T-80 and T-84 Main Battle Tanks Information pool

[Cookie Monster]

Yes I meant the US or other western powers.
Since the UK is already buying ammo for POF they could also buy the T-80UD'S.

Well that doesn't really make Pak flush with cash TBH. Since it will take out a sizeable chunk of Pak's tanks...those would have to be replaced with new ones(either AK1 or VT4s)...
...and so that money would then go to procuring those replacements.

 

[emotionless_teenage]

Since Pakistan is going through hard times and our forex reserves are at a record low I have an idea that would bring us precious forex.
Since all of you are aware of the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict and also must be aware that Ukraine is requesting tanks from its allies but NATO is reluctant to send tanks.
And that's where we come in we could sell our 320 T-80ud's to Ukraine probably for 3 mil each that would get us an estimated one billion dollars.
And Ukrainian's are already familiar with the T-80UD's training and operation.

Lmao you mean pakistan is willing to sacrifice 1/4 of its frontline tank for mere chump change?

 

[iLION12345_1]

Can anyone furnish the inventory of the following:

AK & AK1
VT4
Haider

Haider and VT4 is the same thing. Exact Number delivered is unknown but my guess is between 120-180 with several hundred more on the way.
311 AKs and 110 AK-1s.

Since Pakistan is going through hard times and our forex reserves are at a record low I have an idea that would bring us precious forex.
Since all of you are aware of the ongoing Russia-Ukraine conflict and also must be aware that Ukraine is requesting tanks from its allies but NATO is reluctant to send tanks.
And that's where we come in we could sell our 320 T-80ud's to Ukraine probably for 3 mil each that would get us an estimated one billion dollars.
And Ukrainian's are already familiar with the T-80UD's training and operation.

Have discussed this elsewhere, not feasible at all.

First of all, we’re buying oil and wheat from Russia. We will lose both those if we start selling tanks to Ukraine.

Secondly, those tanks are not with 3 Million USD, even if Ukraine was absolutely desperate for them, nobody in the west would be willing to finance that, it’s cheaper for America to send them an equal number of older Abrams models at that point. Keep in mind all of the weaponry going to Ukraine is being paid for by EU and US, would they be willing to pay for this?

NATO is reluctant to give them tanks yes…or were until a few hours ago. It’s been confirmed that Germany is sending them Leopard 2A6s (yes, leopard 2A6s, arguably one of the best MBTs in active service at the moment), although I feel like they’ll probably end up sending them 2A4s instead. Similarly other countries are awaiting germanys permission to send Leo’s to Ukraine and America is also considering sending Abrams. Sure Ukraine would much rather have our UDs or even Al-Khalids over those because of the logistical nightmare that’s about to develop (and the amount of time it will take to train crews), but we simply can’t sell our tanks. We have nothing to replace them with, especially when there’s several hundred older Type 59s and 69s to replace. Not to mention the Al-Zarrars. We can’t get Replacements fast enough, and selling these things for even 4 million a tank would not cover the cost of replacing the massive gap in the armored corps, so overall it’s just an extremely naive idea, we’d be losing money at that point, nothing would be going to the reserve.

I personally believe that if our economy were stronger and we were hence not reliant on Russia for cheaper oil and wheat (keeping in mind that both these deals have come very recently due to cheaper prices and our failing economy), we would be actively selling arms and armor to Ukraine. So it’s the other way around, our reliance is holding us back from profiting off the war (and as immoral as that sounds, war is the biggest industry in the world, all countries that are rich, earn off war, and Pakistan, in a better world, would be doing the same, for its own people).
The Artillery shells from POF were really not that big of a deal, they were actually bought by UK on Ukraines behalf so Pakistan wouldn’t have to directly be involved in the conflict, and it happened prior to our deals with Russia.

 

[Path-Finder]

 

[Inception-06]

Pakistan could try to implement parts and technics from the VT-4 and Alkalid Tank-programm on the T-80UD where it's possible and cost effective.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Haider and VT4 is the same thing. Exact Number delivered is unknown but my guess is between 120-180 with several hundred more on the way.
311 AKs and 110 AK-1s.


