What's new

Tablighi Jamaat: Jihad's Stealthy Legions

so you are denigrating pakistani society based on hearsay. While sitting in the U.S.

You say you are generalising while admitting they are actions of a minority. Wouldn't you think it is a bit unfair on Pakistanis for you to do so?

Pakistan is probably the most well balanced of muslim societies in the world. There is freedom, but people are not "out there", so to speak. There maybe young men and women that may seem "westernised" and "fashionable", but they are more aware of their boundaries and culture than you might think.

As for the burqa clad clandestine moments, that might be an isolated incident, but so what? Do you think, just wearing a cloth, or growin facial hair will bestow modesty and upright character upon someone? There maybe millions of girls, who maybe don't wear a burqa, but modesty is in their gaze and mannerisms, their thoughts and actions.

You yourself suggested you wanted to get to know someone before marrying, yet when young people in Pakistan may meet up in mcdonalds, or a library for that purpose, you come out with this fornicating in the parks claptrap. If someone was being unkind, he might call this hypocrisy.

And as for the comment by our other friend about french beach, karachi. Common people don't have access to that place, so I doubt you witnessed any sordid acts going on there.

For comparison, try the beaches of Tunisia, Morocco, Turkey and Sharm Al Shaikh.

Then you will realise the true value of Pakistani culture.
 
.
yes, I've seen girls in burqa dating boys, of course they took it off. obviously, they left their homes in burqa, and took it off later? no one said they were fornicating in parks, but our friend Dimension can confirm they are doing it in 9internet cafes, he even mentioned the availability of videos on youtube.

I never meant people had pre-marital sex in a literal sense, I base that off of information I get from friends and their perceptions of the current situation of Pakistan. as far as I'm concerned, I'm not slandering since I don't know the names of anyone of these people fornicating or simply dating, nor do I know them, nor do I remember their faces. I'm giving a generalizing view, of course these people involved in acts are still a minority even amongst teens in Pakistan.

why did I not stop them? my friends warned me about Musharraf's laws regarding women, not that I knew what they were or what I could possibly be violating. Not wanting to risk anything during my visit, I decided to stay cool.

Exactly! They were doing it in Mazar E Quaid as shown in the video. Did you see the video???

And what about heera mandi in Lahore? Till when will this pimps vs prostitutes business continue? Infact theres a big chance hypocrate Maulvis like Fazl Ur Rehman supports the practice thats why it still takes place. Why does'nt Fazlur rehman close down this brothel instead of hoarding anti pakistani sentiment across pakistan?

This appeared in CDRS:
Maulvi Fazl Ur Reman spotted near Heera Mandi
 
.
Exactly! They were doing it in Mazar E Quaid as shown in the video. Did you see the video???

And what about heera mandi in Lahore? Till when will this pimps vs prostitutes business continue? Infact theres a big chance hypocrate Maulvis like Fazl Ur Rehman supports the practice thats why it still takes place. Why does'nt Fazlur rehman close down this brothel instead of hoarding anti pakistani sentiment across pakistan?

This appeared in CDRS:
Maulvi Fazl Ur Reman spotted near Heera Mandi

I didn't know you were on mission to destroy the oldest profession on earth. Heera Mandi is not what it was, and most of those there were hounded out during Zia ul haq's era. That turned out to be a mistake, as they shifted to fashionable areas of Lahore. Those with money ended up in Gulberg, Model Town while those of more modest means settled for newer places like iqbal town, etc. This proved to be a bonanza for the flesh industry, as they started operating within mohallas. Now one didn't have to suffer teh ignomity of visiting a "red light" district any more.

No country can legislate against what happens between two consenting adults. If they do, the exercise is futile.

Heera Mandi, also called Shahi Muhalla, the King's Quarters, have been in that area for centuries, and is now more a place for curious visitors, than any real "tamash beens". In fact, Lahore's most famous "Phajjay ka paye", and best "Haqq kay paye" are to be found in Hira mandi, which is very close to Badshahi mosque.

The only way prostitution can be curbed, if the "banging" "getting laid" " fornicate" mentality that people like you are so obsessed about gives way to moral and civic notions of healthy relationships based upon love and marriage.
 
.
so you are denigrating pakistani society based on hearsay. While sitting in the U.S.

You say you are generalising while admitting they are actions of a minority. Wouldn't you think it is a bit unfair on Pakistanis for you to do so?

Pakistan is probably the most well balanced of muslim societies in the world. There is freedom, but people are not "out there", so to speak. There maybe young men and women that may seem "westernised" and "fashionable", but they are more aware of their boundaries and culture than you might think.

As for the burqa clad clandestine moments, that might be an isolated incident, but so what? Do you think, just wearing a cloth, or growin facial hair will bestow modesty and upright character upon someone? There maybe millions of girls, who maybe don't wear a burqa, but modesty is in their gaze and mannerisms, their thoughts and actions.

You yourself suggested you wanted to get to know someone before marrying, yet when young people in Pakistan may meet up in mcdonalds, or a library for that purpose, you come out with this fornicating in the parks claptrap.

And as for the comment by our other friend about french beach, karachi. Common people don't have access to that place, so I doubt you witnessed any sordid acts going on there.

For comparison, try the beaches of Tunisia, Morocco, Turkey and Sharm Al Shaikh.

Then you will realise the true value of Pakistani culture.

Mate its just us Pakistanis here. I agree with you in that these things should not be spread or used f4 our personal satisfaction or tafree for pyarey bachey like me... :tongue:

But seriously until these problems are raised and people are willing to accept that they exist their elimination is impossible. Really we seek to deny or hide these things which will result in nothing productive. Why is heera mandi still there? Whole buses filled with highschool students buy condoms in karachi and decide to go to heera mandi in lahore just for personal satisfaction. Why heera mandi actually exists? Everyone knows young girls are kidnapped from their houses and sent to heera mandi to work for these waderas sardars and other gunda mawalis...

