T-84 oplot M fails testing what now for the army, in terms of tanks?

[Spectre]

So the worlds 6th largest army choose a tank that Ukraine can't produce ? (With 60% of it being built in PAK)


Russians got nothing on us .. Ukraine and Russia still are buying and selling stuff to eachother despite war...


A member posted pics of the MBT-3000 in Pak on the previous pages .. Again they didn't choose it for a good reason.

Can you provide any confirmation link on Russia selling Ukraine Military hardware after the Crimea annexation?

As far as I am aware everything is frozen, Ukraine refused Engines for Russian Frigates that's why they might be coming to India

Russian frigates left without engines prepared for transfer to India | Russia & India Report

 

[Zarvan]

So the worlds 6th largest army choose a tank that Ukraine can't produce ? (With 60% of it being built in PAK)


Russians got nothing on us .. Ukraine and Russia still are buying and selling stuff to eachother despite war...


A member posted pics of the MBT-3000 in Pak on the previous pages .. Again they didn't choose it for a good reason.

What is the status of new AL KHALID project ?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

we can if we want to
but designing and developments costs a lot and our defence industry is under funded
what we have been doing is we get a platform and we modify it with home grown and foreign systems and we built them in HIT

We have around 2000 Type-59s,62s,85s to replace.


AK project although a success (with it being exported to several countries ..I.E: KSA, export versions to Peru,Myanmar,Bangladesh etc) can't be Chunned in larger numbers -- 50 AKs come off the production line each year.

And we need to replace old obsolete sh1t fast. Ukranians Oplot not only offers us commonality with our existing fleet of UDs,but they are offering us 60% production.... probably cheaper rates,and a nice tank. I doubt anybody woul refuse that.

@Audio. Russian MS was also a contender.

What is the status of new AL KHALID project ?

No idea .. Probably have to wait till 2016... For the AK with 6 major upgrades...


.....



@balixd what were the contenders :

Oplot
MBT-3000
MS

the fourth?

 

[Zarvan]

We have around 2000 Type-59s,62s,85s to replace.


AK project although a success (with it being exported to several countries ..I.E: KSA, export versions to Peru,Myanmar,Bangladesh etc) can't be Chunned in larger numbers -- 50 AKs come off the production line each year.

And we need to replace old obsolete sh1t fast. Ukranians Oplot not only offers us commonality with our existing fleet of UDs,but they are offering us 60% production.... probably cheaper rates,and a nice tank. I doubt anybody woul refuse that.

@Audio. Russian MS was also a contender.



No idea .. Probably have to wait till 2016.

@balixd what were the contenders :

Oplot
MBT-3000
MS

the fourth?

According to @kaonalpha T-90 MS and another T will come in December for testing. Can't say Why

 

[Audio]

So the worlds 6th largest army choose a tank that Ukraine can't produce ? (With 60% of it being built in PAK)

I cannot answer this question, but i think facts do seem to corroborate what i'm saying no? That they can't make a proper production line.

Ukraine and Russia still are buying and selling stuff to eachother despite war...

Okay, whatever you say. I don't think they buy and sell much to each other nowadays. If anything, Ukrainians didn't even pay for gas and were completely cut-off from transit gas just recently.

Russians got nothing on us

My man, when a country joins NATO, it obliges itself to buy notionally NATO standardized equipment, but what that in reality means is, you are paying for membership. Draw parallels with SCO. If you think Russians and Chinese are some altruists, well......

A member posted pics of the MBT-3000 in Pak on the previous pages .. Again they didn't choose it for a good reason.

Wouldn't be the first time a second runner was selected on political considerations.

In any case, i won't be posting here anymore, just wanted to express what i think. I will remain a sceptic. But if i'm wrong, more power to you! Tank does look nice indeed.

 

[niaz]

IMHO we are reading too much into pictures of a single tank. Unless someone with inside link with Pak Army can confirm the choice of T-84 over MBT300. Many questions need to be asked before one puts credence on this news.

1. Why MBT 3000 project has been given up? Is it because it is too expensive, doesn’t meet PA requirement of 21st Century armour or too onerous to produce in Pakistan?

2. How much improvement T-84 Oplot M represents over Al-Khalid-1 and how would it fare against Indian T-90? TOT doesn’t mean much as we are producing all parts of Alkhalid except the power plant which is Ukrainian. Are we going to manufacture KMBD 6TD-2 engines in Pakistan?

3. What about Chinese ZT99 MBT? Is the Ukrainian T-84 Oplot M more cost effective than Alkhalid -1?


Undoubtedly T-84 Oplot M is very capable tank, however on paper T-84 Oplot does not appear to be much of an improvement over Alkhalid -1. It is therefore hard to believe that MBT3000 has been shelved and future Pak Army cavalry units would depend upon Ukrainian tank.

Should the news turn out to be true; only possible explanation could be that Ukraine being desperately short of money; these tanks have been offered to Pakistan at a price significantly less than that of Alkhalid -1. PA decided to go for it because of the slow pace of the Alkhalid production line.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I cannot answer this question, but i think facts do seem to corroborate what i'm saying no? That they can't make a proper production line.

and offering 60% production to Pak.

