Talks for Su-35, Mi-35 sales to Pakistan are underway: Russian Deputy FM

[PoKeMon]

Call me Ram, the Big Daddy from the Vedic times who used to hit Lakshami and her sisters and cousins if you know what I mean. You'll add personals when I am merely asking a question, I'll cross all lines. Simple is that. Stay respectful and I will extend the courtesy. Otherwise, I'll retaliate like the US military does, go all in!!!!

I'll be Ram, hitting Seeta was fun, and her two sisters were fun if you know what I mean. I wrote the newer version of Kama Sutra. Its not as boring as the previous one was, the previous one was like old school, Vedic times, slow motion stuff. We are in 21t century and ask Seeta's sister, she's was thrilled on how we changed the entire Karma and Sutra separately..

No, it was a Vedic burst, from 6000 years ago. When Indians would fly cars traveling inter-galaxy. Why did you need to beg for American jobs if you were SO progressive? Bull shiit has another name, called "Vedic time" in Hindu religion. By the way, if you had flying cars back in the Vedic times, why didn't you build Rafale back then?

@Irfan Baloch @WebMaster @Slav Defence @waz

Please look at this orangzaib turned piper who is abusing a religion to core, using sex as a tool in hurling invective for holy figures.

This guy can feel proud of abusing a whole religion but getting offended for someone returning him the same (even then taking him individually and not his faith/country).

@Tipu7 Please read the post of this man to whom I replied. Also read my post again and in context. You will find that I meant no dis-respect to any faith.

 

[Tipu7]

Please read the post of this man to whom I replied. Also read my post again and in context. You will find that I meant no dis-respect to any faith.

I guess you are the one using name of ALLAH not viper.
Instead of dragging this to further low level of morality you must have reported it to mods before Viper did..........

 

[PoKeMon]

I guess you are the one using name of ALLAH not viper.
Instead of dragging this to further low level of morality you must have reported it to mods before Viper did..........

Using name of Allah is not derogatory, its the purpose what define it.

He said - call me ram.
I said - we dont care if he call himself anything.

 

[aliyusuf]

Pakistan should get j-10 or f-18....
Can anyone tell me when J-31 is entering mass production?

Not much is known about the J-31. People seem to be going gaga over it just on the basis of its looks. It is about the same size as F-35 ... slightly bigger. But it has two engines. That is the question mark here. With the space occupied by two engines how much space will be left for internal fuel and internal weapons? Will there be enough to for it make it go deep enough and carrying enough weapons internally for it to be a viable escort or strike platform? Can it exceed or even match the depth and payload of an F-16 for a similar mission? That is the question that needs to be answered. Because the moment you start hanging weapons and fuel tanks under the wing ... you negate the very core feature of it being stealth. LO CFT's may help and aerial refueling is another (but limiting option when full blown is in progress) ... but its an issue that needs ironing out. People need to understand that the plane that flew in last year's Zhuhai Air Show was not even a prototype but a technology demonstrator called 31001 by Shenyang, the manufacturer. How long things will take before mass production will take place is anybody's guess.

 

[aliyusuf]

These aircraft are also capable of carrying external payloads just like F22.

Yes they do. But when they do that the RCS increases and stealth is compromised.

 

[NIA]

plane that flew in last year's Zhuhai Air Show was not even a prototype but a technology demonstrator called 31001 by Shenyang,

So you say j-31 is under development?
Ok then what about j-20...? or f-18 hornet?

 

[aliyusuf]

So you say j-31 is under development?
Ok then what about j-20...? or f-18 hornet?

Its not just what I say ... its open to be found out if you google it. Not sure where the project is right now ... not much information on what work is being done.

As for the Super Hornet ... I doubt it. It's quite expensive to buy and cost of operation is too high for Pakistan. Furthermore I don't think the US will sell us that plane even if we wanted it. Above all it is not sanction proof. Just imagine after spending all that money you are at risk of being handicapped with sanctions.

J-20 will be a long time coming too, if China agrees to sell it. It is going to be China's premiere fighter. Their F-22 counterpart. This plane too will be quite costly to operate even if we eat grass to save up for buying it. Firstly Chinese demands will be fulfilled and only then they might acquiesce in selling it.

 

[aliyusuf]

I totally agree with you. But these factors will only matter when used for deep enemy strikes.