However I do agree if a hypocritical maulvi tries to degrade pakistan in its name (eg abdur rehman green the idiot who gave anti pakistani speech about pakistan being an anti islamic nation) then we should be willing to respond properly and should not present these actions that are as u said practiced by a tiny minority...

And how to be more respective of male female relationships? Can you please explain? :agree:
 
.
I didn't know you were on mission to destroy the oldest profession on earth. Heera Mandi is not what it was, and most of those there were hounded out during Zia ul haq's era. That turned out to be a mistake, as they shifted to fashionable areas of Lahore. Those with money ended up in Gulberg, Model Town while those of more modest means settled for newer places like iqbal town, etc. This proved to be a bonanza for the flesh industry, as they started operating within mohallas. Now one didn't have to suffer teh ignomity of visiting a "red light" district any more.

No country can legislate against what happens between two consenting adults. If they do, the exercise is futile.

Heera Mandi, also called Shahi Muhalla, the King's Quarters, have been in that area for centuries, and is now more a place for curious visitors, than any real "tamash beens". In fact, Lahore's most famous "Phajjay ka paye", and best "Haqq kay paye" are to be found in Hira mandi, which is very close to Badshahi mosque.

The only way prostitution can be curbed, if the "banging" "getting laid" " fornicate" mentality that people like you are so obsessed about gives way to moral and civic notions of healthy relationships based upon love and marriage.

Yes but how to curb this mentality with heera mandi there sitting there to give bad influence on minds of youngsters?......

And you better ask asad ul islam. He was talking about banging and getting laid not me. :angel:
 
.
Why is heera mandi still there? Whole buses filled with highschool students buy condoms in karachi and decide to go to heera mandi in lahore just for personal satisfaction. Why heera mandi actually exists?

As opposed to just visiting Napier Road, which is a red light district in Karachi, bigger than Heera Mandi? Where do you get this stuff from? People from all over Pakistan go to heera mandi, to satisfy their curiosity. This has been happening for more than a thousand years.

However, most people like that are fleeced by both the pimps/prostitutes, and the police who are in collusion with them. Once you pay them money, instead of a leg-over, they call the police, who arrest the said young persons, give them a good hiding, and demand money to be released.

So my advice is, please don't go to heera mandi looking for carnal gratification. You'll be in for a rude surprise.

Everyone knows young girls are kidnapped from their houses and sent to heera mandi to work for these waderas sardars and other gunda mawalis...

Hey, I think you are confusing Nepal, and Mumbai's brothel girls with Pakistan. Many of these women have been in this business for generations, and some proudly claim to be "khandani tawaif". There is no such abduction going on in Pakistan. There are plenty of people who are willing to earn a fast buck, especially foreign women. Pakistan is awash with such women from Russia, central asia, and some parts of Afghanistan. They're earning good money, and certainly don't seem to be forced into anything. Hell, they own much of prime real estate in Islamabad, Peshawar and even Lahore.

As for waderas,sardars? what do they have to do with heera mandi and prostitution, i have no idea. you seem to be confusing a lot of issues here.

The gunda's of lahore have many businesses, but prostituion is not one of them. Yes, there is a fashion among some of them to summon such women to dance at wedding parties and other functions, but they do not engage in pimpery themselves. I doubt you know anything about gundas of lahore, or you wouldn't say this. Ask about Tipu Pehlwan, Gogi butt, and other badmash/gangsters of lahore, from someone who knows before showing your ignorance here.

And how to be more respective of male female relationships? Can you please explain? :agree:

Hey, now that would be telling. I can't teach everything in a day, now can I?:azn:
 
.
darkStar, I have respect for you so I'm not going to argue anymore on this. I do hope you realize that I'm young and I still maintain my 'slang' dictionary. of course, when I said 'banging girls', I was abhorring the act, not encouraging it.

as for intimate relations between man and women, I don't have a problem when it comes to husband and wife, but I do have a serious problem with people fornicating or at least close to doing so. I'd rather give such acts derogatory descriptions such as 'banging' or 'screwing'.

i myself am not an old fogey yet. Using "slang" is well and good, when you are jesting among friends. I daresay I could use some of that slang, and even more besides. But this is a serious forum, and you like to represent yourself as a champion of Islam.

You talk about Pakistani girls lacking modesty, but I see your speech lacking modesty. If women are told to cover their bosoms, then men are ordered to lower their gaze in Al Qur'aan.

Islam has no problem with people fornicating, so I don't know what your business is. There is a famous tradition of a woman coming upto the Prophet of Islam, admitting adultery. He cotinually shook his head, refusing to even listen to her.

The only legislation the sharia has is regarding fornication/adultery in the presence of so many people, that four upright and truthful men can claim to have seen the actual process of penetration. This rule is so as to protect society from the wider ills of fornication, not the fornication itself. As a sin ia matter between teh sinner and his/her God.

With study of Islam, you will see that almost all state punishments are for sins/acts which expounge on others, when other peoples rights/sensibilities are undermined.

I suggest you get over this hangup, and quit obsessing about what people do in the privacy of their homes (or wherever they chose to do so).

Don't think of my words as harsh, but think of it as Naseehah (advice). As the Prophet of Islam is reported to have said, "Addeenu Naseehah" REligion is advice.
 
.
i myself am not an old fogey yet. Using "slang" is well and good, when you are jesting among friends. I daresay I could use some of that slang, and even more besides. But this is a serious forum, and you like to represent yourself as a champion of Islam.

You talk about Pakistani girls lacking modesty, but I see your speech lacking modesty. If women are told to cover their bosoms, then men are ordered to lower their gaze in Al Qur'aan.

Islam has no problem with people fornicating, so I don't know what your business is. There is a famous tradition of a woman coming upto the Prophet of Islam, admitting adultery. He cotinually shook his head, refusing to even listen to her.

The only legislation the sharia has is regarding fornication/adultery in the presence of so many people, that four upright and truthful men can claim to have seen the actual process of penetration. This rule is so as to protect society from the wider ills of fornication, not the fornication itself. As a sin ia matter between teh sinner and his/her God.