Have discussed this elsewhere, not feasible at all.

First of all, we’re buying oil and wheat from Russia. We will lose both those if we start selling tanks to Ukraine.

Secondly, those tanks are not with 3 Million USD, even if Ukraine was absolutely desperate for them, nobody in the west would be willing to finance that, it’s cheaper for America to send them an equal number of older Abrams models at that point. Keep in mind all of the weaponry going to Ukraine is being paid for by EU and US, would they be willing to pay for this?

NATO is reluctant to give them tanks yes…or were until a few hours ago. It’s been confirmed that Germany is sending them Leopard 2A6s (yes, leopard 2A6s, arguably one of the best MBTs in active service at the moment), although I feel like they’ll probably end up sending them 2A4s instead. Similarly other countries are awaiting germanys permission to send Leo’s to Ukraine and America is also considering sending Abrams. Sure Ukraine would much rather have our UDs or even Al-Khalids over those because of the logistical nightmare that’s about to develop (and the amount of time it will take to train crews), but we simply can’t sell our tanks. We have nothing to replace them with, especially when there’s several hundred older Type 59s and 69s to replace. Not to mention the Al-Zarrars. We can’t get Replacements fast enough, and selling these things for even 4 million a tank would not cover the cost of replacing the massive gap in the armored corps, so overall it’s just an extremely naive idea, we’d be losing money at that point, nothing would be going to the reserve.

I personally believe that if our economy were stronger and we were hence not reliant on Russia for cheaper oil and wheat (keeping in mind that both these deals have come very recently due to cheaper prices and our failing economy), we would be actively selling arms and armor to Ukraine. So it’s the other way around, our reliance is holding us back from profiting off the war (and as immoral as that sounds, war is the biggest industry in the world, all countries that are rich, earn off war, and Pakistan, in a better world, would be doing the same, for its own people).
The Artillery shells from POF were really not that big of a deal, they were actually bought by UK on Ukraines behalf so Pakistan wouldn’t have to directly be involved in the conflict, and it happened prior to our deals with Russia.

I'd argue that there could've been a foreign policy interest in supporting Ukraine. For decades, the Russians have sold arms to India and, as a result, have contributed against Pakistani security interests. So, actively and openly supporting Ukraine does, technically, fall in line with our interests had we been an independent country (both politically and economically). And beyond that, a Ukraine that survives and thrives could be a conduit for critical tech, such as gas turbines, diesel engines, etc, for our indigenous programs in the future.

That said, had Pakistan been strong and independent, then I imagine the Russians would've sent Putin to Islamabad to expressly request us to stay out of the war, or support Russia instead.

 

[iLION12345_1]

I'd argue that there could've been a foreign policy interest in supporting Ukraine. For decades, the Russians have sold arms to India and, as a result, have contributed against Pakistani security interests. So, actively and openly supporting Ukraine does, technically, fall in line with our interests had we been an independent country (both politically and economically). And beyond that, a Ukraine that survives and thrives could be a conduit for critical tech, such as gas turbines, diesel engines, etc, for our indigenous programs in the future.

That said, had Pakistan been strong and independent, then I imagine the Russians would've sent Putin to Islamabad to expressly request us to stay out of the war, or support Russia instead.

Oh I absolutely agree with you. But do you think we have a single person in any leadership position who can think that far ahead? Not even the armed forces leadership, they’re too busy with petty crimes unfortunately.

If you ask me there is a lot more to be gained for Pakistan by supporting the western stance over China and Russia too, if it really wants to develop, because despite chinas close proximity, it is clearly worst to have the west as an enemy than China (one simple look at China-India trade relations shows that much to me).

Haider and VT4 is the same thing. Exact Number delivered is unknown but my guess is between 120-180 with several hundred more on the way.
311 AKs and 110 AK-1s.


