Teaching our students to fire weapons is madness itself

[Sine Nomine]

Perhaps Civil war is exactly what we need, or rather an expansion of the civil war.

Well har Pakistani chata hai kay Inkalab aye aur agar us may 30 ya 40 lakh log mar jaye tou koi bari bat nahi,bus un marney walo mai wo ya us ka koi rishtadar na ho......

Secularism is completely opposite to Islam you can't be both.

Zarvan,what Islam,personally i am in favor of sharia but Shia,sunni two sects and last time i checked they have dozens of sub-sects every sub sect having it's own definition of sharia.so whose sharia you will implement @syedali73

Last time I heard these words, I was worried and I called all those people who said this; fools that would see Pakistan burn.
Good for Pakistan that stupid, careless and bloodthirsty movement failed.

95% Peoples on PDF think that war is like enjoying pizza or coffee,those even not have fired a single shot in there life advocate such things...

 

[syedali73]

Zarvan,what Islam,personally i am in favor of sharia but Shia,sunni two sects and last time i checked they have dozens of sub-sects every sub sect having it's own definition of sharia.so whose sharia you will implement @syedali73

I will not blame you or those who belong to your generation for asking this question because we have failed to educate our youngsters about our own history. There was no shortage of liberals or Islamophobes back in the early days of Pakistan who slammed the same question in a hope that nobody will be able to adequately answer this. However, leading Ulamaa of all schools of thought (Deobandi, Barelvi, AhleHadees, Shia) gathered at a convention held at Karachi from January 21 to 24, 1951 and agreed upon 22 points for establishing Sharia in Pakistan. By presenting these 22 mutually agreed points, the Ulema of Pakistan practically left no choice for the legislature but to work on the implementation of Islam. However, it never happened, and in all those years so much dust has blown at the issue that even literate people got confused. Following are the 22 points agreed upon by the Ulemas representing various sects of Islam:

1. ALLAH (SWT) is the REAL Sovereign and Lord of this universe.

2. The Law of the country shall be based on Quran and Sunnah and neither any law shall be enacted nor any Administrative injunction shall be laid down that is repugnant to Quran and Sunnah.

3. This country shall not be based on any geographical, racial, linguistic or any other concepts but on those principles and aims which are based on the code of life laid down by Islam.

4. It shall be the obligation of Islamic state to establish the goods defined by Quran and Sunnah, suppress the wrongs and arrange for the revival and supremacy of Islamic beliefs and for the necessary education of established Islamic sects according to their understandings of religion.

5. It shall be the obligation of Islamic state to strengthen the unity and brotherhood among all the Muslims of the world. It shall get rid of all the means that may give rise to differences among the Muslim citizens of the state due to ignorant prejudices of racism, linguistics, regionalism or any other sort of discrimination and ensure the stability of unity among the Islamic community.

6. State shall sponsor, without any religious, race or other discrimination, the basic needs such as food, clothing, shelter, health and education for all such people who cannot earn their livelihood or cannot do so temporarily due to unemployment, illness or other reasons.

7. Citizens of the country shall enjoy all the rights laid down for them in Islamic Sharia. It means protection of life, property and dignity within the Law, freedom of religion and sect, freedom to worship, freedom of caste, freedom of expression, freedom to move, freedom to gather, freedom to earn livelihood, equal opportunity to progress and right to get benefits from social organizations.

8. None of the above-mentioned rights of any citizen shall be suppressed at any time without any legitimate reason according to Islamic Law and none shall be punished for any accusation of crime without provision of an opportunity to defend and without a judicial decision.

9. The established Islamic sects shall enjoy complete religious freedom within the prescribed boundaries and Law. They shall have the right to educate their followers on their religion. The decisions related to their personal affairs shall be made according to their religious jurisprudence and it shall be suitable to make an arrangement that their own judges make such decisions.

10. The non-Muslim citizens of the state shall enjoy complete freedom, within the prescribed boundaries and Law, to practice their religion, worship, culture, religious education and they will have the right to get decisions on their personal affairs according to their religious law or traditions.

11. It shall be mandatory to abide by the agreements made, with non-Muslim citizens of the state, within the boundaries of Sharia. Both the Muslim and non-Muslim citizens shall have equal civic rights as mentioned above in clause no. 7.

12. It shall be mandatory for the President of the country to be a male Muslim whose trustworthiness, capability and decision-making enjoys the confidence of people or their elected representatives.

13. The president of the state shall be actually responsible for administering the state. However he can delegate any part of his authority to a person or an organization.