With study of Islam, you will see that almost all state punishments are for sins/acts which expounge on others, when other peoples rights/sensibilities are undermined.

I suggest you get over this hangup, and quit obsessing about what people do in the privacy of their homes (or wherever they chose to do so).

Don't think of my words as harsh, but think of it as Naseehah (advice). As the Prophet of Islam is reported to have said, "Addeenu Naseehah" REligion is advice.
I think you've gone too far with this. if you felt that I have done something terribly wrong, it still was not necessary for you to reveal those faults (if I had done any) on a public forum. in Sahih Muslim, a hadith relates the following:

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: The servant (who conceals) the faults of others in this world, Allah
would conceal his faults on the Day of Resurrection.


There was absolutely no need for you to do that. I chose to leave the conversation because of the sudden increase in intensity, which was perhaps the best thing to do since arguing is never encouraged. I'm sure you've heard of this hadith somewhere?

In Abu Dawud a hadith relates the following:

"Abu Umamah Al-Bahili (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said,

I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannah for one who has good manners.''

was this an act of giving 'naseeha' or advice to me? Naseeha is something you give to people in private, you do not scold people in open public.

I chose to use 'slang' words, specifically, on purpose. have you considered which audience I was targeting? Certainly it wasn't you, it was the younger generation, my age group to be more specific. I'm not going to spend time writing long paragraphs explaining in detail why dating is haraam. Instead, I just passed a joke with someone and, at the same time, warned them.

as for sin being something that is only between the Lord and His servant, that is true, only Allah can forgive sins. However, there is nothing stopping you from feeling shame or having a sense of 'ghairah' when an act as terrible as 'zina' is committed.

There is the famous hadith, of Sa’d ibn ‘Ubaadah, when he said,
"If I were to see a man with my wife, I would strike him with
the sharp edge of a sword!" The Prophet sallallahu ‘alaihi wa
sallam said, "Are you amazed at the jealousy (ghairah) of Sa'd?
We are more jealous than him, and Allah is more jealous than me.
"
(Reported by al-Bukhari)

Now these women may not be my wives or anyone close, but I certainly do have the right for 'guarding' their chastisy since they are my sisters in Islam. You were right, I should have done something to stop it and unfortunately, I could not for the reasons I explained earlier. That is why I can guarantee you, the next time I show up in Pakistan, it will be WWIII if I see dating in the park in front of my house.

As I had mentioned earlier, there have already been proven cases of zina and the witnesses are thousands of viewers on youtube. Fornication happens in internet cafes and is recorded, although it can happen elsewhere. I do not need four witnesses, since I mentioned earlier, I did not name anyone. That basically means I have not accused anyone at all, thus, there was no reason for anyone here to get serious.

I'm not concerned with parading around as the 'champion of Islam', I adopted this username for no serious reason at all. I don't see the problem in that, unless you have a hadith to back yourself up.
 
.
New Age Islam: Mapping an Agenda for the Twenty-first Century................Islam and terrorism, Political Islam and the west, Radical Islamism and the West, Islamic extremism in Pakistan, Islamic fundamentalism, Modern secular moderate Islam, Kashm

MOLWI MASOOD AALAM NADWI writes in his well known book "Muhammad Ibnê Abdul Wahab" - on the side commentary: "The Southern part of Najd has the famous town of Riyadh, the Capital of his (Wahabi) headquarters in Dariya. Both these villages are in the valley called Waadi Hanifa (situated in Najd)." (Pp/16)

Allama Dahlaan has quoted these Ahadith from the Sihaah: The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "During the initial part of my Dawah in Mecca, I particularly invited the outside tribes who used to arrive during the Hajj season. From all these tribes the most hostile and ugly reaction was from the Banu Hanifa tribe." (The same tribe in, which Ibn-e-Abdul Wahab was born. He founded Wahabism which is being followed by the Tableeghi Jamaat) (Addarus Sunniah, pp/52)
He quotes a further Hadith: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddiq (Radiallahu Anhu) reports that the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "From the tribes that live in Waadi Hanifa, fine shall emerge till the final era. That valley shall be notorious for its fine because of the rise of false leaders." (Pp/52)
Hazrat Imraan, the son of Hazrat Haseen (Radiallahu Anhu) reports that the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) disliked three tribes life long. (1) Banu Saqeef (2) Banu Hanifa (3) Banu Umayya (Tirmizi Shareef)


Introduction: New Age Islam: Mapping an Agenda for the Twenty-first Century................Islam and terrorism, Political Islam and the west, Radical Islamism and the West, Islamic extremism in Pakistan, Islamic fundamentalism, Modern secular moderate Islam, Kashm
Chapter 1: New Age Islam: Mapping an Agenda for the Twenty-first Century................Islam and terrorism, Political Islam and the west, Radical Islamism and the West, Islamic extremism in Pakistan, Islamic fundamentalism, Modern secular moderate Islam, Kashm
Chapter 2: New Age Islam: Mapping an Agenda for the Twenty-first Century................Islam and terrorism, Political Islam and the west, Radical Islamism and the West, Islamic extremism in Pakistan, Islamic fundamentalism, Modern secular moderate Islam, Kashm
Chapter 3: New Age Islam: Mapping an Agenda for the Twenty-first Century................Islam and terrorism, Political Islam and the west, Radical Islamism and the West, Islamic extremism in Pakistan, Islamic fundamentalism, Modern secular moderate Islam, Kashm
Chapter 4: New Age Islam: Mapping an Agenda for the Twenty-first Century................Islam and terrorism, Political Islam and the west, Radical Islamism and the West, Islamic extremism in Pakistan, Islamic fundamentalism, Modern secular moderate Islam, Kashm
Chapter 5: New Age Islam: Mapping an Agenda for the Twenty-first Century................Islam and terrorism, Political Islam and the west, Radical Islamism and the West, Islamic extremism in Pakistan, Islamic fundamentalism, Modern secular moderate Islam, Kashm
Chapter 6: New Age Islam: Mapping an Agenda for the Twenty-first Century................Islam and terrorism, Political Islam and the west, Radical Islamism and the West, Islamic extremism in Pakistan, Islamic fundamentalism, Modern secular moderate Islam, Kashm
Chapter 7: New Age Islam: Mapping an Agenda for the Twenty-first Century................Islam and terrorism, Political Islam and the west, Radical Islamism and the West, Islamic extremism in Pakistan, Islamic fundamentalism, Modern secular moderate Islam, Kashm
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHAPTER 8: TABLEEGHI JAMAAT IN THE HADITH by Maulana Arshadul Qadri


