Zero_wing
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Messages
- 4,296
- Reaction score
- -2
Why ask permission ? good then less rubbish to talk to the better have nice day jerk
Taiwan can respond to assassination of unarmed fisherman by the Philippines
- Thread starter Martian2
- Start date
Why ask permission ? good then less rubbish to talk to the better have nice day jerk
Martian2
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 5,809
- Reaction score
- -37
Taiwan coastguard vessel Tainan Jian will fire on Philippine coast guard thugs
The Philippine coast guard is a criminal organization that brutally murdered a helpless elderly Taiwanese fisherman. If the Taiwan coast guard finds the criminal Philippine coast guard ships in the Bashi Strait, we will exterminate the criminals.
Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English
"Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions
Government issues ultimatum to Manila following fatal shooting of Taiwanese fisherman in disputed water.
Last Modified: 13 May 2013 03:12
[(L) Taiwanese La Fayette frigate. (R) Taiwanese coast guard ship.]
Taiwan's government has issued a 72-hour ultimatum to the Philippines' government, demanding an apology over the fatal shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman.
The Taiwanese coastguard on Sunday dispatched four vessels to guard the disputed water where the shooting incident took place.
"The government is determined to protect our fishermen," cabinet spokeswoman Cheng Li-wen said in a statement as vessels headed towards the Bashi Strait, claimed by both governments, where the fisherman was killed on Thursday.
Ao Ming-wei, the captain of the coastguard vessel Tainan Jian said his vessel was prepared to face provocation and the crew would fire against possible threats.
Taiwan has demanded Manila apologise and compensate the victim's family or face a freeze on the hiring of its nationals.
It also asked the Philippines to bring to justice the coastguards responsible and start negotiating a fisheries agreement.
"If the Filipino government fails to respond in a positive manner within 72 hours, the hiring of Philippine workers will be frozen," presidential office spokeswoman Lee Chia-fei said on Saturday.
There are about 87,000 Philippine domestic helpers and other workers in Taiwan and they send home hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
Lee said other sanctions could include recalling the Taiwan ambassador to the Philippines and asking the Philippines ambassador to Taiwan to return to Manila to assist the investigation.
More than 50 bullets hit the ship, killing skipper Hung Shih-cheng.
"This is nothing but a slaughter," prosecutor Liu Chia-kai said after examining the ship.
Several fishermen's groups said they plan to file a protest at the Philippine mission in Taipei Monday."
The Philippine coast guard is a criminal organization that brutally murdered a helpless elderly Taiwanese fisherman. If the Taiwan coast guard finds the criminal Philippine coast guard ships in the Bashi Strait, we will exterminate the criminals.
Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English
"Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions
Government issues ultimatum to Manila following fatal shooting of Taiwanese fisherman in disputed water.
Last Modified: 13 May 2013 03:12
[(L) Taiwanese La Fayette frigate. (R) Taiwanese coast guard ship.]
Taiwan's government has issued a 72-hour ultimatum to the Philippines' government, demanding an apology over the fatal shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman.
The Taiwanese coastguard on Sunday dispatched four vessels to guard the disputed water where the shooting incident took place.
"The government is determined to protect our fishermen," cabinet spokeswoman Cheng Li-wen said in a statement as vessels headed towards the Bashi Strait, claimed by both governments, where the fisherman was killed on Thursday.
Ao Ming-wei, the captain of the coastguard vessel Tainan Jian said his vessel was prepared to face provocation and the crew would fire against possible threats.
Taiwan has demanded Manila apologise and compensate the victim's family or face a freeze on the hiring of its nationals.
It also asked the Philippines to bring to justice the coastguards responsible and start negotiating a fisheries agreement.
"If the Filipino government fails to respond in a positive manner within 72 hours, the hiring of Philippine workers will be frozen," presidential office spokeswoman Lee Chia-fei said on Saturday.
There are about 87,000 Philippine domestic helpers and other workers in Taiwan and they send home hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
Lee said other sanctions could include recalling the Taiwan ambassador to the Philippines and asking the Philippines ambassador to Taiwan to return to Manila to assist the investigation.
