Taliban Funding

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

AFAIK RDX is not used in mining. I checked with someone who owns a mine. They use Gelatine mainy.

Ratus Ratus clarified that above as well- which leaves the source of RDX an open question once more.

My guess is that it arrives through same routes the drugs and weapons smuggled into Pakistan take - through Iran and the CAR's.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

“He said that the prime source of funding for the Taliban is not from narcotics but from private individuals and groups in the Gulf region particularly Saudi,” said a western diplomat, without giving further details.

Or is this setting the stage for continued US failure/lack of desire to act against the drug production in Afghanistan ....

 

[Durran3]

Or is this setting the stage for continued US failure/lack of desire to act against the drug production in Afghanistan ....

Both.. Opium Production is at an all time high, much more so than when it was under the Taliban. Clearly the US has failed to stop that growth, failure in Afghanistan is a direct result of the invasion of Iraq.

And at the same time you have the Wahabist apologists sitting in the Gulf throwing donation money left and right into the hands of these terrorists.

 

[S-2]

The Afghan taliban gov't set it's OWN world production records under the mentorship of the ISI in 1999. This is a fact. The afghan taliban gov't exiled today in Quetta places great value on opium to it's war effort and always has.

The opium production in 29 of 34 Afghan provinces last year amounted to about 10,000 of 157,000 hectares.

Where's the remaining?

Helmand, Kandahar, Farah, Oruzgan, and Nimroz. Three of the five directly adjacent to the Baluchi Pakistan border and all except Farah heavily Pashtu.

Nangahar and Helmand were roughly tied for 1st in 2005 with about 30,000 hectares apiece. In 2008 Nangahar report ZERO hectares in the American RC-East zone. Helmand more than tripled to 103,000.

Last year saw a slight overall drop despite a marked increase in Helmand. Please see the 2008 Afghan Opium survey provided by UNODC to compare the data available by province over the last five years.

The Brits had not been south of Garmsir town in Helmand before April 2008. Informed observers note that this condition appears to be changing.

"Continuing failure" belies the increasing value of the Pakistani trafficking routes. The importance of these Pakistani routes are now clear to those not in denial.

Please google "Pakistani opium trafficking" to further shed light on the emerging importance of this valued crop and it's relation to Pakistan.

"Continuing failure" easily describes seven and one-half years of Pakistani sanctuary provided to the Afghan taliban/Haqqani/Hekmatyar/Al Qaeda.

Without such, there'd be no Afghan insurgency. Without such, there'd be no war in SWAT and Buner either.

That's "loss of sovereign writ" failure.

My guess is that NATO/ISAF will have more success reducing opium's impact on this insurgency before the P.A. is able to eliminate the sanctuaries in the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan and eastern Baluchistan and regain it's own lands so easily and freely given away.

I don't mind the snide insinuations as the problem is real enough but really only half the story to those who seek the truth and not dissemblance and any equivocation that might be mustered from such.

There's far more to this story than most Pakistanis care to know.

 

[gambit]

Both.. Opium Production is at an all time high, much more so than when it was under the Taliban. Clearly the US has failed to stop that growth, failure in Afghanistan is a direct result of the invasion of Iraq.

And at the same time you have the Wahabist apologists sitting in the Gulf throwing donation money left and right into the hands of these terrorists.

More like the sharp rise in opium production is clearly the result of the lack of moral instructions. Why should it be the US responsibility to teach Afghans that opium rot the mind?

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

"Continuing failure" belies the increasing value of the Pakistani trafficking routes. The importance of these Pakistani routes are now clear to those not in denial.

Actually continuing failure very clearly points to the fact that the US/NATO has done next to nothing to stop drug cultivation and the drug trade (though the improvements in the North are welcome, they have merely been replaced with increased production elsewhere).

You can pontificate all you want about where the provinces are located and what the drugs trade means to the insurgency, but the fact remains that the opium crop is produced in Afghanistan, in a nation for all intents and purposes run by the US, and little has been done to stop it.

Don't blame the transit routes for the problem that originates in your area of control.

The most effective means of reducing this problem remains getting the Afghan farmers to stop growing it. Pakistan and Iran both accomplished this years ago - time for the US/NATO and GoA to do the same.

My guess is that NATO/ISAF will have more success reducing opium's impact on this insurgency

And all power to you in that belated endeavor.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

As much as A.M. might wish to peddle the B.S. elsewhere, this is increasingly not a uzbek, tajik, turkomen problem within Afghanistan (i.e. the N.A.) but a PASHTU issue.

As much as you disagree with me, there is no need to distort my positions and lie.