The Holy Prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) has prophesied that many individuals and religious sects will cause dissension and mischief till the Day of Judgment. He has made a particular reference to the Wahabi Movement.
Hazrat Abu Huzaifa (Radiallahu Anhu) narrates a Hadith concerning the leaders of the mischief makers: "I swear by Allah that the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) has not left out a single leader of Fitna from this day to the Day of Qiyamah. Their followers would number 300 or more and further gave their names and that of their tribe." (Abu Dawood)
FIRST HADITH
Imam Bukhari (Radiallahu Anhu) quotes this Hadith from Abdullah ibn Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) that the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) once prayed for Syria (Shaam) and Yemen. It is narrated that there were some people of Najd also present in the gathering and requested the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) to make Dua for Najd also. The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) continued saying: "0! Allah, Shower Blessings on Shaam and Yemen." The people of Najd again requested the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) to offer prayers for Najd. The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "It is a place of tremor and Fitna (Mischief) and the horn of Shaitaan will rise from there." (Bukhari Shareef)
It can be deduced from the above Hadith that Najd is neither blessed nor a good place but one of Fitna and Evil. Najd has been deprived of the prayers of the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and therefore has the seal of misery and misfortune and hoping for any good from there is going against the Will of Allah.
The Arabic word used in the above Hadith is Qarnush Shaitaan, which normally means the horn of Shaitaan. But the ‘Misbahul Lughaat’, a dictionary printed in Deoband has the following meaning: "One who follows the advice of Shaitaan." (Misbahul Lughaat, pp/663). Thus we learn that a Najdi/Wahabi group will emerge, as pointed out by Rasoolullah (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and this group will follow the advice of Shaitaan (Shaitaan refuses to respect Prophets and Saints, remember his refusal to bow to Hazrat Adam - Alayhis Salaam - as mentioned in the Quran.). It will create havoc in the Muslim world. We are now witnessing the emergence of the Wahabis who, with the assistance of petro-dollars, are sweeping the Muslim world and are bribing them into accepting Wahabism as the official version of Islam. Wahabism is a disease but so many are misled into believing that it is curing the Ummah of Shirk, Kufr and Bidah. It is being portrayed as a revivalist movement. This is against the Ahadith. Looking at the geographical position of Najd, it lies to the east of Medina. The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) pointed towards the east and said: "There, that is the direction from where Fitna will emerge."
SECOND HADITH
Abdullah bin Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) narrates in Muslim Shared: "The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) once emerged from the room of his wife, Hazrat Ayesha (Radiallahu Anha) and pointing towards Najd exclaimed: ‘This is the centre of Kufr from where the horn of Shaitaan will rise.’" (Muslim Shareef, Vol. ii, pp/394)
THIRD HADITH
Allama Dahlan narrates an authentic Hadith in his book "Addarus Sunniah", which he has quoted from Sihaah. The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) is reported to have said: "There will raise a group of people in the East who will recite the Holy Quran, but alas, the Quran will not go beyond their throat. This group will keep rising till the Day of Judgement and they will eventually rise with Dajjal." "Their main symbol will be to sit in groups." (Halqa) (From Bukhari Sharief, Vol. iii)
It will be noted from the above Hadith that the center of Kufr and Shaitaan is situated on the East of Medina. You will also note that Najd also lies on the East of Medina from where a group of so-called Muslims will recite the Holy Quran but it will not penetrate beyond their throat. They will invite the masses towards the Holy Quran and religion. Now, if you examine the situation carefully, one would observe without any fear of contradiction, that reference is made to no other Group besides the notorious Tableeghi Jamaat whose one end is in Delhi and the other is implanted in Najd (Riyadh).
CONFIRMATION BY MOLWI MASOOD AALAM NADWI
The above Nadwi writes in his well known book "Muhammad Ibnê Abdul Wahab" - on the side commentary: "The Southern part of Najd has the famous town of Riyadh, the Capital of his (Wahabi) headquarters in Dariya. Both these villages are in the valley called Waadi Hanifa (situated in Najd)." (Pp/16)
Allama Dahlaan has quoted these Ahadith from the Sihaah: The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "During the initial part of my Dawah in Mecca, I particularly invited the outside tribes who used to arrive during the Hajj season. From all these tribes the most hostile and ugly reaction was from the Banu Hanifa tribe." (The same tribe in which Ibné Abdul Wahab was born. He founded Wahhabism which is being followed by the Tableeghi Jamaat) (Addarus Sunniah, pp/52)
He quotes a further Hadith: Hazrat Abu Bakr Siddiq (Radiallahu Anhu) reports that the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "From the tribes that live in Waadi Hanifa, fine shall emerge till the final era. That valley shall be notorious for its fine because of the rise of false leaders." (pp/52)
Hazrat Imraan, the son of Hazrat Haseen (Radiallahu Anhu) reports that the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) disliked three tribes life long. (1) Banu Saqeef (2) Banu Hanifa (3) Banu Umayya (Tirmizi Shareef)
FOURTH HADITH
It is reported in Mishkat from Hazrat Abu Said Khudri (Radiallhu Anhu) who narrates that: "Once we were in the presence and company of the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam). He was distributing booties (Spoils of War) when a person named Zul-Khawaisara who was from the tribe of Bani Tamim addressed the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam): "Oh Muhammad Be Just!"
The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) replied: "A Great pity that you have doubts, if I am unjust then who will be just you are a loser and a failure."
Zul-Khawaisara’s attitude infuriated Hazrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) and he pleaded with the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) to permit him to slay Zul-Khawaisara. The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) remarked: "Leave him as his slaying will serve no good purpose as he is not the only individual but there are a host of others like him and if you compare their prayers and fasting to that of yours, you yourself will feel ashamed. These are the people who will recite the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats, with all these apparent virtues they will leave the fold of Deen just like the arrow leaves the bow." (Miskhat Shareef pp /535).
FIFTH HADITH
The previous Hadith has also been narrated as follows: "A person with eyes protruding, with a long beard and head clean-shaven came to the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and declared: ‘O Muhammad (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) fear Allah.’"
The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) replied: "If I disobey Allah then, who else will obey Him? I am obedient to Allah at all times and never disobedient. Allah has sent me as Amin (Honest) for the entire world, but you don’t accept me as an honest man?"
A Sahabi (Companion) became infuriated and sought permission to remove him from the presence of the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam). The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) prevented the Sahabi from doing so. After the person had left, the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "From his progeny will rise a Group who would recite the Holy Quran but it will not go below their throats. They will leave the Deen just as an arrow leaves the bow-string. They will kill the Muslims but spare the idolators. If I ever confronted these people I would slaughter them just as the people of Aad had been destroyed." (Mishkat Shareef pp/535)
