Tagore, The Islamophobe....

[DarkPrince]

too much trolling going on here

 

[scorpionx]

I would really like to see a link from a much more "tagorish" website rather than a very communal one. A tagore appreciating website would be more appropriate to discern the authenticity of this.

The usual and popular practice of extremist quarters both Hindu and Muslims is to quote RabindraNath and condemn one another. Problem is these illiterates do not and never try to read Tagore’s excellent masterpieces. Apart from his novels, poems and songs his personal life, his opinion about religion, society, foreign affairs are subjected to intense study.

In his lecture “Religion of Man” delivered in 1930 at Manchester College, Oxford, he extravagantly reserves his praises for the Bauls (Mystic philosophers whose idea about Godly affairs often converges with Sufism) and he was deeply influenced by the thoughts of Kabir. Tagore says,”Coming from men who are unsophisticated, living a simple life in obscurity, it gives us a clue of the inner meaning of all religions. For it suggests that these religions are never about a God of cosmic force,but rather about the God of human personality.”

Partition of Bengal in 1905 had remarkable effect on Tagore’s mind and his works as well. He, during this time dreamt to build a “Mahajati”, great nation irrespective of all religion and against all traditionalism and medieval orthodoxy. His great novels during this time like Gora, poems like Bharata Tirtha,Apamanito etc were broadly based on the spirit of humanity.

You can also assume his thinking about Islam when he harshly condemned Gandhi for his Khilafat Movement which Tagore thought further alienate the Muslims from the concept of United India. I won't be surprised if you draw a distant parallel with Iqbal's thoughts here.

I have no idea exactly which incidents impelled him to change his thoughts about other religion in the last days of his life but surely it will be a grave injustice if we judge him with some random remarks. Tagore himself is an institution and calling him Islamophobe will be like showing someone a picture of Tajmahal and tell,”Look, this is India.!!”

You can read more about him in this book,Social Thoughts of Rabindranath Tagore;A Historical Analysis by Tapati Dasgupta

Also his Hibbert lectures in Oxford is very insightful.

The Religion Of Man Being The Hibbert Lectures For 1930 : Rabindranath Tagore : Free Download & Streaming : Internet Archive

 

[Skies]

Now THAT is called patriotism

Yes, that is called patritism, I love to see my country in a way that I love, because I love my country. It's like I love a song, and I love my country, so I want that song to be the anthem of my country.

Why I would not share the best thing I love with my beloved country?!

 

[Pakistani E]

What does kafir mean ? What I know it means 'non believer of God'! The term Kafir is used by Muslims to address non Muslims. How dare they do that? Do they not know that other religions also believe in God? Did we ever hear a non Muslim using this word? No we never heard and there lies the problem. People need to be tolerant towards other religions else God save them!

Nope, The literal meaning is to conceal or cover. a kafir is actually someone who understands the beliefs of Islam fully yet still chooses to reject it. It is a word to describe someone, just like the word "Muslim" is anyone who submits to the will of God. And there are different standards of Kufr. A person can be a muslim yet also rejects some beliefs of Islam, he would be committing Kufr in the sense that he has chosen to reject some of its beliefs.

So please, Don't take it personally. Kafir is just a descriptive term. Although I do understand that some extremists use that word in a derogatory manner. But that still doesn't change its original meaning.

I know the word Kafir itself is not abusive. It just means rejecter, disbeliever, unbeliever but the way its used by some men is abusive to others as if its used to give a gali to non Muslims.

So can people who have no understanding of the word kafir stop saying that it is a abusive word? Just like some idiots use the word gentile. Too many people in this word are just out to get "offended". They should learn to man up.

 

[scorpionx]

So can people who have no understanding of the word kafir stop saying that it is a abusive word? Just like some idiots use the word gentile. Too many people in this word are just out to get "offended". They should learn to man up.

Thank you. Never knew this word has been so much misinterpreted and misused by extremists.

 

[Pakistani E]

Thank you. Never knew this word has been so much misinterpreted and misused by extremists.