More than 50 bullets hit the ship, killing skipper Hung Shih-cheng.
"This is nothing but a slaughter," prosecutor Liu Chia-kai said after examining the ship.
Several fishermen's groups said they plan to file a protest at the Philippine mission in Taipei Monday."
Zero_wing
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- May 3, 2012
- Messages
- 4,296
- Reaction score
- -2
Taiwan coastguard vessel Tainan Jian will fire on Philippine coast guard thugs
Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions - Asia-Pacific - Al Jazeera English
"Taiwan threatens Philippines with sanctions
Government issues ultimatum to Manila following fatal shooting of Taiwanese fisherman in disputed water.
Last Modified: 13 May 2013 03:12
[(L) Taiwanese La Fayette frigate. (R) Taiwanese coast guard ship.]
Taiwan's government has issued a 72-hour ultimatum to the Philippines' government, demanding an apology over the fatal shooting of a Taiwanese fisherman.
The Taiwanese coastguard on Sunday dispatched four vessels to guard the disputed water where the shooting incident took place.
"The government is determined to protect our fishermen," cabinet spokeswoman Cheng Li-wen said in a statement as vessels headed towards the Bashi Strait, claimed by both governments, where the fisherman was killed on Thursday.
Ao Ming-wei, the captain of the coastguard vessel Tainan Jian said his vessel was prepared to face provocation and the crew would fire against possible threats.
Taiwan has demanded Manila apologise and compensate the victim's family or face a freeze on the hiring of its nationals.
It also asked the Philippines to bring to justice the coastguards responsible and start negotiating a fisheries agreement.
"If the Filipino government fails to respond in a positive manner within 72 hours, the hiring of Philippine workers will be frozen," presidential office spokeswoman Lee Chia-fei said on Saturday.
There are about 87,000 Philippine domestic helpers and other workers in Taiwan and they send home hundreds of millions of dollars a year.
Lee said other sanctions could include recalling the Taiwan ambassador to the Philippines and asking the Philippines ambassador to Taiwan to return to Manila to assist the investigation.
More than 50 bullets hit the ship, killing skipper Hung Shih-cheng.
"This is nothing but a slaughter," prosecutor Liu Chia-kai said after examining the ship.
Several fishermen's groups said they plan to file a protest at the Philippine mission in Taipei Monday."
Well that it fine that will teach you to steal from us
Martian2
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 5,809
- Reaction score
- -37
Taiwan has amassed four frigates to patrol the Bashi Channel
Taiwan's Navy is proving to the Philippines that Taiwan is the owner of the Bashi Channel, where the helpless elderly Taiwanese fisherman was brutally murdered by Philippine government coast guard thugs.
There are now four Taiwanese frigates in the Bashi Channel area: A Kidd-class warship, a Chengkung-class frigate, a Lafayette-class frigate, and a Knox-class frigate.
----------
Navy to have more frigates patrolling in waters south of Taiwan | Latest | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS
"Navy to have more frigates patrolling in waters south of Taiwan
By Elaine Hou
2013/05/13 12:19:25
Taipei, May 13 (CNA) Taiwan's Navy will send two more frigates to join ships already on patrol in waters south of Taiwan, following the recent attack by a Philippine government vessel on a Taiwanese fishing boat, a defense official said Monday.
A Kidd-class warship and a Chengkung-class frigate will be dispatched to join the two frigates already patrolling the Bashi Channel, and they will be incorporated into a military exercise set for waters south of Taiwan on May 16, Deputy Defense Minister Andrew Yang said.
The frigates will be sent to participate in the exercise and protect Taiwanese fishermen operating in the area, Yang said before attending a hearing of the Legislature's Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee.
On Sunday, the Navy said it had dispatched a Lafayette-class frigate to help the Coast Guard Administration (CGA) fulfill its mission to protect Taiwanese fishermen. The CGA has three vessels patrolling the area at present.
