALLAH says in Quran those who don't decide according to what ALLAH has revealed are real kafirs

 

[Jungibaaz]

Islam is from ALLAH and has laws for almost everything and even new matters have to be decided based on Quran and Sunnah on the other hand in secularism you keep aside Islam and religion and human decide what law to be made and that is putting human equal to GOD and in Islam that is kufr and shirk and genius ALLAH says in Quran those who don't decide according to what ALLAH has revealed are real kafirs

I asked you define to define secularism. Do it, now.

Nothing else, give me a technical definition of secularism.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Islam is from ALLAH and has laws for almost everything and even new matters have to be decided based on Quran and Sunnah on the other hand in secularism you keep aside Islam and religion and human decide what law to be made and that is putting human equal to GOD and in Islam that is kufr and shirk and genius ALLAH says in Quran those who don't decide according to what ALLAH has revealed are real kafirs

Take your self made definition of Islam to a different thread and i'll expose evil in you.

 

[Jungibaaz]

I believe you and I agree that it is not only TTP, but you need to understand this also, I come from a very conservative family, and believe me none of my family member enjoys or appreciate the sectarian killing, my father calls TTP dogs. And I am very much sure there are many families like mine in Pakistan both Shia and Sunni. When I say world tried its best it in fact did, but could not achieve what it did in Syria and Libya. There are ills in society, corruption at levels, certain % infested with extremism, but there are also hell lot of people who are silent and understand what ills are there, they know what is wrong and what is wrong, they don't tend to side with anyone except Pakistan and are hopeful that we are going to survive these tough times. Civil war would need a major part of society going crazy, which I believe is not going to happen in Pakistan.

Pakistan has problems which can be solved but unfortunately except COAS nobody seems to move in right direction.

Oh I believe Pakistan will make it through this, in fact I guarantee it to you right now if you're unsure.
But my worry is how long it will take and how much more blood, and Pakistan wasn't made to just endure, I'm sure our visionaries and early Pakistanis had more in mind than just bare survival, we were meant to prosper, and extremism has been hindering progress for a very long time, only in the last few years it became worse and not only hindering progress, but destroying progress and threatening survival.

Pakistanis still don't realise who their enemy is, I ask you, how many people do you know that blamed x and y country, x and y agency before they blamed societal menace of extremism for the school attack? How many of our politicians this time last year would have opposed army operation, do you honestly believe that these people changed their minds about extremism overnight? After one incident, they change their view and entire party stance? No, I don't buy it.

Knee-jerk reaction to one attack by the TTP =/= Real recognition of extremism and society and the will to combat it, even if it goes against delusions we've long held.

 

[Bratva]

Whose Shariah question makes me laugh let bring 60 biggest scholars from Salafi and Barelvi and Deoband and Shia and ask them to common points to be implemented

Do you know what is the concept of Zakat in Shia Fiqh? Or when Zia ul Haq tried to implement Sunni Shariat on Pakistan, Shia's revolted in 80's and Zia ul haq has to exempt them from paying zakat ?

Khilafa concept is also different in Sunni, Shia. That's what sharia demands, to create khilafa right ?

Those common points implementation doesn't resolve core fundamental issues which would be a great hindrance if one sect Shariat is implemented

Seriously instead of living in delusions, have a in depth study of Iranian and Saudi mode of government so you may get through your thick head, these are two parallel Shariat systems which can't be merged together

 

[OTTOMAN]

2. The Law of the country shall be based on Quran and Sunnah and neither any law shall be enacted nor any Administrative injunction shall be laid down that is repugnant to Quran and Sunnah.

Who prescribe sunna?
If we don't follow prescribed sunna... what is the sin in it?

 

[I.R.A]

Oh I believe Pakistan will make it through this, in fact I guarantee it to you right now if you're unsure.
But my worry is how long it will take and how much more blood, and Pakistan wasn't made to just endure, I'm sure our visionaries and early Pakistanis had more in mind than just bare survival, we were meant to prosper, and extremism has been hindering progress for a very long time, only in the last few years it became worse and not only hindering progress, but destroying progress and threatening survival.

I agree and I am not pessimist, it will happen soon INSHALLAH. Its just matter of electing us some sound strong leader with vision and competent team.

Pakistanis still don't realise who their enemy is, I ask you, how many people do you know that blamed x and y country, x and y agency before they blamed societal menace of extremism for the school attack? How many of our politicians this time last year would have opposed army operation, do you honestly believe that these people changed their minds about extremism overnight? After one incident, they change their view and entire party stance? No, I don't buy it.

Knee-jerk reaction to one attack by the TTP =/= Real recognition of extremism and society and the will to combat it, even if it goes against delusions we've long held.

People who are still in denial need to go visit FATA and see for themselves, in fact our Army should have let civilians serve in operation areas so they could know who the enemy is what he thinks about us.