True. But there goes 50% of the advantage and utility of having a stealthy fighter ... if it cannot be too effective in being an escort or a strike platform.

 

[abdulbarijan]

So you say j-31 is under development?
Ok then what about j-20...? or f-18 hornet?

-Both J-31 and J-20 are under development and infact the J-31 has already performed in the Zuhahi air show, I think it was in 2014 ... The time frame of development phase will more or less come down on the engine and whether China wants to outsource it from Russia to be a little time efficient ... or will it go for an indigenous engine to be independent ..

Whatever the case maybe -- J-20 will not be seen in PAF colors .... the school of thought behind is to have much more maintenance friendly aircraft that need lesser work ... generating less turn around times etc. Hence for a 5th generation option, the J-31 is the Pakistani choice by default ... although the J-31 of today might not be the FC-31 ultimately being inducted in the PAF as the PAF has a history of modifying aircrafts with western avionics or going for much more advanced chinese options etc.

As far as the F-18 is concerned ... the only US aircraft under these circumstances that the PAF will go for is the F-16 ...

I totally agree with you. But these factors will only matter when used for deep enemy strikes.

RCS also matters in an air to air engagement ... the longer the vision of your electronic eye, and the better camouflaged you are from the enemy's electronic eye will more or less dictate the fate of a BVR engagement ...

 

[Shabi1]

PAF is never going against a F-22 level aircraft so no need for J-20.

Su-35 is a great aircraft and its supposed to have much lower maintenance requirements and it's engine/air frame life is twice of that the Su-30. But integrating a Russian fighter aircraft into PAF will be a pain, adding the supply chain and creating the infrastructure plus pilot training for it will be a lot tougher since PAF has never operated a Russian sourced jet before. Could take maybe 3-5yrs for properly integrating it. Plus will need a whole set of new munitions, also integrating it with Erieyes or ZDK AWACs might not be possible.

The remaining options are J-10B, F-16 and J-31. It can always get more F-16s, buy them and have them serving as soon as landed in Pakistan. J-10Bs will only be bought if the the Indian MMRCA deal had gone through in full numbers. J-31 will probably take another 5 years earliest to reach a decent maturity but it is Pakistan's most high tech option.

PAF needs at least a squadron worth of dedicated air superiority fighter, with more range and payload than the Thunder. So eventually it will have to buy a new jet but depending on threat level it is best preferred to hold it off and save funds for the J-31 or if there is a urgent war threat and funds can be diverted from other projects induct more F-16s. J-10Bs with their integrated IRST and AESA radars offer a very good air warfare advantage and good bang for the buck, but again if we can wait and make do with continuously beefed up JF-17s, the J-31 trumps it.

For now since Russia is opening up I think Pakistan will look towards helicopters, components, SAMs and improved engines from them. Maybe some Chinese systems which were previously being sidelined because of Russian parts (eg high end SAMs with Russian seekers).

 

[09ee97]

There will be no SU-35 for PAF because:

1- Russia isn't stupid to destroy cordial relations with india.
2- We don't have this much money.

 

[Super Falcon]

My take is F-15E if it is available if you want to counter Su30 MKI whose upgradation to Super Sukhoi standandard will started from 2017 onwards which will nullify Su35 advantage. Actually I am wondering why it is not in PAF wishlist after decades of experience with F-16. Advantage of acquiring F-15 is the right approach with common weapon with F-16 and Paf experience with F-16. Pakistan had been the natural ally with the USA and USA can provide soft loans or the second hand upgraded F-15

Dear USA is not reliable source we suffered choosing F 16

Now world is moving out from US weapons slowly due to un expected bans and expansive weapons

China is going to be big player in 10 years

And till 10 years our 50 F-16 will be 4 decades old... and need to be replaced too....

Yes but this attitude PAF use them until they get out by fault

 

[surya kiran]

@Viper0011. request you to avoid bringing in religion and abusing using books which are considered holy by some, the same courtesy which is extended to your Koran.

@waz @Irfan Baloch @Oscar

 

[fatman17]

Russia still has a very robust defence relationship with India. It will not sell offensive weapons to Pakistan. Defensive yes.

 

[waz]

I rubbished this SU-35 nonsense a while back and deleted the previous ludicrous thread.