In addition to the Lafayette-class frigate, the Navy said it has a Knox-class frigate regularly patrol the waters south of Taiwan.
The moves to beef up protection for the fishermen came after the Taiwanese boat, Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28, was strafed by a joint patrol of the Philippine Coast Guard and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources while operating in the overlapping economic zones of the two countries on May 9.
A 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman, Hung Shih-cheng, was shot dead in the incident.
The Taiwan government has condemned the attack by the Philippines and demanded an official apology.
Foreign Minister David Lin, who was also to attend the hearing, again described as "unacceptable" a statement on Sunday by Abigail Valte, a spokeswoman for the Philippine Presidential Office, because it did not contain a formal apology.
Valte issued a statement offering the Philippines' "deepest sympathies and condolences" to the family of the victim, and she noted that the Philippine envoy to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, had already offered his apologies to the fisherman's family in person.
But that did not satisfy Taiwan's government.
"In such a case, this kind of apology is not enough. We are asking for an official apology from their government to our government," Lin said, reiterating that Taiwan's four demands to the Philippines remain unchanged.
Taiwan is asking the Philippines to issue a formal apology, compensate the victim's family for its loss, investigate the incident and punish the perpetrators, and open fishery agreement talks with Taiwan as soon as possible.
If Manila does not issue an appropriate response by midnight Tuesday, the Taiwan government said it will suspend the processing of applications by Filipinos seeking employment in Taiwan, recall its representative to the Philippines and request that the Philippines' representative to Taiwan return to Manila.
Lin also downplayed concerns that the Philippine government is more focused on the Philippine general election, being held today, than on Taiwan's demands.
The Philippines is evaluating the matter carefully and is expected to make a clear response Tuesday, the foreign minister said."
Taiwan's Navy is proving to the Philippines that Taiwan is the owner of the Bashi Channel, where the helpless elderly Taiwanese fisherman was brutally murdered by Philippine government coast guard thugs.
There are now four Taiwanese frigates in the Bashi Channel area: A Kidd-class warship, a Chengkung-class frigate, a Lafayette-class frigate, and a Knox-class frigate.
----------
Navy to have more frigates patrolling in waters south of Taiwan | Latest | FOCUS TAIWAN - CNA ENGLISH NEWS
"Navy to have more frigates patrolling in waters south of Taiwan
By Elaine Hou
2013/05/13 12:19:25
Taipei, May 13 (CNA) Taiwan's Navy will send two more frigates to join ships already on patrol in waters south of Taiwan, following the recent attack by a Philippine government vessel on a Taiwanese fishing boat, a defense official said Monday.
A Kidd-class warship and a Chengkung-class frigate will be dispatched to join the two frigates already patrolling the Bashi Channel, and they will be incorporated into a military exercise set for waters south of Taiwan on May 16, Deputy Defense Minister Andrew Yang said.
The frigates will be sent to participate in the exercise and protect Taiwanese fishermen operating in the area, Yang said before attending a hearing of the Legislature's Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee.
On Sunday, the Navy said it had dispatched a Lafayette-class frigate to help the Coast Guard Administration (CGA) fulfill its mission to protect Taiwanese fishermen. The CGA has three vessels patrolling the area at present.
In addition to the Lafayette-class frigate, the Navy said it has a Knox-class frigate regularly patrol the waters south of Taiwan.
The moves to beef up protection for the fishermen came after the Taiwanese boat, Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28, was strafed by a joint patrol of the Philippine Coast Guard and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources while operating in the overlapping economic zones of the two countries on May 9.
A 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman, Hung Shih-cheng, was shot dead in the incident.
The Taiwan government has condemned the attack by the Philippines and demanded an official apology.
Foreign Minister David Lin, who was also to attend the hearing, again described as "unacceptable" a statement on Sunday by Abigail Valte, a spokeswoman for the Philippine Presidential Office, because it did not contain a formal apology.
Valte issued a statement offering the Philippines' "deepest sympathies and condolences" to the family of the victim, and she noted that the Philippine envoy to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, had already offered his apologies to the fisherman's family in person.
