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Regardless, Pakistan captured more land and halted India's invasion in little over two weeks. Nothing you say will change that.
Wrong. It was India that captured more land. India captured 1840 km of Pak territory, Pak captured 540 km of Indian territory(Shadow War: The Untold Story of Jihad in Kashmir,Jamal, Arif, pg 86).
 

No, correct. We've already established that Pakistan has captured more land in 1965 than what is admitted by others, as proven by my pictures of Pakistani troops in Munabao and Krishenagrh despite India denying that such land was ever captured.
 
No, correct. We've already established that Pakistan has captured more land in 1965 than what is admitted by others, as proven by my pictures of Pakistani troops in Munabao and Krishenagrh despite India denying that such land was ever captured.
Both of those are literally right next to the IB
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munabao
The Krishenagarh fort is only 145 km away from the border

https://www.dnaindia.com/jaipur/report-apathy-to-bring-kishangarh-fort-to-ruin-2716675
 
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The fact that you don't know the difference between area and length is quite sad.
India captured Dograi and Barki, which are actually farther from the IB than both of the places you mentioned
https://www.google.com/maps/place/D...kistan/@31.5541988,69.960351,6z/data=!4m5!3m4
https://www.google.com/maps/place/B...tan/@31.5025567,70.0262066,6z/data=!4m5!3m4!1


Munabao
https://www.google.com/maps/place/M...,+India/@29.1882684,69.7832091,6.99z/data=!4m

India also captured Haj Pir Pass in AJK
https://www.google.com/maps/place/H...7383bfaa9987929!8m2!3d33.9666667!4d74.0833333
The Kishanagarh fort is in Jaisalmer district, which borders the district Munabao is in. You should know area is measured by length times width. How can you claim to have captured a larger area when both the length AND width of the areas you captured are smaller than what we captured? remember that literally every neautral source available contradicts you view.
 
Area is more than just length.



Except it wasn't.



No, it's literally not "every".
Can you provide a neutral source? So far I have been providing sources, it would be nice if you would provide some as well, especially since you are making the claims.

And btw winnign wars is more than just capturing territory, you can make an arguement that Pakistan achieved its objectives despite losing more territory. But i have yet tosee a single source that supports your claim.
 
Can you provide a neutral source?

1. There is no such thing as a neutral source.
2. I have provided multiple sources and there are many more for you to look up online.

winnign wars is more than just capturing territory

Correct, but even then India still lost. It's invasion was repulsed in little over 2 weeks, and at one point your army was sh!tting itself thinking that Pakistan might take Delhi.
 
In aftermaths of 'Parliament Attacks'; such plan was already on table and India's business men forced their government for de-escalation.


Agreed ... in 1971 India did blow up Karachi refinery.
On the other hand, as per Indian narrative, Ajmal Kassab did breach to the 'so called non-penetrative' coastal defences.
When time comes, we will demonstrate our abilities - In-sha-Allah.
On first hand, we should pray that such time should not happen and peace should prevail - In-sha-Allah.

They did not blow up Karachi refinery.
2 large Oil tanks on Keamari were hit and they burned for 2 days.

@Rashid Mahmood @HRK @Horus @MastanKhan
@Tps43 @Signalian

How would India protect it's offshore oil rigs, if they were targeted with stand off weapons / cruise missiles?


They can't.
We have them mapped alongwith the undersea pipes.
 
1. There is no such thing as a neutral source.
2. I have provided multiple sources and there are many more for you to look up online.



Correct, but even then India still lost. It's invasion was repulsed in little over 2 weeks, and at one point your army was sh!tting itself thinking that Pakistan might take Delhi.
And what started this all? It was your operation Gibralter, which was supposed to capture Kashmir from India. PM Shashtri knew that there were not sufficient troops in Kashmir to hold of a Pakistani invasion, so he ordered an attack on the Lahore Sector to divert Pakistani troops from Kashmir. Pakistan was forced to divert its army to the defense of Lahore, and India was able to capture Hajj Pir Pass, securing its position. Pakistan then launched a counter offensive in Indian Punjab(Khem Karan, which was unsuccessful), and Rajasthan. In the end, Pakistan came no closer to capturing Kashmir than it had before. It wasn't a complete victory for India, but it was by no means a Pakistani victory.
 
operation Gibralter,

That occurred before the war started. The war started when India crossed the IB on the 6th of September, Gibraltar was just part of the pre-war escalation just like the Rann of Kutch incident was.

India was able to capture Hajj Pir Pass

And Pakistan was able to capture large quantities of land down south and in Kashmir too. Your own army literally panicked that Pakistan would be able to march right into Delhi.

It wasn't a complete victory for India, but it was by no means a Pakistani victory.

Yes it was, Pakistan halted India's invasion in little over two weeks and managed to reverse it, again, your own army panicked that Pakistan would take Delhi. Not to mention the fact that Pakistan managed to do this whilst being heavily outnumbered (far more so than it is today), and made many great achievements (e.g won the largest tank battle since WW2/2nd largest tank battle in history, MM Alam holds the world record for the most aircraft shot down in under a minute, etc). For goodness sake, your own PM died of a heart attack in Tashkent!

"Pakistan claims to have destroyed something like 1/3rd the Indian Air Force, and foreign observers, who are in a position to know say that Pakistani pilots have claimed even higher kills than this; but the Pakistani Air Force are being scrupulously honest in evaluating these claims. They are crediting Pakistan Air Force only those killings that can be checked from other sources."