I have argued the use of Northern Afghanistan as one of the major transit routes for drugs out of Afghanistan and weapons into Afghanistan, and then to Pakistan. I have not argued that it is a primarily 'Uzbek, Tajik, Turkomen problem', nor have I argued that the North is the primary producer.

You insist on adding on this ethnic dimension to my posts, of somehow exonerating the Pashtun and blaming the Northern ethnic groups, when I have never done so.

And for some reason you refuse to accept that there is a flourishing drugs and weapons trade through the North of Afghanistan and through the CAR's. I used the Interpol reports before, which you disagreed with partially because the report was for 2008 (using 2007 data) and therefore did not represent whatever fantastic changes occurred in Afghan and Central Asian dynamics in one year.

The following validates my position and the Interpol report.

According to the report, the five Central Asian republics have minimal internal production of illicit narcotics or chemicals used to manufacture drugs, but are major transit corridors for heroin and opium originating in Afghanistan and destined for markets in Russia, Western Europe and America. It also cites evidence of trafficking in Afghan opiates to and through China...

...According to the study, Tajikistan suffers from a boom in Afghan drug production and is a major center for drug trafficking organizations, which transport major amounts of opium and heroin via land routes through Tajikistan and other Central Asian countries, and into Russia and Europe.
Central Asia Countries Remain Major Drug Transit Routes

 

[S-2]

"the fact remains that the opium crop is produced in Afghanistan, in a nation for all intents and purposes run by the US, and little has been done to stop it."

And the same could be said of Pakistan beforehand. Further, you choose to ignore in your "fact" 39 other nations and a UN mandate to color your narrative.

"...little to stop it" is odd given a near 20% overall reduction last year from 193,000 hectares to 157,000 nor the near eradication of such in the AMERICAN zone.

Dissemblance and distortion of the facts seems far closer.

Does dope travel north through CAR? Sure. Less every day as more travels SOUTH through Pakistan. Do weapons enter Afghanistan through CAR? Sure but can you quantify such? I'd like to read your data there and how that impacts Pakistan.

Do you ignore the weapons routes to Pakistan from the G.C.C. Yes. Utterly. It's a two-way street of dope out, guns in with the taliban knee-deep in both.

You know where our troops are going. We'll see if and when you reconquer the Islamic Emirate of Waziristan and eastern Baluchistan.

Finally, when it comes to corruption, there's a glass-house issue that arises wherever this drug appears. I wouldn't be so smug given Pakistan's own legacy in this regard.

 

[S-2]

"Heroin, The Taliban, and the Seeds of Terror" is a recent book written by Gretchen Peters after five years of research in Afghanistan.

She discusses such in this NPR interview that's 26 minutes long heard here.

 

[All-Green]

The Afghan taliban gov't set it's OWN world production records under the mentorship of the ISI in 1999. This is a fact. The afghan taliban gov't exiled today in Quetta places great value on opium to it's war effort and always has.

The opium production in 29 of 34 Afghan provinces last year amounted to about 10,000 of 157,000 hectares.

Just noticed a few things and wanted to comment here.

1) ISI mentoring Taliban to cultivate poppy?
This is not a fact and does not even come close to any logical explanation why ISI would want to ruin its own country via such efforts.
ISI is Pakistan's premier intelligence agency and not some drug lord's personal property!
Why does Pakistan waste precious resources in anti narcotics efforts/operations if it really wants a piece of the green?
No sir i do not agree at all with this accusation, it is a bit too much really.

2) In July 2001 Afghanistan (under Mullah Omar) declared poppy cultivation illegal and nearly decimated the entire year's products so that action does not fit in well with this point of view that Taliban were drug barons out to strengthen the drug trade.
Taliban were a reaction to the post Afghan Jihad civil war and that was the sole reason of their initial popularity in the people who supported them and their quest to implement law and order, what they became eventually is a different story and a sad one indeed.

3) Once again the old guard of drug lords is back in action, Many of Karzai's men are drug lords and the same people who were raping Afghanistan when they had the opportunity.
They will make sure that Drug trafficking is not controlled and production is optimum since that is their trade.
Remember when the US was about to help Afghanistan destroy the poppy fields by using herbicides from the air?
Karzai quoted local issues and stopped the use of this most efficient means of destroying the crops, do you all really buy the BS excuses of Karzai?
Karzai is in it most likely since his family is also alleged to be part of the drug trade, very likely he is benefiting from this situation if not directly then at least indirectly via support.

You have some really rotten friends in Afghanistan and they have been doing this since long but come to think about it i do not blame the ordinary Afghan for doing this.
Their country has been utterly ruined and destroyed since decades, this is the only way for these poor people to earn cash quickly and i think this is the reason even US is not directly taking the Bull by the horns here, how can it do this knowing that it will cause even more misery to the Afghans and hatred for the US in Afghanistan?
If you do it you will piss off both your allies and the farming community.
You can only address this problem if there is economic development, no other way about it.