Our politicians were the biggest hurdle in getting the NW op started in time, if it had back then, the miscreants would not have gotten enough time gather and strengthen their numbers. And what do you expect of political parties who have their own armed wings?

I think we need to make public aware of much more, people get killed and they don't even know who their killer is. Things need to come out of secrecy into open, if we want full support from Pakistani awam.

 

[OTTOMAN]

Do you know what is the concept of Zakat in Shia Fiqh?

All of Pakistan knows it... many of my family members declare themselves as shia to avoid automatic deduction of zakat.
However, i lived among group of Pakistani shia for 3 years in Saudi Arabia, and they were sending charity to Iran and Iraq... but you can't call it zakat.
I also have to receive some money back from an insurance company, and they have given me a testimony to sign, where its written i belong to fiq-jaffria and there be no deduction of zakat on accumulated fund.

Or when Zia ul Haq tried to implement Sunni Shariat on Pakistan, Shia's revolted in 80's ?

What did Zia do? now don't chicken out and explain your allegation, with substance.

I think we need to make public aware of much more, people get killed and they don't even know who their killer is. Things need to come out of secrecy into open, if we want full support from Pakistani awam.

Why zardari failed to do it?

 

[Bratva]

I will not blame you or those who belong to your generation for asking this question because we have failed to educate our youngsters about our own history. There was no shortage of liberals or Islamophobes back in the early days of Pakistan who slammed the same question in a hope that nobody will be able to adequately answer this. However, leading Ulamaa of all schools of thought (Deobandi, Barelvi, AhleHadees, Shia) gathered at a convention held at Karachi from January 21 to 24, 1951 and agreed upon 22 points for establishing Sharia in Pakistan. By presenting these 22 mutually agreed points, the Ulema of Pakistan practically left no choice for the legislature but to work on the implementation of Islam. However, it never happened, and in all those years so much dust has blown at the issue that even literate people got confused. Following are the 22 points agreed upon by the Ulemas representing various sects of Islam:

1. ALLAH (SWT) is the REAL Sovereign and Lord of this universe.

2. The Law of the country shall be based on Quran and Sunnah and neither any law shall be enacted nor any Administrative injunction shall be laid down that is repugnant to Quran and Sunnah.

3. This country shall not be based on any geographical, racial, linguistic or any other concepts but on those principles and aims which are based on the code of life laid down by Islam.

4. It shall be the obligation of Islamic state to establish the goods defined by Quran and Sunnah, suppress the wrongs and arrange for the revival and supremacy of Islamic beliefs and for the necessary education of established Islamic sects according to their understandings of religion.

5. It shall be the obligation of Islamic state to strengthen the unity and brotherhood among all the Muslims of the world. It shall get rid of all the means that may give rise to differences among the Muslim citizens of the state due to ignorant prejudices of racism, linguistics, regionalism or any other sort of discrimination and ensure the stability of unity among the Islamic community.

6. State shall sponsor, without any religious, race or other discrimination, the basic needs such as food, clothing, shelter, health and education for all such people who cannot earn their livelihood or cannot do so temporarily due to unemployment, illness or other reasons.

7. Citizens of the country shall enjoy all the rights laid down for them in Islamic Sharia. It means protection of life, property and dignity within the Law, freedom of religion and sect, freedom to worship, freedom of caste, freedom of expression, freedom to move, freedom to gather, freedom to earn livelihood, equal opportunity to progress and right to get benefits from social organizations.

8. None of the above-mentioned rights of any citizen shall be suppressed at any time without any legitimate reason according to Islamic Law and none shall be punished for any accusation of crime without provision of an opportunity to defend and without a judicial decision.

9. The established Islamic sects shall enjoy complete religious freedom within the prescribed boundaries and Law. They shall have the right to educate their followers on their religion. The decisions related to their personal affairs shall be made according to their religious jurisprudence and it shall be suitable to make an arrangement that their own judges make such decisions.

10. The non-Muslim citizens of the state shall enjoy complete freedom, within the prescribed boundaries and Law, to practice their religion, worship, culture, religious education and they will have the right to get decisions on their personal affairs according to their religious law or traditions.

11. It shall be mandatory to abide by the agreements made, with non-Muslim citizens of the state, within the boundaries of Sharia. Both the Muslim and non-Muslim citizens shall have equal civic rights as mentioned above in clause no. 7.

12. It shall be mandatory for the President of the country to be a male Muslim whose trustworthiness, capability and decision-making enjoys the confidence of people or their elected representatives.

13. The president of the state shall be actually responsible for administering the state. However he can delegate any part of his authority to a person or an organization.

14. The government of the President shall not be autocratic but consultative. It implies that he shall execute his duties after consultation with the members of government and the elected representatives of the people.