How else will they run their politically manipulated "jihads" without first manipulating the religion itself.

 

[IamBengali]

Nope, The literal meaning is to conceal or cover. a kafir is actually someone who understands the beliefs of Islam fully yet still chooses to reject it. It is a word to describe someone, just like the word "Muslim" is anyone who submits to the will of God. And there are different standards of Kufr. A person can be a muslim yet also rejects some beliefs of Islam, he would be committing Kufr in the sense that he has chosen to reject some of its beliefs.

So please, Don't take it personally. Kafir is just a descriptive term. Although I do understand that some extremists use that word in a derogatory manner. But that still doesn't change its original meaning.



So can people who have no understanding of the word kafir stop saying that it is a abusive word? Just like some idiots use the word gentile. Too many people in this word are just out to get "offended". They should learn to man up.

You can not tag someone with any specific word in a way to abuse him. When you say , Hey Muslim listen that is also abusive to a Muslim ! If I say to a Hindu, Hey Mushrik listen that is also an abusive term to that Hindu. Kafir is a very strong word. You can not use this term unless you are completely sure that the person is Kafir. In a Bukhari hadith prophet said, 'Do NOT call others Kafir. If he is not Kafir then the word will turn back to You.'

 

[bronxbull]

Someone said you were South Indian, so can I ask where your experiences of Bengalis are from? I am guessing that you might be in the US with an username like 'bronxbull'.

My own impression is that Bengalis show minor mongoloid admixture (other than the tribals), usually most prominent around the eyes. Yes, a few here and there show quite robust signs of admixture but generally I would say its mostly superficial. It's the Nepalis and Northeast Indians who generally show strong signs of admixture. Most are an in between race of Indian and Mongoloid.

I think, as you point out, people tend to exaggerate signs of admixtures in people when they know they have bit of it.

Can you please also explain what you meant by this line "But as someone said here,I have seen bangladeshi people also,all 3 races exist in Bengal."

Earlier I showed a link to the Bangladeshi football team. In your judgement, how strong is the Mongoloid admixture in these players?

http://paradiseintheworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/bangladesh-football-team-2012.jpg

Mongloid admixture is obvious,today we have like/dislike towards certain features/admixture or whatever.

But 500 years ago,people chose their spouses amidst more pressing issues.

Bengalis do show more admixture than others,including Bangladeshis.

That football team guys have some admixture but i see more admixture is people like nusrat fateh ali khan/imran khan niazi.

Nepalis show more admixture because they are a product of 2 races,ANI & Tibetans alone.

Bengal,u have all 3 and burmese too,that makes a mix of 3-4.

so like i said,bangladeshis or bengalis do come in all shapes n sizes and i also agree that there is a huge difference between people of the bengali plains/delta to the north eastern mountain people who rarely mixed outside their quams.

Assamese are also like that,less admixture.

I have lived in Australia/Dubai and now in India and there are many bangladeshi people in Bangalore too,my maid used to be bangladeshi.

bronxbull is the robert de niro movie,Raging Bull.

I am a huge fan of that flick.

Rabindranath Tagore represented a religious class that suppressed Muslims in Bengal for a long time, and that class was instrumental in changing the cultural makeup of Bengal by changing as many Muslim elements as they could. and when a personality and literary works like that are slapped against Muslims to adopt as their own, it does not go down well with them for historical connotations.
it shouldn't matter if i master J. Sebastian Bach numbers for personal interests but promoting that as a sole marker of my cultural-ethnic identity is essentially colonization.
I applaud that R. Tagore brought respect to Bengali language, but it's Hindu-Bengali language we are talking about here. it was the language made by Brahmins and for Brahmins, a non-Hindu has never historically seen that as anything but a solely Hindu language or a part of what Hindus practiced for that reason. so R. Tagore had a great contribution for Hindus. his irrelevance to Muslims should be clear


how many of them were Bangladeshis?

so many in dubai and all types,

cab drivers/peons/white colalr folks/hindus/NRI bangaldeshis and so on....