Okay, whatever you say. I don't think they buy and sell much to each other nowadays. If anything, Ukrainians didn't even pay for gas and were completely cut-off from transit gas just recently.

They actually are getting into JVs .. Recently signed a JV with some country to produce another An series plane.

My man, when a country joins NATO, it obliges itself to buy notionally NATO standardized equipment, but what that in reality means is, you are paying for membership. Draw parallels with SCO. If you think Russians and Chinese are some altruists, well......

So that means we are bound to buy from Russia or China ? Seriously .. Turkey is a NATO member yet it's getting HQs from China.. india was Russians main customer yet they buying stuff from USA n EU...(despite the fact that they rely on Russia for every thing).

Pak buys what suites it.. We got SH-1s... Aswell as more M-109s from USA.. Apart from evaluating Serbian Noras (these days).

We didn't buy MBT-3000 etx and choose Oplot!

We went for both Vipers and MI-35s... And are evaluating Z-10s.


That's how the world works.

Wouldn't be the first time a second runner was selected on political considerations.

In any case, i won't be posting here anymore, just wanted to express what i think. I will remain a sceptic. But if i'm wrong, more power to you! Tank does look nice indeed.

you don't have too.. It's done.

 

[Audio]

and offering 60% production to Pak.



They actually are getting into JVs .. Recently signed a JV with some country to produce another An series plane.



So that means we are bound to buy from Russia or China ? Seriously .. Turkey is a NATO member yet it's getting HQs from China.. india was Russians main customer yet they buying stuff from USA n EU...(despite the fact that they rely on Russia for every thing).

Pak buys what suites it.. We got SH-1s... Aswell as more M-109s from USA.. Apart from evaluating Serbian Noras (these days).

We didn't buy MBT-3000 etx and choose Oplot!

We went for both Vipers and MI-35s... And are evaluating Z-10s.


That's how the world works.

you don't have too.. It's done.

Too much patriotism and too little common sense.
Done here, for real now.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

IMHO we are reading too much into pictures of a single tank. Unless someone with inside link with Pak Army can confirm the choice of T-84 over MBT300. Many questions need to be asked before one puts credence on this news.

1. Why MBT 3000 project has been given up? Is it because it is too expensive, doesn’t meet PA requirement of 21st Century armour or too onerous to produce in Pakistan?

2. How much improvement T-84 Oplot M represents over Al-Khalid-1 and how would it fare against Indian T-90? TOT doesn’t mean much as we are producing all parts of Alkhalid except the power plant which is Ukrainian. Are we going to manufacture KMBD 6TD-2 engines in Pakistan?

3. What about Chinese ZT99 MBT? Is the Ukrainian T-84 Oplot M more cost effective than Alkhalid -1?


Undoubtedly T-84 Oplot M is very capable tank, however on paper T-84 Oplot does not appear to be much of an improvement over Alkhalid -1. It is therefore hard to believe that MBT3000 has been shelved and future Pak Army cavalry units would depend upon Ukrainian tank.

Should the news turn out to be true; only possible explanation could be that Ukraine being desperately short of money; these tanks have been offered to Pakistan at a price significantly less than that of Alkhalid -1. PA decided to go for it because of the slow pace of the Alkhalid production line.

MBT-3000 offers not much on AK-I.

Oplot I guess the Ukrainians need $$ and were willing to sell with 60% TOT... Pak went for it .. Coz A) it's excellent tank..2)TOT...3)Cheaper rates....4)Cousin of UD....5)Need tabks to replace older tanks ASAP.

Too much patriotism and too little common sense. Check up on that HQ-9 deal if this is the measure of your resistance to my assertion.

Done here, for real now.

SCO isn't NATO.. Nor are its member states obliged to buy specifically from Russ or Chin.

Every country looks for its own interests.


Patriotism not really .. It's a rational and logical operation.. Otherwise we would have been flying J-10s instead of F-16s.... Would have been using PLz-45 SPGs instead of M109A5s ... Chinese howitzers instead of getting Turkish Panters (under tot)... Russian KA 52 instead of Vipers etc etc.

 

[Bobby]

is it replacement or addition to Al Khalid?

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Edit

 

[Sulman Badshah]

is it replacement or addition to Al Khalid?

it is addition .. and replacement of older tanks

 

[Zarvan]

it is addition .. and replacement of older tanks

Are you sure I mean guessing or have some inside news ?

 

[Bilal.]

If Oplot M is chosen, can the older T-80UD be rebuilt/upgraded to the same standard? Or Oplot M is basically a new tank and upgrade is not possible.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

If Oplot M is chosen, can the older T-80UD be rebuilt/upgraded to the same standard? Or Oplot M is basically a new tank and upgrade is not possible.

UDs have already been upgraded... And share many similarities with Oplot including cast turret,gun,FCS etx.. Even AKs gun is based on the KBA-3.