SIXTH HADITH
Shareekh Ibn Shihab (Radiallahu Anhu) also narrates a similar incident of a person who displayed disrespect towards the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam). He states: "The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: ‘Nearing Qiyamat there will be a Group of people who will recite the Holy Quran but it will not go below their throat. They will leave the true Religion of Islam as fast as the arrow leaves the bow. They will be recognised by the shavings of their entire head and they will move in Groups and their last Group will emerge with Dajjal. When you meet them you will discover their nature and character the worst of its kind’." (Mishkat, pp/309 - Prints may vary and pages may be djfferent in other publications)
The afore-mentioned Hadith are the words of a Great and Noble Prophet of Allah (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) who is the possessor of Unseen Knowledge, who knows the signs and the secrets of the future.
All Praise is due to Allah, that we do not have to search far for that Group as the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) had mentioned the different signs of this notorious Group that we are able to detect our enemies without difficulty.
Other signs mentioned in recognizing this particular Group are that they will be so punctual and devoted to their Salaat that one will feel ashamed of one’s own Salaat compared to theirs. It is obvious that these qualities are prevalent amongst the Tableeghi Jamaat. For example, you will agree that there are thousands of individuals, nay, many millions of individuals that are performing Salaat for a period of over 40 to 50 years, and yet, they do not possess a sign on their forehead (sign of Sajda) whereas very surprisingly, the devotees of the Tableeghi Jamaat get the mark of Sajda on their forehead within a few weeks! The reason for this is very clear, they deliberately press and rub their foreheads on the mussallah to obtain the much-coveted mark. This is to display to the Muslims, their so-called piousness. Another sign of this Group is that they will consider all other persons as being inferior to them and even those of high standing in society are looked down upon by them. The most glaring sign of recognizing these people is their constant attempts in degrading the Prophets, Ambiya and Aulia (Prophets and Saints).
These signs are prevalent amongst the Tableeghi Jamaat. They look down upon all the Sunni Muslims who are, without any doubt, true and devout Muslims. They openly challenge the Ulema and Imams. They engage in discussions and arguments on matters, which they themselves do not understand, and yet they have the audacity to degrade the Status and the Glory of the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam).
In the fifth Hadith it is mentioned that another sign of this notorious Group is that they will shed the blood of fellow Muslims and will have no dispute whatsoever, with the idolators. This glaring sign is also present in the present Tableeghi Jamaat. You have often witnessed or heard that in certain Musjid the Tableeghi Jamaat had a dispute or in a certain Musjid the Tableeghi Jamaat had come with sticks, chains, knives, etc. You have also noticed that when and wherever they fight it is always with the Muslims and not the Kafirs and Mushriks (Polytheists). You may have also noticed that when or wherever they confront the Kafirs or Mushriks, which is seldom or never, they tug their ‘tails’ between their legs and run. This is true in India, during Hindu Muslim Riots.
In the sixth Hadith it was mentioned that a peculiar sign of this Group will be the shaving of their head completely. This act is now reckoned to be its sign and emblem as such they advise their followers and Mureeds (Disciples) to also shave their heads and therefore you will notice that most of them are bald.
A STRANGE FACT
The Arabic word ‘Thaleeq’ (Shaving) as used in the Ahadith must be taken into consideration. The common translation of the word ‘Thaleeq’ is clean shaving of the entire head. The Deoband scholars in "Misbahul Lughat" - page 148, give it’s meaning as: To turn around and sit in a circle. This translation fits as a glove with the Movement of the Tableeghi Jamaat, the one translation is regarding the moving around and the other indicating their sitting in circles in Masjids and doing Kitaab-reading as a splinter group, detached from the other Musallies. They cut across the Imam and display a defying attitude. They never read the Quran. They love the Kitaab written by Molwi Zakariya. They will never participate in Khatamul Quran organised in Mosques on certain nights or auspicious nights. If the Imam is delivering Tafseerul Quran, or Darsé Hadith or Fiqah lessons or even Zikrullah, these people never take part, as if they are the only super-Muslims and everybody else are 3rd grade! These Tableeghis are programmed internationally to behave in this manner. It is not peculiar to any country. This is their global strategy to de-stabilise the Muslims. The anti-Muslim West has realised that they cannot break the Muslims from outside. They will have to use a group of hypocrites who will use Western financial resources, and creep in Muslim Society, systematically dismantling them and fragmenting them. Remember, all this is done in the Name of establishing the Sunnah and "The Mubarak Tareeqa of our Beloved Rasoolullah (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam)," as claimed by them!
Hazrat Abu Saeed Khudri (Radiallahu Anhu) and Hazrat Anas (Radiallahu Anhu) report that the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) stated: "My Ummat is destined to differ and be divided. So a group will arise whose talks will sound very good but their character will be misleading. They will read the Quran but it will not descend below their throats (just oral reading). They will leave Deen just as an arrow pierces and goes right through the prey. They will not return to Islam. They are the worst of creation because of their nature and constitution. They will call the people towards the Quran and Deen whilst in reality they will have nothing to do with Islam. Whoever will confront them, he will be the most beloved servant of Allah. The Sahaba enquired: "Ya Rasoolullah, (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) what is their sign?" He replied: "Sitting in a Halqa (circle)." (Mishkat Shareef pp/3O8)
SEVENTH HADITH
Hazrat Ali (Radiallahu Anhu) once narrated: "I swear by Allah that to fall from the sky to the earth is very simple for me, but to utter one false word in reference to the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) is a very difficult and impossible task for me."
Hazrat Ali (Radiallahu Anhu) then narrated as follows: "I heard the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) as saying that as the Day of Qiyamah approaches, there will appear a Group of Youths with a low mental capacity and understanding. Apparently they will talk of good but their Imaan will not go beyond their throat and they will leave the true Deen like an arrow leaves the prey. Wherever you find them, you should make Jihaad with them. (Bukhari Shareef pp/1024)
EIGHTH HADITH
The following Hadith is reported by Hazrat Abu Naim (Radiallahu Anhu) in his book entitled "Huliya".
Hazrat Abu Umana Bahili (Radiallahu Anhu) narrates that the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: "Before the Day of Qiyamah, they (Tableeghi Jamaat) will spread and attack bitterly like the small and the large insects and whosoever witnesses this period must seek refuge in Allah." (Huliya)
Hazrat Hassan Basri (Radiallahu Anhu) narrated the following hadith: "The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said that there will come a time when people will speak of worldly affairs in the Masjid and when this period arrives, keep away from such people as Allah has no relation with them." (Mishkaat)