15. The President shall have no right to govern without the help of consultation after suspending the constitution partially or completely.

16. The organization that shall elect the President shall also have the right to remove him with majority votes.

17. The President of the state shall have the same civil rights as general Muslims and shall not be immune to impeachment.

18. Same law shall be applied to the members and workers of the government and the citizens and the general courts shall implement it.

19. The judiciary shall be separate and independent from the administration so that the judiciary does not get influenced by the administration in performing its duties.

20. It shall be prohibited to preach or promote any of such thoughts and ideologies, which may be destructive to the basic principles of the Islamic state.

21. The various provinces and parts of the country shall be considered the Administrative Units of one state. Their status shall not be racial, linguistic or tribal entities but shall be of administrative territories, which may be delegated administrative authorities under the central dominion keeping in view the administrative convenience but they shall not have right to disintegrate from the centre.

22. Any interpretation of the Constitution that is against Quran and Sunnah shall not be valid.

Mind you, the Ulema who came up with these points were true scholars of Islam and were nothing like the type of political Mullah we get to see today. These people had nothing to do with religious intolerance or violence. Read the names and their affiliations to get the idea:

Allama Sayyid Suleiman Nadwi (President, Majlis-e-Haza); Maulana Sayyid Abul A’la Maududi (Ameer, Jamate-e-Islami Pakistan); Maulana Shams-ul-Haq Afghani (Minister for Education, State of Qalat); Maulana Badar Alam (Ustaaz-ul-Hadees, Tando Allah Yar, Sindh); Maulana Ihtisham-ul-Haq Thanwi (Administrator, Dar-ul-Uloom Al Islamia, Ashraf-Abad, Sindh); Maulana Muhammad Abdul Hamid Qadri, Badyouni (President, Jamiat-Ulema Pakistan); Mufti Muhammad Shafi (Member Board of Islamic Education, Constituent Assembly Pakistan); Maulana Muhammad Idris Kandhalwi (Sheikh-ul-Jamia, Jamia Abbasiya, Bahalwpur); Maulana Khair Muhammad (Administrator, Madrasa Khair-ul-Madaris, Multan city); Maulana Mufti Muhammad Hassan (Administrator, Madrasa Ashrafiya, Neela Gunbad, Lahore); Peer Sahab Muhammad Ameen-ul-Hasanaat (Manki shareef, Sarhad); Maulana Yusuf Binori (Shiekh-ul-Tafseer, Ashraf Abad, Sindh); Haji Khadim-ul-Islam Muhammad Ameen (Al Mujahid-Abad, Peshawar) Khalifa Haji Tarang Zai; Qazi Abdul Samad Sarbaazi (Qazi Qalaat, Balochistan); Maulana Athar Ali (President Jamiat-Ulema Islam, East Pakistan); Maulana Abu ja’far Muhammad Saleh (Ameer Hizbullah, East Pakistan); Maulana Raghib Hassan (Vice President Jamiat-Ulema Islam, East Pakistan); Maulana Muhammad Habib-ur-Rehman (Sarseena Shareef, East Pakistan); Maulana Muhammad Ali Jalandhri (Majlis Ihrar-e-Islam, Pakistan); Maulana Dawud Ghaznavi (President Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadees, West Pakistan); Mufti Jafar Hussein Mujtahid (Member Board of Islamic Education); Mufti Hafiz Kifayat Hussein Mujtahid (Supreme Organization for Protection of Rights of Shia-e-Pakistan, Lahore); Maulana Muhammad Ismail (Nazim Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadees, Gujranwala, Pakistan); Maulana Habibullah (Jamia Deeniya Dar-ul-Huda, Therhy, Khairpur Mir); Maulana Ahmad Ali (Ameer Anjuman Khuddam-ul-Deen Sheranwala Darwaza, Lahore); Maulana Muhammad Sadiq (Administrator, Madrasa Mazhar-ul-Uloom, Khadda, Karachi); Professor Abdul Khaliq (Member Board of Islamic Education); Maulana Shams-ul-Haq Fareed Puri (Main Administrator, Madrasa Ashraf-ul-Uloom, Dhaka); Maulana Mufti Sahab Dad (Madrasat-ul-Islam, Karachi, Sindh); Maulana Muhammad Zafar Ahmad Ansari (Sec. Board of Islamic Education, Constituent Assembly, Pakistan); Peer Sahab Muhammad Hashim Mujaddadi (Tando Sayeen Daad, Sindh).

I generally do not discuss such topics here because many are simply not interested and equate talking about Islam or sharia with violence.

Syed Sahab, Common points does not equate to blanket shariah implementation. What 99 percent of Pakistani wants blanket shariah implementation. Even if in utopian society, e.g. these 22 points were to be implemented, demands would not cease here and dominating sect would push it's agenda of implementing blanket implementation and thus creating deepening schism.