14. The government of the President shall not be autocratic but consultative. It implies that he shall execute his duties after consultation with the members of government and the elected representatives of the people.

15. The President shall have no right to govern without the help of consultation after suspending the constitution partially or completely.

16. The organization that shall elect the President shall also have the right to remove him with majority votes.

17. The President of the state shall have the same civil rights as general Muslims and shall not be immune to impeachment.

18. Same law shall be applied to the members and workers of the government and the citizens and the general courts shall implement it.

19. The judiciary shall be separate and independent from the administration so that the judiciary does not get influenced by the administration in performing its duties.

20. It shall be prohibited to preach or promote any of such thoughts and ideologies, which may be destructive to the basic principles of the Islamic state.

21. The various provinces and parts of the country shall be considered the Administrative Units of one state. Their status shall not be racial, linguistic or tribal entities but shall be of administrative territories, which may be delegated administrative authorities under the central dominion keeping in view the administrative convenience but they shall not have right to disintegrate from the centre.

22. Any interpretation of the Constitution that is against Quran and Sunnah shall not be valid.

Mind you, the Ulema who came up with these points were true scholars of Islam and were nothing like the type of political Mullah we get to see today. These people had nothing to do with religious intolerance or violence. Read the names and their affiliations to get the idea:

Allama Sayyid Suleiman Nadwi (President, Majlis-e-Haza); Maulana Sayyid Abul A’la Maududi (Ameer, Jamate-e-Islami Pakistan); Maulana Shams-ul-Haq Afghani (Minister for Education, State of Qalat); Maulana Badar Alam (Ustaaz-ul-Hadees, Tando Allah Yar, Sindh); Maulana Ihtisham-ul-Haq Thanwi (Administrator, Dar-ul-Uloom Al Islamia, Ashraf-Abad, Sindh); Maulana Muhammad Abdul Hamid Qadri, Badyouni (President, Jamiat-Ulema Pakistan); Mufti Muhammad Shafi (Member Board of Islamic Education, Constituent Assembly Pakistan); Maulana Muhammad Idris Kandhalwi (Sheikh-ul-Jamia, Jamia Abbasiya, Bahalwpur); Maulana Khair Muhammad (Administrator, Madrasa Khair-ul-Madaris, Multan city); Maulana Mufti Muhammad Hassan (Administrator, Madrasa Ashrafiya, Neela Gunbad, Lahore); Peer Sahab Muhammad Ameen-ul-Hasanaat (Manki shareef, Sarhad); Maulana Yusuf Binori (Shiekh-ul-Tafseer, Ashraf Abad, Sindh); Haji Khadim-ul-Islam Muhammad Ameen (Al Mujahid-Abad, Peshawar) Khalifa Haji Tarang Zai; Qazi Abdul Samad Sarbaazi (Qazi Qalaat, Balochistan); Maulana Athar Ali (President Jamiat-Ulema Islam, East Pakistan); Maulana Abu ja’far Muhammad Saleh (Ameer Hizbullah, East Pakistan); Maulana Raghib Hassan (Vice President Jamiat-Ulema Islam, East Pakistan); Maulana Muhammad Habib-ur-Rehman (Sarseena Shareef, East Pakistan); Maulana Muhammad Ali Jalandhri (Majlis Ihrar-e-Islam, Pakistan); Maulana Dawud Ghaznavi (President Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadees, West Pakistan); Mufti Jafar Hussein Mujtahid (Member Board of Islamic Education); Mufti Hafiz Kifayat Hussein Mujtahid (Supreme Organization for Protection of Rights of Shia-e-Pakistan, Lahore); Maulana Muhammad Ismail (Nazim Jamiat Ahl-e-Hadees, Gujranwala, Pakistan); Maulana Habibullah (Jamia Deeniya Dar-ul-Huda, Therhy, Khairpur Mir); Maulana Ahmad Ali (Ameer Anjuman Khuddam-ul-Deen Sheranwala Darwaza, Lahore); Maulana Muhammad Sadiq (Administrator, Madrasa Mazhar-ul-Uloom, Khadda, Karachi); Professor Abdul Khaliq (Member Board of Islamic Education); Maulana Shams-ul-Haq Fareed Puri (Main Administrator, Madrasa Ashraf-ul-Uloom, Dhaka); Maulana Mufti Sahab Dad (Madrasat-ul-Islam, Karachi, Sindh); Maulana Muhammad Zafar Ahmad Ansari (Sec. Board of Islamic Education, Constituent Assembly, Pakistan); Peer Sahab Muhammad Hashim Mujaddadi (Tando Sayeen Daad, Sindh).