Roy Meloni,
American Broadcasting Corporation
September 15, 1965.

The London Daily Mirror reported in 1965:

"There is a smell of death in the burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that India's attacking forces came to a dead stop.

"During the night they threw in every reinforcement they could find. But wave after wave of attacks were repulsed by the Pakistanis"


USA - Aviation week & space technology - December 1968 issue.

"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.

1965 War, the Inside Story by R.D. Pradhan:

In Chapter 8 titled "Of Cowardice and Panic", the author describes the cowardice of Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad, the Indian general commanding officer in Lahore sector. When the general was fired upon by Pakistani forces, he "ran away". "On learning that, Lt. Gen. Harbakash Singh and the corps commander drove in a Jonga to the battlefront. Army commander found that the enemy (PAF) air attack had created a havoc on G.T. Road. (Indian) Vehicles were burning and several vehicles of 15 Division abandoned on the road, the drivers having run away, leaving some of the engines still running. Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad was hiding in a recently irrigated sugar cane field. As described by Harabakash Singh: "He (Prasad) came out to receive us, with his boots covered with wet mud. He had no head cover, nor was he wearing any badges of his rank. He had stubble on his face, not having shaved." Seeing him in such a stage, Harbakhash Singh asked him: "Whether he was the General Officer commanding a division or a coolie? Why had he removed badges of rank and not shaved? Niranjan Prasad had no answer."

http://www.riazhaq.com/2009/07/demolishing-indian-war-myths-about.html
 
That occurred before the war started. The war started when India crossed the IB on the 6th of September, Gibraltar was just part of the pre-war escalation just like the Rann of Kutch incident was.



And Pakistan was able to capture large quantities of land down south and in Kashmir too. Your own army literally panicked that Pakistan would be able to march right into Delhi.



Yes it was, Pakistan halted India's invasion in little over two weeks and managed to reverse it, again, your own army panicked that Pakistan would take Delhi. Not to mention the fact that Pakistan managed to do this whilst being heavily outnumbered (far more so than it is today), and made many great achievements (e.g won the largest tank battle since WW2/2nd largest tank battle in history, MM Alam holds the world record for the most aircraft shot down in under a minute, etc). For goodness sake, your own PM died of a heart attack in Tashkent!

"Pakistan claims to have destroyed something like 1/3rd the Indian Air Force, and foreign observers, who are in a position to know say that Pakistani pilots have claimed even higher kills than this; but the Pakistani Air Force are being scrupulously honest in evaluating these claims. They are crediting Pakistan Air Force only those killings that can be checked from other sources."

Roy Meloni,
American Broadcasting Corporation
September 15, 1965.

The London Daily Mirror reported in 1965:

"There is a smell of death in the burning Pakistan sun. For it was here that India's attacking forces came to a dead stop.

"During the night they threw in every reinforcement they could find. But wave after wave of attacks were repulsed by the Pakistanis"


USA - Aviation week & space technology - December 1968 issue.

"For the PAF, the 1965 war was as climatic as the Israeli victory over the Arabs in 1967. A further similarity was that Indian air power had an approximately 5:1 numerical superiority at the start of the conflict. Unlike the Middle East conflict, the Pakistani air victory was achieved to a large degree by air-to-air combat rather than on ground. But it was as absolute as that attained by Israel.

1965 War, the Inside Story by R.D. Pradhan:

In Chapter 8 titled "Of Cowardice and Panic", the author describes the cowardice of Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad, the Indian general commanding officer in Lahore sector. When the general was fired upon by Pakistani forces, he "ran away". "On learning that, Lt. Gen. Harbakash Singh and the corps commander drove in a Jonga to the battlefront. Army commander found that the enemy (PAF) air attack had created a havoc on G.T. Road. (Indian) Vehicles were burning and several vehicles of 15 Division abandoned on the road, the drivers having run away, leaving some of the engines still running. Maj. Gen. Niranjan Prasad was hiding in a recently irrigated sugar cane field. As described by Harabakash Singh: "He (Prasad) came out to receive us, with his boots covered with wet mud. He had no head cover, nor was he wearing any badges of his rank. He had stubble on his face, not having shaved." Seeing him in such a stage, Harbakhash Singh asked him: "Whether he was the General Officer commanding a division or a coolie? Why had he removed badges of rank and not shaved? Niranjan Prasad had no answer."

http://www.riazhaq.com/2009/07/demolishing-indian-war-myths-about.html
Media headlines often do not tell the whole story and are not as reliable as analyses conducted later by third-party sources. Yes Pakistan won the air war. Nobody is denying that. But on the ground was a different story, and the PAF's victories could not make up for the losses the PA suffered on the ground. Most studies on the war have concluded exactly that, including those by noted historians(some of which I have posted earlier, there are several more out there) and the US state department and Library of Congress. The facts are by attacking Lahore, the IA succeeded in preventing Pakistan from invading Kashmir; and you still have yet to provide a source showing that Pakistan captured more land than India. Pakistan captured some land right along the border in Rajasthan, Kutch, and Kashmir, India captured significant territories in Punjab going all the way to the suburbs of Lahore as well as territory in Sindh and AJK. Yes there was a real concern that Pakistan could inflict severe damage on India after it began its counterattack, but those were put to rest after Pakistan's offensive failed in the Battle of Assal Uttar, forcing the PA to retreat back over the IB.
 
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