Have discussed this elsewhere, not feasible at all.

First of all, we’re buying oil and wheat from Russia. We will lose both those if we start selling tanks to Ukraine.

Secondly, those tanks are not with 3 Million USD, even if Ukraine was absolutely desperate for them, nobody in the west would be willing to finance that, it’s cheaper for America to send them an equal number of older Abrams models at that point. Keep in mind all of the weaponry going to Ukraine is being paid for by EU and US, would they be willing to pay for this?

NATO is reluctant to give them tanks yes…or were until a few hours ago. It’s been confirmed that Germany is sending them Leopard 2A6s (yes, leopard 2A6s, arguably one of the best MBTs in active service at the moment), although I feel like they’ll probably end up sending them 2A4s instead. Similarly other countries are awaiting germanys permission to send Leo’s to Ukraine and America is also considering sending Abrams. Sure Ukraine would much rather have our UDs or even Al-Khalids over those because of the logistical nightmare that’s about to develop (and the amount of time it will take to train crews), but we simply can’t sell our tanks. We have nothing to replace them with, especially when there’s several hundred older Type 59s and 69s to replace. Not to mention the Al-Zarrars. We can’t get Replacements fast enough, and selling these things for even 4 million a tank would not cover the cost of replacing the massive gap in the armored corps, so overall it’s just an extremely naive idea, we’d be losing money at that point, nothing would be going to the reserve.

I personally believe that if our economy were stronger and we were hence not reliant on Russia for cheaper oil and wheat (keeping in mind that both these deals have come very recently due to cheaper prices and our failing economy), we would be actively selling arms and armor to Ukraine. So it’s the other way around, our reliance is holding us back from profiting off the war (and as immoral as that sounds, war is the biggest industry in the world, all countries that are rich, earn off war, and Pakistan, in a better world, would be doing the same, for its own people).
The Artillery shells from POF were really not that big of a deal, they were actually bought by UK on Ukraines behalf so Pakistan wouldn’t have to directly be involved in the conflict, and it happened prior to our deals with Russia.

Small correction, 311 AKs and 120 AK1s.

 

[Dazzler]

Pakistan could try to implement parts and technics from the VT-4 and Alkalid Tank-programm on the T-80UD where it's possible and cost effective.

They've replaced kba3 with HMC guns on most uds.

 

[ziaulislam]

I doubt by end of this year we will have any old gene tanks. Most will go to ukriane as well alot arterilleRY shells ..many people will become billionaires and will retire in Belgium in the process

Haider and VT4 is the same thing. Exact Number delivered is unknown but my guess is between 120-180 with several hundred more on the way.
311 AKs and 110 AK-1s.


Have discussed this elsewhere, not feasible at all.

First of all, we’re buying oil and wheat from Russia. We will lose both those if we start selling tanks to Ukraine.

Secondly, those tanks are not with 3 Million USD, even if Ukraine was absolutely desperate for them, nobody in the west would be willing to finance that, it’s cheaper for America to send them an equal number of older Abrams models at that point. Keep in mind all of the weaponry going to Ukraine is being paid for by EU and US, would they be willing to pay for this?

NATO is reluctant to give them tanks yes…or were until a few hours ago. It’s been confirmed that Germany is sending them Leopard 2A6s (yes, leopard 2A6s, arguably one of the best MBTs in active service at the moment), although I feel like they’ll probably end up sending them 2A4s instead. Similarly other countries are awaiting germanys permission to send Leo’s to Ukraine and America is also considering sending Abrams. Sure Ukraine would much rather have our UDs or even Al-Khalids over those because of the logistical nightmare that’s about to develop (and the amount of time it will take to train crews), but we simply can’t sell our tanks. We have nothing to replace them with, especially when there’s several hundred older Type 59s and 69s to replace. Not to mention the Al-Zarrars. We can’t get Replacements fast enough, and selling these things for even 4 million a tank would not cover the cost of replacing the massive gap in the armored corps, so overall it’s just an extremely naive idea, we’d be losing money at that point, nothing would be going to the reserve.