I generally do not discuss such topics here because many are simply not interested and equate talking about Islam or sharia with violence.

 

[nair]

That is exactly what's needed.

Perhaps Civil war is exactly what we need, or rather an expansion of the civil war.

What makes you say that this will help????

 

[Sine Nomine]

Mind you, the Ulema who came up with these points were true scholars of Islam and were nothing like the type of political Mullah we get to see today. These people had nothing to do with religious intolerance or violence. Read the names and their affiliations to get the idea:

These Mullahs have done enough damage to us by using religion for satisfying there power hunger and ego..

 

[rockstar08]

@Oscar @Jungibaaz do you guy even live in Pakistan ?? do you know what a Civil war looks like ? and you are wanting a civil war in Pakistan ?? seriously ?

 

[Rana Thakur]

@Oscar @Jungibaaz do you guy even live in Pakistan ?? do you know what a Civil war looks like ? and you are wanting a civil war in Pakistan ?? seriously ?

I seriously don't get it. Is it good to have guns in every house across Pakistan? Is that even legal? Guys like @Horus , i've seen him gloating about having guns in every house and feeling proud about it. And i'm not sure if he thinks these won't be used in case of civil war.

 

[I.R.A]

What civil war? are you crazy world tried its best to make Pakistan another Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria but failed. No civil war here go to your homes. Who is selling these tickets?

 

[Sine Nomine]

What civil war? are you crazy world tried its best to make Pakistan another Iraq or Afghanistan or Syria but failed. No civil war here go to your homes. Who is selling these tickets?

Those peoples who will flee this country in no time if that shit happens but it will not happen we will defeat bunch of Tail Dogs,and Lunatic retard nationalists and sectarian dogs sooner...

 

[OTTOMAN]

Pakistan's idiot planners should focus more on redesigning the buildings with evacuation plan, and relocating 'kachi abadis'

 

[Jungibaaz]

Secularism is completely opposite to Islam you can't be both.

Oh piss off with this baseless crap. What is secularism? Define it, right here, right now.
And then tell me why it seems to you they are 'opposite'.

When in fact, secularism has nothing to do with Islam or faith. It cannot be opposite or the same as any religion, it has nothing to do with religion.

@Oscar @Jungibaaz do you guy even live in Pakistan ?? do you know what a Civil war looks like ? and you are wanting a civil war in Pakistan ?? seriously ?

No we don't live in that God forsaken country. We're sitting pretty here in our large mansions and halls filled with gold, which we didn't earn, Western governments just give them to us, as is our right.

Excuse me, but just what the hell do you think is going on right now in Pakistan?
Are you fighting some aliens? Some army from another continent? You're fighting Pakistanis, you're killing Pakistanis and they're killing you, and they're killing your children. And in case you didn't notice, these vermin were born of us, raised among us, and it is no wonder they occupy our streets and cities, and it's no wonder that people STILL openly support and sympathise with them. If you cannot recognize this I give no hope for winning this war, self-induced coma is no state for a nation to be at war in.

Just what the hell is this if not civil war?

What makes you say that this will help????

Extremism is a cancer, and in Pakistan is has metastasised many times over. Only fools believe the TTP is the only enemy, they are but a symptom of a much deeper problem. Perhaps civil war isn't the most perfect way to describe from the context the name has taken before. But there can be no victory without defeating the real problem, and so far too many of us have yet to understand and recognize the real issues let alone overcome them.

Also, I don't limit this just to extremism, corruption and thuggery all the same. Issues ingrained within society.

 

[OTTOMAN]

What makes you say that this will help????

Col. Prohit was humble officer of hindu army, which was arming and training RSS. did that helped?

 

[I.R.A]

No we don't live in that God forsaken country. We're sitting pretty here in our large mansions and halls filled with gold, which we didn't earn, Western governments just give them to us, as is our right.

Lucky you I never heard of any such scheme

Excuse me, but just what the hell do you think is going on right now in Pakistan?
Are you fighting some aliens? Some army from another continent? You're fighting Pakistanis, you're killing Pakistanis and they're killing you, and they're killing your children. And in case you didn't notice, these vermin were born of us, raised among us, and it is no wonder they occupy our streets and cities, and it's no wonder that people STILL openly support and sympathise with them. If you cannot recognize this I give no hope for winning this war, self-induced coma is no state for a nation to be at war in.

Just what the hell is this if not civil war?

Tell me in past one year what was the situation in following countries, rank these according to most violent to less violent, and please do highlight the difference.