In the previous Hadith above it is stated about that Group consisting of youths of low mental capacity and understanding. If one desires to confirm this sign then one has to go to their Ijtima (as an observer) and one would find people of both these categories. You will also notice that a great number of ignorant people joining the Tableeghi Jamaat with the idea in mind that they are doing a great service to Islam. You will also find a group of little children from schools, colleges, madressas and the general public who, without thinking or understanding, join the Tableeghi Jamaat in the belief that they are rendering a religious service. These innocent, simple-minded individuals unwittingly become a target of their deception and fraud. Thus, many youth and unwary persons have unconsciously joined the Tableeghi Jamaat due to their mis-leading tactics.
In the eighth Hadith it is stated that before Doomsday the ‘Mullahs’ will multiply like the insects and the Musjids will be turned into a village pavilion or rural club. It is apparent from observation and experience that the Tableeghi Jamaat is a living picture of this Prophecy. There are a great number of individuals who by merely reading a few pages of the "Tableeghi Nisab" (Teachings of Islam) automatically become Moulvies and Alims. These so-called ‘Mullahs’ show utter disrespect and disregard for the Great Ulema who have spent the best and greater part of their lives in attaining Islamic Knowledge at reputed Colleges and Universities, here and abroad.
The state of Musjids has now become the center of various activities besides a place of Worship. These ‘gypsies’ (Tableeghi Jamaat members) have transformed the Musjid into a hostel, with canteen and sleeping hall and engage in other worldly affairs. This disgraceful and tormenting attitude towards the Musjid is both shocking and disheartening.
NINTH HADITH
Sayed Allama Dahlan (Rahmatullahi Alaihi) quotes in his book ‘Addarus Sunnia’ an authentic Hadith of the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) which states: "There will be a Group of people emerging from the East who will recite the Holy Quran but it will not go down their throat. They will leave the folds of Islam like an arrow leaves the bow never to return. A feature to recognise this Group is that their heads would be shaven clean." (Addarus Sunnia, pp/49)
From the above Hadith it will be noted that since they deviate from the truth it is impossible for them to return to the Right Path. This Hadith could be put to a simple test by yourself, for the sake of confirmation of your doubts, if any, then confront a staunch follower of the Tableeghi Jamaat and try and influence him a thousand times and try to rid him of his false belief and not to associate with those who degrade the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and to believe in the true status of the Aulia Allahs (Saints). Surprisingly, you will note that your attempts and confrontation will fall on deaf ears and they will neither return to the truth nor will they try to reason and see the truth.
Mohaddith Kabir Imam Abu Ya’la (Rehmatullah Alay) narrates a Hadith from Hazrat Anas bin Malik (Radiallahu Anhu) and the Author of ‘Ibriz’ who states: "Hazrat Anas Bin Malik (Radiallahu Anhu) narrates that in Medina, there lived a very ‘pious’ youngster. One day we made reference about this youngster to the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam). In spite of the Sahaba describing the youngster’s features and character to the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam), the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) was unable to recognise the youngster made mention of. However, a few days later, whilst we were in the company of the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam), the young man passed that way. On seeing the young man, the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) exclaimed: ‘I see the scabs of Shaitaan imprinted on his face.’ The youngster then approached the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) and made salutation. The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) then said to him: ‘Is it not true that right now you are thinking that there is no one better than yourself here.’ The youngster then replied: ‘Yes, these thoughts did pass my mind.’ He then walked away into the Musjid. The Prophet then enquired as to who will kill this person. Hazrat Abu Bakr (Radiallahu Anhu) volunteered to do so and entered the Masjid and saw the person he was to kill engrossed in performing his Salaat and he remembered a Hadith of the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) which prohibited one from killing a person who is performing his Salaat and returned to the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam).
The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) again enquired as to who will kill the youngster, this time Hazrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) volunteered to kill him and entered the Musjid and found the youngster performing his Sajda and with the same thoughts as Hazrat Abu Bakr (Radiallahu Anhu), Hazrat Umar (Radiallahu Anhu) returned to the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam). For the third time the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) again enquired who will kill the youngster, this time Hazrat Ali (Radiallahu Anhu) volunteered to do so, the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: ‘You will surely kill him, if you find him.’
When Hazrat Ali entered the Musjid, he was surprised to see that the youngster was no longer in the Musjid and he too like the others returned to the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam). The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) said: ‘If you had only killed him then all the Fitna in my Ummah till Day of Qiyamah would have been wiped out and no two persons in my Ummah would have fought between themselves.’" (Ibreez Shareef. pp/277, Author Allama Shah AbdulAziz Dab baag (Rehmatullah Alay)).
The Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) informed the Sahaba (Companions) that among my Ummah will rise a Group of people who will recite the Quran, invite to good talks, will be punctual for their Salaat and will be mindful of their fasting, yet they will have no relation with Islam. With this confusion in their minds the Sahaba asked the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) to forecast a sign to recognise this particular Group of people. The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) replied that their heads will be shaven clean or sitting in circles.
Let us all fervently pray to Almighty Allah, with the Grace and Blessings of the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) that Allah grants protection to all true Muslims from this false and strayed Sect.
I invite you to be impartial and ask yourself one question. Where is that group which the Holy Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) described so vividly in so many Ahadith? Is it so difficult to pinpoint them? Surely these prophetic statements are a pen-portrait of Tableeghi Jamaat.
SUMMARY OF AHADITH
(1) Zul Khuwaisra - the man who showed so much disrespect to the Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) was from the tribe of Bani Tamim. The Prophet (Sallalaahu Alayhi Wasallam) foretold that the Wahabi group who will cause much Fitna will be the offsprings of the above Munaafiq.
Alamo Dahlaan, the celebrated Historian of our era writes: "Zul Khuwaira was of the Banu Tamim tribe and so was Ibné Abdul Wahab Najdi." (Addarus Sunniah, pp/51) These Ahadith certainly do not fit the Kharajees because they were not the offsprings of Bani Tamim. Shah Abdul Haq, the great Muhaddis of Delhi writes: "The Kharajees were not the descendants of Zul Khuwaisra." (Ashatul Lamaat, Commentary on Mishkat, pp/535)
Moulana Muhammad Ali Jauhar has made the following observations about the Wahabi Najdi Jamaat: "The hands of the Najd and Najdis are red with the blood of Muslims. This is their only achievement. Now too, there are hostilities with the Yamenis, and a war is looming." (Ma qaalaaté Muhammad Au, Part 1, pp /37)
 