But that did not satisfy Taiwan's government.
"In such a case, this kind of apology is not enough. We are asking for an official apology from their government to our government," Lin said, reiterating that Taiwan's four demands to the Philippines remain unchanged.
Taiwan is asking the Philippines to issue a formal apology, compensate the victim's family for its loss, investigate the incident and punish the perpetrators, and open fishery agreement talks with Taiwan as soon as possible.
If Manila does not issue an appropriate response by midnight Tuesday, the Taiwan government said it will suspend the processing of applications by Filipinos seeking employment in Taiwan, recall its representative to the Philippines and request that the Philippines' representative to Taiwan return to Manila.
Lin also downplayed concerns that the Philippine government is more focused on the Philippine general election, being held today, than on Taiwan's demands.
The Philippines is evaluating the matter carefully and is expected to make a clear response Tuesday, the foreign minister said."
p3avi8tor69
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2012
- Messages
- 289
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
If Taiwan shoots first then Taiwan will be the aggressors. Genius.
You shoot first and every nation on this planet except daddy Beijing will condemn Taiwan. Genius.
Taiwan shoots first and the U.S. congress will say, sheeyet, them Kuomintang are using American weapons to shoot another American ally. Time to reevaluate selling them our weapons.
But of course Ma and his buddies knows this so no shooting in the end unless the Pinoys shoot first. But Pinoy will not give you the satisfaction of shooting first.
All this for display and chest thumping and one month later back to same old sheeyet.
You shoot first and every nation on this planet except daddy Beijing will condemn Taiwan. Genius.
Taiwan shoots first and the U.S. congress will say, sheeyet, them Kuomintang are using American weapons to shoot another American ally. Time to reevaluate selling them our weapons.
But of course Ma and his buddies knows this so no shooting in the end unless the Pinoys shoot first. But Pinoy will not give you the satisfaction of shooting first.
All this for display and chest thumping and one month later back to same old sheeyet.
Soryu
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2012
- Messages
- 1,642
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
I think the same... Daddy still here, Taiwan just show off and done...
Soryu
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2012
- Messages
- 1,642
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
What did you mean!? my daddy was pass away... kidThey are your daddy too.
ManilaBoy45
FULL MEMBER
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2012
- Messages
- 273
- Reaction score
- 0
- Country
- Location
Martian2
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 5,809
- Reaction score
- -37
Taiwan can play Philippine government's excuse game
Taiwan will claim the Philippine ships were ramming the Taiwanese naval ships. Taiwanese fired warning shots that happened to all hit the Philippine ships. Just like the 52 large-caliber shots by the Philippine coast guard that killed the unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.
See? It's easy to make excuses when the other side is dead.
Taiwan will also withhold all video evidence like the Philippine government. We can play this game too.
Also, if the United States irritates Taiwan then we'll buy Chinese J-10s, Type 054 frigates, etc. Who needs overpriced American weapons? By the way, the modern La Fayette frigate is French.
How would you like Taiwan to allow mainland China to build major submarine, naval, and airforce bases on Taiwan to project power throughout East Asia?
Let's put Chinese ASBMs (anti-ship ballistic missiles) on Taiwan to control the high seas one-thousand miles from Taiwan's coast in all directions.
I'm sure Congress will be very pleased to hear that. The United States is not the only country with leverage in the U.S.-Taiwan relationship.
Martian2
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 5,809
- Reaction score
- -37
"The U.S. understands Taiwan's approach on the matter"
It looks like the United States has been kept fully informed that Taiwan intends to hold the Philippines accountable for the brutal murder of a defenseless and elderly Taiwanese fisherman.
----------
Philippine envoy to Taiwan back in Manila for 'important meeting' | Focus Taiwan News
"Philippine envoy to Taiwan back in Manila for 'important meeting'
By Elaine Hou
2013/05/13 15:22:25
The Philippines' representative Office in Taipei
Taipei, May 13 (CNA) The Philippines' representative to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, has flown back to Manila for a meeting that is expected to discuss mounting tensions between the two countries after a Philippine attack on a Taiwanese fishing boat May 9.