I personally believe that if our economy were stronger and we were hence not reliant on Russia for cheaper oil and wheat (keeping in mind that both these deals have come very recently due to cheaper prices and our failing economy), we would be actively selling arms and armor to Ukraine. So it’s the other way around, our reliance is holding us back from profiting off the war (and as immoral as that sounds, war is the biggest industry in the world, all countries that are rich, earn off war, and Pakistan, in a better world, would be doing the same, for its own people).
The Artillery shells from POF were really not that big of a deal, they were actually bought by UK on Ukraines behalf so Pakistan wouldn’t have to directly be involved in the conflict, and it happened prior to our deals with Russia.

Not really
America will happily pay a hefty price for the tanks and you can get replacement from china

You may even use your facilities to sell al zardari tank package but again Russia won't forget this and china will be irritated as well
Chinese don't want Russian to loose as this will embolden Taiwan

 

[alimobin memon]

They've replaced kba3 with HMC guns on most uds.

Heavy mortar carriage ?

 

[iLION12345_1]

Heavy mortar carriage ?

Heavy machine Complex. HITs gun barrels that are also used on all other MBTs of PA.

I doubt by end of this year we will have any old gene tanks. Most will go to ukriane as well alot arterilleRY shells ..many people will become billionaires and will retire in Belgium in the process


Not really
America will happily pay a hefty price for the tanks and you can get replacement from china

You may even use your facilities to sell al zardari tank package but again Russia won't forget this and china will be irritated as well
Chinese don't want Russian to loose as this will embolden Taiwan

Why would they pay a lot for these things when several European countries are already giving much more modern MBTs to Ukraine now? America itself is sending Abrams.

And even if they do pay, it won’t be enough to replace them, we have several hundred last Gen tanks to replace with several hundred VT4s on order, so there’s already a massive backlog. This is not how industry works. 44 tanks might be doable, but a bigger number will be too big a hole in the defense to fill quickly. And this is ignoring all the geopolitical implications.

And the “Al-Zardari” package is applied to Type 59s. Do you think Ukraine has those? and even if they chose to apply it to any T55s they have, why and how would they do it (Without money and industry), especially when they’re eventually getting Leo 2A6s and Abrams?


Regardless of my complaints, i actually wish Pakistan would openly support Ukraine, if they play their cards right there is a lot to be won and it can most definitely be used to balance out Pakistan’s relations with the west and China as we once had, because doing this we’re not directly hurting any Chinese interests while also winning American favor, but again, our leaders are too blind to think that far ahead.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

@iLION12345_1 Do you have high fidelity T-80UD photos from past parades (preferably last years)? I tried looking for them but could only find AK or VT-4s. I'd really appreciate if you could share a few. Thanks.

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

Oh I absolutely agree with you. But do you think we have a single person in any leadership position who can think that far ahead? Not even the armed forces leadership, they’re too busy with petty crimes unfortunately.

If you ask me there is a lot more to be gained for Pakistan by supporting the western stance over China and Russia too, if it really wants to develop, because despite chinas close proximity, it is clearly worst to have the west as an enemy than China (one simple look at China-India trade relations shows that much to me).


Small correction, 311 AKs and 120 AK1s.

Indeed, the Chinese and Russians are driven by material gain first and foremost. The West, while also driven by material gain, is also concerned about shaping the world to run a certain way. To get to that point, they'll take a financial hit in the short term for long-term gain: aid programs, market access to overseas sellers and producers, and so on. The key is to work each to achieve your own goals. Sadly, our leaders don't have the intellectual base to carry it out.

 

[iLION12345_1]

@iLION12345_1 Do you have high fidelity T-80UD photos from past parades (preferably last years)? I tried looking for them but could only find AK or VT-4s. I'd really appreciate if you could share a few. Thanks.

 

[Princeps Senatus]

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BTW I just now noticed the roof ERA, didn't know they had that!