.
As opposed to just visiting Napier Road, which is a red light district in Karachi, bigger than Heera Mandi? Where do you get this stuff from? People from all over Pakistan go to heera mandi, to satisfy their curiosity. This has been happening for more than a thousand years.

However, most people like that are fleeced by both the pimps/prostitutes, and the police who are in collusion with them. Once you pay them money, instead of a leg-over, they call the police, who arrest the said young persons, give them a good hiding, and demand money to be released.

So my advice is, please don't go to heera mandi looking for carnal gratification. You'll be in for a rude surprise.

So that means you have been there?
No but then why everyone buys condoms and decides to go over there? Or as you said napier road in karachi... i never knew that was famous as well...

Hey, I think you are confusing Nepal, and Mumbai's brothel girls with Pakistan. Many of these women have been in this business for generations, and some proudly claim to be "khandani tawaif". There is no such abduction going on in Pakistan. There are plenty of people who are willing to earn a fast buck, especially foreign women. Pakistan is awash with such women from Russia, central asia, and some parts of Afghanistan. They're earning good money, and certainly don't seem to be forced into anything. Hell, they own much of prime real estate in Islamabad, Peshawar and even Lahore.

Entire world knows about Mumbai and how Indias largest industry is prostitution so no need to tell me about that. Generations of tawaifs are coming from there and this tradition of tawaifism is also coming from there.

Also there is evidence supporting that 80% of mobile phones and 65% of cars stolen in Karachi are by Indian agents and their slaves who they have hired across the country to make Pakistani people suffer. There is even evidence of Pakistani girls being kidnapped by them. Awarapan an Indian movie itself showed this Indian tradition of destabilizing other lands very well.

However u r wrong here because girls are trafficked and kidnapped in Pakistan. There was a whole article on how girls are kidnapped and forced into sex slavery... check out the articles I posted.

Usma (also probably not her real name), an Afghan prostitute in Peshawar, said she was 12 when her family sold her to a man. "We were crossing the border [into Pakistan] and had no money to eat. The man gave them $80, so my mother told me to go with Akbar.

"After Akbar found other girls at the border, he put all 17 of us in a truck and took us to Jamrud. I stood on the dais and men offered Arbab dowries for me. Initially I was proud to earn such a high dowry price at Jamrud, but then the man refused to marry me and instead sent me out with his friends." These girls also don’t see any of the dowry money given to Mr. Arbab. According to dozens of buyers interviewed, the girls are disposable — and most don’t live to the age of 30. When asked in what way the girls are disposable, the men shrug and smile.

When asked about how she felt, Usma started to cry. "While I was with my first man, Khoram, the whole time I was thinking how much I wished that I was a married woman with my own husband, my own children, and my own house." When asked about the prostitution, her answers were unsurprising: "I did not like it at all. After the first time, I came home and cried and tore my hair — I hated myself and wished that I would die."

How shaaddddddd... I wish i was there to comfort them... :disagree:
How so very mean... there are enough girls happy with the practice and enjoying without this sort of thing.

As for waderas,sardars? what do they have to do with heera mandi and prostitution, i have no idea. you seem to be confusing a lot of issues here.