Basilio "returned to the Philippines in order to attend a very important meeting," said Foreign Minister David Lin Monday.
Lin said that according to his understanding, the meeting, to be held Monday afternoon, will focus on issues related to the attack, including Taiwan's demands for a formal apology and compensation.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Taiwan's representative to the Philippines, Raymond Wang, will stay in close contact with Basilio for updates on the situation, Lin said at a hearing of the Legislature's Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee.
Fielding questions on the dispute by lawmakers, Lin said the Philippines is expected to give a clear response to Taiwan's demands Tuesday.
The diplomatic row comes after a Taiwanese boat, Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28, was strafed by a joint patrol of the Philippine Coast Guard and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources while operating in the overlapping economic zones of the two countries.
A 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman, Hung Shih-cheng, was shot dead in the incident.
Taiwan is asking the Philippines to issue a formal apology, compensate the victim's family for its loss, investigate the incident and punish the perpetrators, and open fishery agreement talks with Taiwan as soon as possible.
If Manila does not issue an appropriate response by midnight Tuesday, the Taiwan government will "immediately" suspend the processing of applications by Filipinos seeking employment in Taiwan and recall its representative to the Philippines, Lin said.
Basilio visited the family of the deceased fisherman Saturday and offered an apology and his condolences after the damaged boat was towed back to Pingtung County, Lin said, but he noted that Taiwan is still demanding an official apology from the Philippine government.
The foreign minister did not rule out the possibility that further action could be taken against the Philippines.
Lin noted, meanwhile, that Taiwan has also been in touch with the United States on the incident and said the U.S. understands Taiwan's approach on the matter."
It looks like the United States has been kept fully informed that Taiwan intends to hold the Philippines accountable for the brutal murder of a defenseless and elderly Taiwanese fisherman.
----------
Philippine envoy to Taiwan back in Manila for 'important meeting' | Focus Taiwan News
"Philippine envoy to Taiwan back in Manila for 'important meeting'
By Elaine Hou
2013/05/13 15:22:25
The Philippines' representative Office in Taipei
Taipei, May 13 (CNA) The Philippines' representative to Taiwan, Antonio Basilio, has flown back to Manila for a meeting that is expected to discuss mounting tensions between the two countries after a Philippine attack on a Taiwanese fishing boat May 9.
Basilio "returned to the Philippines in order to attend a very important meeting," said Foreign Minister David Lin Monday.
Lin said that according to his understanding, the meeting, to be held Monday afternoon, will focus on issues related to the attack, including Taiwan's demands for a formal apology and compensation.
The Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Taiwan's representative to the Philippines, Raymond Wang, will stay in close contact with Basilio for updates on the situation, Lin said at a hearing of the Legislature's Foreign Affairs and National Defense Committee.
Fielding questions on the dispute by lawmakers, Lin said the Philippines is expected to give a clear response to Taiwan's demands Tuesday.
The diplomatic row comes after a Taiwanese boat, Kuang Ta Hsing No. 28, was strafed by a joint patrol of the Philippine Coast Guard and the Bureau of Fisheries and Aquatic Resources while operating in the overlapping economic zones of the two countries.
A 65-year-old Taiwanese fisherman, Hung Shih-cheng, was shot dead in the incident.
Taiwan is asking the Philippines to issue a formal apology, compensate the victim's family for its loss, investigate the incident and punish the perpetrators, and open fishery agreement talks with Taiwan as soon as possible.
If Manila does not issue an appropriate response by midnight Tuesday, the Taiwan government will "immediately" suspend the processing of applications by Filipinos seeking employment in Taiwan and recall its representative to the Philippines, Lin said.
Basilio visited the family of the deceased fisherman Saturday and offered an apology and his condolences after the damaged boat was towed back to Pingtung County, Lin said, but he noted that Taiwan is still demanding an official apology from the Philippine government.
The foreign minister did not rule out the possibility that further action could be taken against the Philippines.
