Talks on with Russia for second nuclear submarine on lease

[indian_foxhound]

but what the use when we can use them for wars...
We are sending 970mil just for training purpose???
Thats hell lots of money...
Are we having any project/proposal for nuke sub??

 

[GR!FF!N]

but what the use when we can use them for wars...
We are sending 970mil just for training purpose???
Thats hell lots of money...
Are we having any project/proposal for nuke sub??

there are more than what meets our eye.I think India will use it just like it is using Arihant.They will be used for patrolling as well as in War."Not using war" is just the BS it needs to shut some voice in the International arena.tell me,how you'll know from which Submarine,torpedo was fired(though I know subs can be identified by their Acoustic signature...but still,if torpedo is fired,they will be dead by then.

 

[Mritunjaya]

There are no rules in war .....victory is the only objective. All available assets will be used in war. Anyone who thinks otherwise is as damn fool.

 

[kurup]

isn't yasen class too expensive??Borei Class is a lot cheap..

Borei is an SSBN .

“There is a real possibility of leasing to India for 10 years several of our nuclear powered multi-role submarines of Project 971 ‘Shchuka-B’ class,”

Several .........

 

[kurup]

I know it. when the sub was leased, the condition was this sub will not be used in war

Leased Nuke sub can not be used in war.

Buddy , Can you please provide the source for that .

Also I don't think in time of war we will adhere to that.

 

[mehboobkz]

Buddy , Can you please provide the source for that .

Also I don't think in time of war we will adhere to that.

This lease contract is so secret that CIA might not have its contents. This was a hush hush deal.
This is conventional wisdom, that Russians would not be responsible for other people's death committed by Indians from their platform. This might have international repurcussions, hence its generally understood that the lease document would be favoring Russians on this.

 

[Koovie]

good news.but isnt buying better??can some one shed some light here??

Selling nuclear subs isnt allowed. But no one ever said anything against leasing them

 

[kurup]

This lease contract is so secret that CIA might not have its contents. This was a hush hush deal.
This is conventional wisdom, that Russians would not be responsible for other people's death committed by Indians from their platform. This might have international repurcussions, hence its generally understood that the lease document would be favoring Russians on this.

If the sub is in lease with India , how come Russia will be responsible ??

India will be the sole responsible party and as such the argument that they cannot be used in war doesn't seem authentic ??

Selling nuclear subs isnt allowed. But no one ever said against leasing them

Akula is leased for 10 years with the condition that the lease period can be extended at the end of each lease.

In other words we can lease this sub for 30 to 40 years ( normal life period of a SSN/SSBN) and it will be still a lease and not a purchase ....

 

[janon]

Good move if true. We need a fleet of nuclear subs, both SSNs and SSBNs, in keeping with our ambition of developing a blue water navy. The conventional subs we are buying are nearly as expensive anyway. Our submarine warfare doctrine needs to be revamped, with nuclear subs playing a crucial role. Just like the induction of the mig 29Ks, such a move will also be a game changer for the IN, and will improve its capabilities by leaps and bounds.

 

[peep]

we need 10 SSBN and 20 SSN pronto

 

[mehboobkz]

If the sub is in lease with India , how come Russia will be responsible ??

India will be the sole responsible party and as such the argument that they cannot be used in war doesn't seem authentic ??

Technically yes. It is still a Russian submarine owned by Russian government.
Lease for ten years does not mean India owns it.
It has to be returned back as per the lease agreement.
Since the nuclear missiles can be fired from this Russian sub, and kill millions nationals. Russia would be culpable to some extent. Hence its understood that they must have safeguarded themselves with legal and water tight lease document.
Read NPT Charter for more implications.

 

[sancho]

isn't yasen class too expensive??Borei Class is a lot cheap..

Of course a nuclear sub is expensive, but we need such subs to project our power and provide SSBNs and CBGs escorts. So it's either developing them completely alone, which takes years, especially if we want to come up with something that is as capable as the big Russian nuclear subs, or we go for this licence production, which gives us the latest of Russia in this field, but at the same time a high Indian content too.

@sancho : isn't selling and TOT about nuclear subs not allowed by some treaty ??? Is that's why we get the sub on lease ???

Selling a nuclear sub is, but not a licence production of a sub hull without a propulsion, that's how France and Brazil does it as well:

Brazil's submarine project well on way

Brazil's plans to build its first nuclear submarine within 10 years are well on way to implementation despite skepticism about the Latin American country's technology transfer partnership with France...

...The shipyard will make metal hull structures for four conventional diesel-electric Scorpene class attack submarines and eventually a fifth submarine powered by a nuclear reactor.

Brazil says it will share French technology in the project but wants to develop the nuclear reactor with its own technology

Brazil's nuclear submarine project well on way to implementation - UPI.com


So why should we fund the production of an old Akula class SSN, if we could get a their latest SSGN with Indian propulsion and systems (+ western customizations)?

 

[IND151]

Buddy , Can you please provide the source for that .

Also I don't think in time of war we will adhere to that.

To put matters in perspective, India in 1988 had procured the Soviet Charlie I class nuclear attack submarine, renamed INS Chakra on a three-year lease. The vessel came without strategic weapons, with the sole purpose of familiarising naval personnel on training and maintenance of nuclear-powered submarines. The rules of engagement spelt out that INS Chakra would not be used in war.

The Russian Akula sub, given the same name, INS Chakra comes with similar purpose and rules of engagement.

The Chakra will use club missiles and not 1,000 KM missile the RuSN Akulas use

https://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&r...hIDwAQ&usg=AFQjCNEOhYTuCv9MyjpLMP949QR_yIZKgw

we need 10 SSBN and 20 SSN pronto

GOI is planning 4 SSBNs and if I am right it will not order more than 2 SSNs

 

[mehboobkz]

The vessel came without strategic weapons, with the sole purpose of familiarising naval personnel on training and maintenance of nuclear-powered submarines. The rules of engagement spelt out that INS Chakra would not be used in war

Just as I stated earlier....

 

[kurup]

GOI is planning 4 SSBNs and if I am right it will not order more than 2 SSNs

You mean Akulas , right .