The gunda's of lahore have many businesses, but prostituion is not one of them. Yes, there is a fashion among some of them to summon such women to dance at wedding parties and other functions, but they do not engage in pimpery themselves. I doubt you know anything about gundas of lahore, or you wouldn't say this. Ask about Tipu Pehlwan, Gogi butt, and other badmash/gangsters of lahore, from someone who knows before showing your ignorance here.

Does that mean you know them personally? :what:

No for example gundas like Jamshed bhatti (pimp in heera mandi) has whole sex industry down there making big money buys girls sells them half profits 50% are his which is unfair because girl provides satisfaction not him... he provides girl only lodging, place to stay and food and he has whole harem out there because techincally he can do any girl any day... thats just mean is'nt it?

As far as tipu truckanwala and gogi butt are concerned they are street criminals that are involved in gang wars and street fighting which is why you hear of them. They are nearly same as arshad papoo and rehman dakait of karachi destroying the peace in Karachi.

Hey, now that would be telling. I can't teach everything in a day, now can I?:azn:[/QUOTE]

No but you said there was respective way for saying , i banged, i screwed etc... how do you say that?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
. .
Well, i remember some people were literally beaten senseless if it was suspected you were "dating" in punjab university campuses. Who did it, one answer "jamatiee--jamiat kay larkay"

Once again, big difference between "Jamiat" and "Jamaat". The former belong to Jamat-e-Islami, a political party with activists. "Jamaat" is a non-political, religious grouping which is loosely bound by those interested in self-purification.
 
. .
Once again, big difference between "Jamiat" and "Jamaat". The former belong to Jamat-e-Islami, a political party with activists. "Jamaat" is a non-political, religious grouping which is loosely bound by those interested in self-purification.

i used the term jamat in the sense of jamiat. many groups use teh word jamat. If you are affiliated with jamaate islami, you are also called jamaatiya. Even ahmadis call themselves "we are from the jamaat". It is a term used by many.

People from TAblighi jamaat, do go on jamaats, but they don't usually call themsleves jamatis. Mostly people know them as tablighi. Their official name is Anjuman Islahi Muslimeen.

I've been on many a jamat myself, and spent many weeks, and days with the tablighi jamat before I got disillusioned with it.
 
.
I think you've gone too far with this. if you felt that I have done something terribly wrong, it still was not necessary for you to reveal those faults (if I had done any) on a public forum. in Sahih Muslim, a hadith relates the following:

"Abu Huraira reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: The servant (who conceals) the faults of others in this world, Allah
would conceal his faults on the Day of Resurrection.

Your words were said in an open forum, so I couldnt have concealed it. Any censuring has to be done openly too. The hadith concerns people who do "gheebah", that is observing somebody's personal sins and telling other people about it. I did no such thing.

There was absolutely no need for you to do that. I chose to leave the conversation because of the sudden increase in intensity, which was perhaps the best thing to do since arguing is never encouraged. I'm sure you've heard of this hadith somewhere?

In Abu Dawud a hadith relates the following:

"Abu Umamah Al-Bahili (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said,

I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannah for one who has good manners.''

Thanks for posting the hadeeth above, It is true, no one should argue for the sake of arguing.

was this an act of giving 'naseeha' or advice to me? Naseeha is something you give to people in private, you do not scold people in open public.

If what you said was in open, the Naseeha should be done in open. In case, others take a wrong impression from whatever has been said.

I chose to use 'slang' words, specifically, on purpose. have you considered which audience I was targeting? Certainly it wasn't you, it was the younger generation, my age group to be more specific. I'm not going to spend time writing long paragraphs explaining in detail why dating is haraam. Instead, I just passed a joke with someone and, at the same time, warned them.

as for sin being something that is only between the Lord and His servant, that is true, only Allah can forgive sins. However, there is nothing stopping you from feeling shame or having a sense of 'ghairah' when an act as terrible as 'zina' is committed.

This sense of Ghayrah can also be exemplified in my feeling agrieved about Pakistani girls being labelled as fornicators. Women are always easy to pick on, and to criticise.
There is the famous hadith, of Sa’d ibn ‘Ubaadah, when he said,
"If I were to see a man with my wife, I would strike him with
the sharp edge of a sword!" The Prophet sallallahu ‘alaihi wa
sallam said, "Are you amazed at the jealousy (ghairah) of Sa'd?
We are more jealous than him, and Allah is more jealous than me.
"
(Reported by al-Bukhari)

This sense of ghairah should have stopped you from making such comments about Pakistani muslim girls. I admit to being angered about this. I can't stand it.

Now these women may not be my wives or anyone close, but I certainly do have the right for 'guarding' their chastisy since they are my sisters in Islam.

Guarding their chastity? TAlking about people getting banged and laid is not guarding their chastity.

You were right, I should have done something to stop it and unfortunately, I could not for the reasons I explained earlier. That is why I can guarantee you, the next time I show up in Pakistan, it will be WWIII if I see dating in the park in front of my house.

I told you, let go of your obsession on what other people do. Concentrate on your own actions. And learn how to express your views without upsetting other people.

There's a saying in Urdu/PUnjabi.

Aisi boli bol, koi na kavay chup

Aisi baini beh, koi na bolay uth.

As I had mentioned earlier, there have already been proven cases of zina and the witnesses are thousands of viewers on youtube. Fornication happens in internet cafes and is recorded, although it can happen elsewhere. I do not need four witnesses, since I mentioned earlier, I did not name anyone. That basically means I have not accused anyone at all, thus, there was no reason for anyone here to get serious.

No, instead you decided to accuse the whole of Pakistani society and its women. This is my society and these are my women, friends, sisters, cousins, daugthers, etc. Instead of looking for cheap thrills on youtube, I suggest you look for other ways to pass your time.

I'm not concerned with parading around as the 'champion of Islam', I adopted this username for no serious reason at all. I don't see the problem in that, unless you have a hadith to back yourself up.

I did not ask you to change your name. I just expected something a bit better, and more mature from someone who likes to read and post ahadeeth, yet does not know the first thing about islamic etiquette.
 
.

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom