Talk of the town: Caretaker setup and Financial Emergency in progress

[villageidiot]

I'm not fond of democracy

And I suppose you've asked 2/3rds of Pakistan and they feel the same way?

On a serious note, you are probably not fond of anarchy either. So what is it?

 

[FuturePAF]

Pdm parties are all controlled from Ghq, their interests are superceded by Ghq interests and are satisfied in the knowledge that the electoral process is all controlled by the Mil-establishment and not by the people. Hence the only way they will be hurt politically is by not playing along to establishment's demands.

But their parties, being the face of implementing the policies, bear the blame. It gives the veneer of a democratic government. Even the name of their group is Orwellian; Pakistan “Democratic Movement”.

 

[villageidiot]

As far as I can tell, nothing has really gone wrong. What seems to be the issue? This situation is nothing that the establishment cannot handle in its own way. I may agree with their solution, but they will provide one nonetheless.

Is it weird that I was expecting this exact response from you?

 

[VCheng]

Is it weird that I was expecting this exact response from you?

Of course not, you being the clairvoyant that you are.

Let me say it again anyway: Just because a shaky coalition government fell does not mean the sky has fallen for Pakistan.

 

[FuturePAF]

Thank you for a thoughtful post, with many good ideas. However, they all seem to be contingent on this key statement:



Please remind me if I have missed it, but is there any evidence at all, from either side, that they are willing to negotiate such an "new" arrangement any different than the "old" arrangement? If they cannot work with each other, none of your excellent ideas have any hope of being implemented.



Please see the above, thanks.



"All the powers" he has were not enough to get the FIR he wanted. Obviously, he may need more than what he enjoys currently to be effective.

You can’t say I’m not honest in prefacing it with that statement. Any changes are contingent on the establishment wanting to see changes.

But, you will then ask, why would they allow changes from the Status quo? Up until 2010, Pakistan has found a way to sort of keep pace (on a per capita basis) with regional countries economically. It was really in the last 12 years the old methods no longer work, especially with the world not having a desire to fund ways to deal with the Afghanistan situation.

The neighboring countries seem poised to keep growing, but Pakistan looks like it will stagnate or decline if something new isn’t done soon. This opens up the risk of being outcompeted economically and potentially militarily, as Pakistan is already if being outdone diplomatically and industrially; the four elements of D.I.M.E. I don’t want to go to much into the doom and gloom, but only to say the regional disparity is bound to get worse, with all that portends, if a course correction is not done soon.

 

[Olympus81]

Honestly, I don’t think we’ve reached default levels as yet. There is some time for the current crooks to negotiate with IMF, get structural reforms, put hard measures in place to increase revenue, but seems they don’t want to do it for fear of losing political capital. Probably another 3 months. This seems to be another attempt at creating alarm bells to justify a technocrat government.

By the time, a technocrat government comes, they might have to devalue Rs, enact harsh measures in an even worse environment.

Pakistan is royally screwed.

 

[RescueRanger]

I'll just leave this here...

 

[Jango]

I'll just leave this here...

Shehbaz speed, DJ ISPR with the market went up and USD went down, stability returning, comeback of Dar, Maryam ki bharkain, PDM ki bharkain regarding being ready for elections...all that this tenure will be remembered for.

I haven't even gotten to Bajwa yet.

 

[VCheng]

You can’t say I’m not honest in prefacing it with that statement. Any changes are contingent on the establishment wanting to see changes.

But, you will then ask, why would they allow changes from the Status quo? Up until 2010, Pakistan has found a way to sort of keep pace (on a per capita basis) with regional countries economically. It was really in the last 12 years the old methods no longer work, especially with the world not having a desire to fund ways to deal with the Afghanistan situation.

The neighboring countries seem poised to keep growing, but Pakistan looks like it will stagnate or decline if something new isn’t done soon. This opens up the risk of being outcompeted economically and potentially militarily, as Pakistan is already if being outdone diplomatically and industrially; the four elements of D.I.M.E. I don’t want to go to much into the doom and gloom, but only to say the regional disparity is bound to get worse, with all that portends, if a course correction is not done soon.

I cannot find much in your reply that I cannot agree with, since I have been accused of being a pessimist here on PDF, when all it is is being a realist. I have used the analogy of Pakistan screaming down the highway stuck in first gear so many times, it is not funny anymore.

 

[villageidiot]

Of course not, you being the clairvoyant that you are.

No, I think you are beginning to grow on me.

Let me say it again anyway: Just because a shaky coalition government fell does not mean the sky has fallen for Pakistan.

Who said anything about shaky govt?

No one here is saying, "oh my poor govt is shaky"
People are, however, saying, "I am having a hard time making ends meet."

That's the thing, though. For you sitting out there in freedomland, you are looking at it from, if you don't mind me saying, an academic lens. The reality is different. I hope you'll forgo this transgression from us mere mortals but we have a better understanding of the sky that's fallen.

 

[TheSolution]

And I suppose you've asked 2/3rds of Pakistan and they feel the same way?

On a serious note, you are probably not fond of anarchy either. So what is it?

I am fond of effective governance and productive growth, and a nationalist leadership who puts our country's interests and territorial integrity above all else.

I don't care which system brings this, but democracy is clearly not capable of that as politicians care primarily about their seats.

 

[villageidiot]

I have been accused of being a pessimist here on PDF, when all it is is being a realist.

Ah yes, the goto excuse for pessimists. If I had a dollar for everything I heard that, nay used it in my own defense, I'd be living comfy in the US too, and trolling on a Pakistani forum to kill time.

 

[VCheng]

we have a better understanding of the sky that's fallen.

LOL. And just what portion of the sky is that? What is unique about this episode compared to exactly similar setbacks and trials Pakistanis have not gone though so many times before? Inflation? Devaluation? High energy prices? Corruption? Economic stagnation? None of those afflictions are new, and indeed established design features (gasp!).

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@FuturePAF

The neighboring countries seem poised to keep growing, but Pakistan looks like it will stagnate or decline if something new isn’t done soon.

I have an answer for that, albeit an incomplete one. Pakistan's perennially low savings rate, which has always been lower than 15% or thereabouts whereas most of Asia including relatively poor countries like IND and BD have kept it at close to 25-30% for over 2 decades now. What I don't have an answer to is why it should be so. Perhaps @RiazHaq or @VCheng sb or @niaz sb may have an answer. (I intend to open a new thread when I have time on that)

Regards

 

[Baghial]

Seems in the next few weeks technocratic govt is coming. The economy is beyond PDM control. Shabber Zaidi is giving signals something is cooking behind the scene. A recent meeting in GHQ. Caretaker setup already discussed with PDM. PDM ready to make amendment in constitution. From 3 months to 6 months or 2 years.

haaaaaaaaaaahahh

since 1947- every civil govt has been care -taker of jernal,s wishes, whats NEW NOW?