• Syria
• Libya
• Iraq
• Afghanistan
• Egypt
• Pakistan

In my opinion a country that can still make the world realize that without it they have nothing achieved does not somewhat resemble to what you are trying to portray. There is nothing going on in streets of Pakistan, Pakistan needed a right person which it got and now the things have changed pretty much, who is on the run?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Tell me in past one year what was the situation in following countries, rank these according to most violent to less violent, and please do highlight the difference.

• Syria
• Libya
• Iraq
• Afghanistan
• Egypt
• Pakistan

2014? Syria. Number one.
2- Iraq. But mostly confined to some parts in the beginning, ISIS rose only after protests by some factions and government crackdown in 2013.
3- Afghanistan. There is all our war going on there, the death toll is also much higher compared to ours.
4- Libya. Turmoil and chaos, economic collapse, and broken country.
5- Pakistan. The death toll was astounding yet lower than previous years, we also saw the worst incident in this war too.
6- Egypt, much like Libya but not as bad.

In my opinion a country that can still make the world realize that without it they have nothing achieved does not somewhat resemble to what you are trying to portray. There is nothing going on in streets of Pakistan, Pakistan needed a right person which it got and now the things have changed pretty much, who is on the run?

Do you know the state of Syria before the civil war started? I had a few friends visit some 2-3 months before it started, it was completely peaceful, no war, violence, at best some protests, much like the ones we had. It was completely peaceful, you could not predict what was to happen next. You couldn't predict the civil war, you couldn't predict the FSA becoming a thing and recognized state in itself, you could not predict the factions of extremists and their atrocities, even use of chemical weapons, could you then see ISIS rising? Or anything near as bad.

I didn't see it coming. Please believe me when I say that the current calm is not at all representative of what may happen. Do you agree that there is a problem of extremism in Pakistan and not just a war against one lowly TTP? If so, do you not then see a much deeper problem within society itself? Even if on the face of it seems like harmless stupidity?

 

[nair]

Col. Prohit was humble officer of hindu army, which was arming and training RSS. did that helped?

Though off topic, you have any clue where is he now? Do you have any clue who put him behind bars?. Suggest u stick to topic,

 

[I.R.A]

• 2014? Syria. Number one.

2- Iraq. But mostly confined to some parts in the beginning, ISIS rose only after protests by some factions and government crackdown in 2013.
3- Afghanistan. There is all our war going on there, the death toll is also much higher compared to ours.
4- Libya. Turmoil and chaos, economic collapse, and broken country.
5- Pakistan. The death toll was astounding yet lower than previous years, we also saw the worst incident in this war too.
6- Egypt, much like Libya but not as bad.

Yes 2014 sorry I forgot to mention that.

Do you know the state of Syria before the civil war started? I had a few friends visit some 2-3 months before it started, it was completely peaceful, no war, violence, at best some protests, much like the ones we had. It was completely peaceful, you could not predict what was to happen next. You couldn't predict the civil war, you couldn't predict the FSA becoming a thing and recognized state in itself, you could not predict the factions of extremists and their atrocities, even use of chemical weapons, could you then see ISIS rising? Or anything near as bad.

Terror struck us long before it struck Syria, what happened in Syria shows how resilient people of Pakistan have been, you would agree that the day major Pakistani society looses its calm it would be a disaster and end of Pakistan as it appears on map. Shia and Sunni still respect each other, dine with each other, laugh with each other no matter what a Molana says or what an Allama says.

I didn't see it coming. Please believe me when I say that the current calm is not at all representative of what may happen. Do you agree that there is a problem of extremism in Pakistan and not just a war against one lowly TTP? If so, do you not then see a much deeper problem within society itself? Even if on the face of it seems like harmless stupidity?

I believe you and I agree that it is not only TTP, but you need to understand this also, I come from a very conservative family, and believe me none of my family member enjoys or appreciate the sectarian killing, my father calls TTP dogs. And I am very much sure there are many families like mine in Pakistan both Shia and Sunni. When I say world tried its best it in fact did, but could not achieve what it did in Syria and Libya. There are ills in society, corruption at levels, certain % infested with extremism, but there are also hell lot of people who are silent and understand what ills are there, they know what is wrong and what is right, they don't tend to side with anyone except Pakistan and are hopeful that we are going to survive these tough times. Civil war would need a major part of society going crazy, which I believe is not going to happen in Pakistan.

Pakistan has problems which can be solved but unfortunately except COAS nobody seems to move in right direction.