Lin noted, meanwhile, that Taiwan has also been in touch with the United States on the incident and said the U.S. understands Taiwan's approach on the matter."
Martian2
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2009
- Messages
- 5,809
- Reaction score
- -37
U.S. failure to immediately denounce Philippines has pushed Taiwan closer to China
The United States has made a serious geopolitical mistake. The U.S. should have immediately and forcefully denounced the Philippine coast guard crime against humanity in murdering an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.
The logic is simple. The Philippines is a captive audience. The Philippines has no place to go.
The situation is different for Taiwan. If the Big Guy won't help us, perhaps we should turn to the other Big Guy.
----------
Vast majority for joint action: poll - CHINA - Globaltimes.cn
"Vast majority for joint action: poll
Global Times | 2013-5-13 0:53:01
By Global Times
The majority of respondents from both the Chinese mainland and Taiwan agree that the two sides should cooperate to pressure the Philippines, which refuses to apologize after a Philippine navy vessel shot a Taiwanese fisherman dead on Thursday, a survey has found.
More than 92 percent of respondents from seven mainland cities are in favor of such cooperation, as compared with 68.7 percent from Taiwan, where 21.2 percent expressed objections, according to a survey jointly conducted by the Global Poll Center under the Global Times and the Taiwan-based China Times Public Opinion Poll Center.
In terms of possible countermeasures, 61.4 percent of mainlanders are inclined to exert diplomatic pressure on the Philippines, followed by economic sanctions and a tourism boycott. Taiwan favored economic sanctions, such as rejecting Filipino laborers.
When asked if the Taiwan authorities are capable of maintaining fishermen's interests, 51.4 percent of mainland respondents held a negative attitude, shared by more than 49 percent of Taiwanese respondents. About 59 percent believe the mainland should continue to seek cooperation even if overtures are rejected.
In addition, 48.3 percent believe that a blow to the Philippines is conducive to solving the maritime disputes with Vietnam, Japan and other countries, while 16.5 percent think such action may prompt the US to further interfere with South China Sea issues."
The United States has made a serious geopolitical mistake. The U.S. should have immediately and forcefully denounced the Philippine coast guard crime against humanity in murdering an unarmed Taiwanese fisherman.
The logic is simple. The Philippines is a captive audience. The Philippines has no place to go.
The situation is different for Taiwan. If the Big Guy won't help us, perhaps we should turn to the other Big Guy.
----------
Vast majority for joint action: poll - CHINA - Globaltimes.cn
"Vast majority for joint action: poll
Global Times | 2013-5-13 0:53:01
By Global Times
The majority of respondents from both the Chinese mainland and Taiwan agree that the two sides should cooperate to pressure the Philippines, which refuses to apologize after a Philippine navy vessel shot a Taiwanese fisherman dead on Thursday, a survey has found.
More than 92 percent of respondents from seven mainland cities are in favor of such cooperation, as compared with 68.7 percent from Taiwan, where 21.2 percent expressed objections, according to a survey jointly conducted by the Global Poll Center under the Global Times and the Taiwan-based China Times Public Opinion Poll Center.
In terms of possible countermeasures, 61.4 percent of mainlanders are inclined to exert diplomatic pressure on the Philippines, followed by economic sanctions and a tourism boycott. Taiwan favored economic sanctions, such as rejecting Filipino laborers.
When asked if the Taiwan authorities are capable of maintaining fishermen's interests, 51.4 percent of mainland respondents held a negative attitude, shared by more than 49 percent of Taiwanese respondents. About 59 percent believe the mainland should continue to seek cooperation even if overtures are rejected.
In addition, 48.3 percent believe that a blow to the Philippines is conducive to solving the maritime disputes with Vietnam, Japan and other countries, while 16.5 percent think such action may prompt the US to further interfere with South China Sea issues."
tvsram1992
SENIOR MEMBER
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2010
- Messages
- 3,808
- Reaction score
- -1
Why so 19.5 years ?
Similar threads
- Locked