 

[Pakistani E]

You can not tag someone with any specific word in a way to abuse him. When you say , Hey Muslim listen that is also abusive to a Muslim ! If I say to a Hindu, Hey Mushrik listen that is also an abusive term to that Hindu. Kafir is a very strong word. You can not use this term unless you are completely sure that the person is Kafir. In a Bukhari hadith prophet said, 'Do NOT call others Kafir. If he is not Kafir then the word will turn back to You.'

You are preaching to the wrong choir.

 

[DRaisinHerald]

I applaud that R. Tagore brought respect to Bengali language, but it's Hindu-Bengali language we are talking about here. it was the language made by Brahmins and for Brahmins, a non-Hindu has never historically seen that as anything but a solely Hindu language or a part of what Hindus practiced for that reason. so R. Tagore had a great contribution for Hindus. his irrelevance to Muslims should be clear


how many of them were Bangladeshis?

Wait, what? You're calling the Bengali language 'Hindu'; despite the fact that the majority of speakers are Muslims?

 

[scholseys]

Nauzubillah. No, there is no teaching of such. Kafir just means those who reject Islam. There is a sura (chapter) in Quran. Sura Kafirun. It says, Our religion is ours, Kafirs have their religion (deen / way of life). Let there be no compulsion regarding religion.

You are preaching to the wrong choir.

our bengali secular extremists are more hindu than hindus.

 

[bronxbull]

Every South Asian have ASI, hell even Afghans have ASI so i never denied Pakistanis not having ASI. Rig Veda was composed in our pure land by pure people. No wonder the same land later on will produce Baba Farid.

And yes Bengali and South Indian brahmins have been mixing with locals, no one can deny that. But there are genetic differences between both groups which shows in phenotype also on average.

with all due respect again,

The people who wrote the Rig ved were mentally pure and that matters more than their racial identity.

 

[Zahur Ahmed Chowdhury]

Mongloid admixture is obvious,today we have like/dislike towards certain features/admixture or whatever.

But 500 years ago,people chose their spouses amidst more pressing issues.

Bengalis do show more admixture than others,including Bangladeshis.

That football team guys have some admixture but i see more admixture is people like nusrat fateh ali khan/imran khan niazi.

Nepalis show more admixture because they are a product of 2 races,ANI & Tibetans alone.

Bengal,u have all 3 and burmese too,that makes a mix of 3-4.

so like i said,bangladeshis or bengalis do come in all shapes n sizes and i also agree that there is a huge difference between people of the bengali plains/delta to the north eastern mountain people who rarely mixed outside their quams.

Assamese are also like that,less admixture.

I have lived in Australia/Dubai and now in India and there are many bangladeshi people in Bangalore too,my maid used to be bangladeshi.

bronxbull is the robert de niro movie,Raging Bull.

I am a huge fan of that flick.



so many in dubai and all types,

cab drivers/peons/white colalr folks/hindus/NRI bangaldeshis and so on....

I thought your username might have something to do with the Bronx in New York (although, the film might also have something to do with the Bronx in NY)

Yes, I see strong admixture on Fateh Ali Khan and some on Imran Khan (the cricketer) as well. But Imran was a handsome man with very Europoid features. I have seen him classified by some white people for passing in parts of Europe, including even Britain.

 

[EasyNow]

my flags are all Bangladesh, malaun.

Well done, you've shown your breeding.

Don't come and talk shit after putting up flags when you've had to be told to so.

p.s. i can call you names and i imagine they'd probably ring true too - but we are here to discuss points of view, not arguing in a fish market. Don't act like a tough guy sitting on your computer because it is pointless, if you've nothing to say just be quiet.

 

[dawn_news]

with all due respect again,

The people who wrote the Rig ved were mentally pure and that matters more than their racial identity.

Rig Vedic poets were racially pure. The same land will produce Baba Farid later on who was mentally pure.