Here is an interesting article from the Washington post, a bit old but sheds some light on such issues
Afghanistan Opium Crop Sets Record - washingtonpost.com

 

[S-2]

"ISI mentoring Taliban to cultivate poppy?"

Good question that casts perspective on how the U.S. is mentoring Afghanistan to be a world-record producing opium nation now...as Afghanistan also was during the years under the Taliban.

" In July 2001 Afghanistan (under Mullah Omar) declared poppy cultivation illegal and nearly decimated the entire year's products so that action does not fit in well with this point of view that Taliban were drug barons out to strengthen the drug trade..."

And you explain both the preceding and subsequent years how WRT the taliban?

"...You have some really rotten friends in Afghanistan..."

Yes...and elsewhere too when it comes to these and other matters. Check yourselves at the door. The moment afghan opium crosses into Pakistan, you assume ownership. Where and how it proceeds has much to do with those in other governments besides the GoA.

"this is the reason even US is not directly taking the Bull by the horns here..."

No. There are more reasons to include Great Britain's lead role in the U.N. anti-drug effort. We follow exceedingly well. They try hard but are under-resourced in the most critical area of the nation. I won't apologize for our efforts as supporters of their leading role. We've played that exceedingly well in our region. So too have others. The measurable successes are clear if you wish to acknowledge them.

Karzai's point about alternative crops is valid and he isn't the only to note such. As to the speculation and family ties, please refer to nepotism and the role of your current President and past leaders. Why do you assume corruption starts in and stops at the afghan border when these drugs move very freely through your country too?

Seems an excessively odd position.

I re-iterate- there's no Afghan insurgency of consequence (or at all) in the absence of Pakistani sancturary since early 2002. That sanctuary and the long association of the taliban with opium is the root of this problem.

For all of the complaints by Gretchen Peters about America in her NPR interview, she makes abundantly clear this long association between opium and the taliban and the role played by them today. Worthy listening.

There's plenty of blame to spread around here.

 

[HAIDER]

aahhh drug financed war or war financed drug...i see no light at the end of tunnel. Remind me movie seen of vietnam war, when cocaine comes in coffins of GIs...Now the dirty war is more dirty and loyalties of soldiers are contaminated with drug money.

 

[sergente rehan]

Among the foriegn hands there is also indian hand, Raw is also involved in funding these terrorists to destabilize Pakistan!

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

there's no Afghan insurgency of consequence (or at all) in the absence of Pakistani sancturary since early 2002

There would also be no Afghan insurgency of any consequence, or Pakistani insurgency for that matter, were weapons and resources courtesy the poppy crop grown in Afghanistan not transiting through Afghanistan and supplying the insurgents on both sides.

Your nations efforts at reduction in the poppy trade have been abysmal, and the drug trade continues to fund these people.

Your statistics clearly indicate that 'done little to stop it' is an accurate comment.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hello S 2,

If your army had fought with the same zeal, energy and committment that you bring to this board---this discussion would have never taken place---al qaeda would have been neutralized and taliban a thing of past.

Today---the goal of your army is----actually what is the goal of the u s and british army in afghanistan---seemingly---the british are protecting the poppy crop---if any crop is detroyed---they are paying the farmers----this was on the news on cnn a few weeks ago here on the west coast---.

Now what is the u s army upto in afghanistan---does it have a goal anymore---. What are its priorities---taliban control the land outside the bases---ok so you have air superiority---but you cannot move around anywhere without the threat of being attacked---.

Your to be commander of afghanistan---a man who tried to hide the killings of a special forces soldier---is this the kind of men the u s army has to lead it---seems like the same kind of men that GM and chrysler had to lead them into bankruptcy---.

Remember my article about your previous generals---how pathetic their performance was and you jumped at me----look at it again---that was the face of corporate america in the u s millitary---incompetent fools---leading the millitary----incompetent fools leading the u s industry----the industry is in shambles---begging for the rest of the world to put them together and keep them afloat---and the millitary---doesn't even know or remember how to fight a war anymore.

You talk about taliban funding---they are your saudi brothers that are sending them money---actaully Bush / Cheney's brothers---the weapons are coming to them from u s asrsonal---purchased with u s money---the conduit---the afghan army and warlords.

The pak army is attacking the taliban in swat etc---where is the massive troop movement on your side to block off and seal the border and restrict the movement of the taliban---entrap them in the middle and finish them off. There is chicken sh-it movement---50 troops here---50 troops there---and afghan warlords controlling the afghan armies.

Most of the opium and hash is moving through russia and nato containers under the control of the nato and afghan forces.

Have ballz---blame russia and see what they say---.