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T-129 Atak & Turkish Attack Helicopter Programs

This angle gives off Leonardo AW249 vibes. I'm not saying the two are based on each other, but they're almost like cousins since both Leonardo and TAI used the design philosophy borne out of the A129.
This is partially true. We learned a lot from the S70, too, because we manufacture its parts as well.

Oh, by the way, let me give you two pieces of information.

1- The furniture (LOL) in this picture is not the final version of the T929. First of all, there are design errors in this "very advanced mock-up". The final version will be shorter and more aesthetic than this, don't worry.

2- The development of T929 will be suspended for a while. The powertrain will be transferred to the T925 utility helicopter as it is, and the T925 utility helicopter will be put into service as soon as possible. Because we have enough T129s, we have no shortage of attack helicopters. However, we have a serious shortage of high-capacity utility helicopters.

wish there was some sort of translation from these videos
What I wrote above is the translation you want.
 
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According to Turkish officials it will turn to eots type of cameras inside with that nose, so there will not be a round type camera in this heli anymore
 




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impressive this 20km range missile, but is the weapon system of the helo able to find a target at such a distance? big doubt.
 
impressive this 20km range missile, but is the weapon system of the helo able to find a target at such a distance? big doubt.

Thanks to Meteksan MILDAR Fire Control Radar
Max Range : 27 km
Operating Frequency : Ka band
Coverage : 360
Number of targets : 150

- Target detection tracking function
- Multiple target detection
- Real time ARPO image
- Navigation support
- Creating a land profile of 2,5 km in the mountains

and Thanks to UMTAS-GM Missile with hybrid seeker head ( IR+ high resolution CCD camera ) to engage on targets beyond line of sight ( BLOS ) ..... man-in-the-loop capability via Data link


1688379770027.jpeg

1688379815595.jpeg



French-German TIGER Attack Helicopter does not have fire control radar
 
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French-German TIGER Attack Helicopter does not have fire control radar
Indeed.
It's a choice : radar waves are not discreet.
Tiger use a totally passive IR and optic sensors.
 
Knobheads deny Türkiye systems yet can french police survive riots
 
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impressive this 20km range missile, but is the weapon system of the helo able to find a target at such a distance? big doubt.


It works with 2 way data-link and man in the loop so the pilot in the chopper can chose the target. Or the missile can be guided from a spotter behind the enemy line. Tb2 can spot the target. The war in Ukrain have learned that best way to engage with a attack chopper is far from the fire.


 
impressive this 20km range missile, but is the weapon system of the helo able to find a target at such a distance? big doubt.
Our new EOTS systems, which can easily detect from that distance, will enter the production line very soon. If we take into account the Meteksan Mildar and various UAVs, I think it would not be a problem for us to identify the target from long distances.

Our main problem in Atak-2 is the engines. It is uncertain whether we will produce Ukrainian engines in Turkiye. (Ukraine's aero engine production capacity was severely damaged by the war.) Since turbofan engines are a priority, the domestic TEI TS-3000 engine will not arrive before 10 years. Western engine manufacturers will also very likely not cooperate for political reasons.

In fact, Atak-2 is not even a priority. The T925 utility helicopter is the platform we urgently need. Of course, the T925 has also engine trouble as it uses the same powertrain as Atak-2.
 
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Indeed.
It's a choice : radar waves are not discreet.
Tiger use a totally passive IR and optic sensors.

T-929 Attack Helicopter has also E/O System with target detection range of 20 km

Aselsan MEROPS ( Multi-spectral extended range Optical Sight )
1688416704520.jpeg

1688422048205.jpeg



T-929 Attack Helicopter
Nowhere to hide , Nowhere to run

35 km Aselsan ASELFLIR-600 E/O System
27 km Meteksan MILDAR Fire Control Radar

25-40 km UMTAS-GM Missile with hybrid seeker head ( IR + high resolution CCD camera ) to engage on targets beyond line of sight ( BLOS ) ..... man-in-the-loop capability via Data link



35 km Aselsan ASELFLIR-600 E/O System for T-929 Attack Helicopter

HD IR Camera ( 1280x1024 .. MWIR )
HD Day TV Cemera ( 4096x2880 )
HD SWIR Camera ( 1280x1024 )

1688423127316.jpeg
 
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It is uncertain whether we will produce Ukrainian engines in Turkiye.

There was an interview with the Ukrainian ambassador to Turkey and he seemed to deny any moving of production lines out of Ukraine, but did say Ukraine was open to codevelopment with the improved engine possibly being manufactured in Turkey.

Since turbofan engines are a priority, the domestic TEI TS-3000 engine will not arrive before 10 years. Western engine manufacturers will also very likely not cooperate for political reasons.

I believe the only current countries that have an engine in the class fitted onto the ATAK 2 are, Ukraine( TV3-117), its russian counterpart the VK-2500(basically the same engine, just produced in Russia). General Electric T700(which Turkey is familiar with license producing it for the T-70, same engine as the Boeing Apache) and the Rolls-Royce/Turbomeca RTM322 which was the joint british/french engine, I believe its expired now as Rollsroyce sold their stake in the engine to Safron, which then updated the engine into the Safran Aneto, and I don't believe Rollsroyce has the production facilities to produce that engine anymore. Out of these options, in the event that Ukrainian engine can't be procured, I think the most reasonable option would be the T700 that is already being license produced in Turkey. You could go for the Russian engine as its essentially the same engine as the Ukrainian version, but it might create political problems. The French option doesn't seem viable for both from a political perspective and from a logistical perspective.

As for development of a new engine, I think the time can be much less than 10 years, especially since the TEI TS1400 launched in 2017 and apparently mass production is next year with the Gokbey. And the TF6000/TF10000. turbofan core could be reused for a turboshaft, Not to mention if you do codevelop with Ukraine for a followup engine, you wouldn't be starting from scratch.
 
There was an interview with the Ukrainian ambassador to Turkey and he seemed to deny any moving of production lines out of Ukraine, but did say Ukraine was open to codevelopment with the improved engine possibly being manufactured in Turkey.
There is no production line left to move in Ukraine, the Russians bombed the factory. :) Even if everything goes well, we are producing with the GE tradition. Ukraine produces with the Soviet tradition. This in itself is a big problem. If there were no policy restrictions, the most reasonable solution would be the GE T700/CT7 engines to be produced in Turkey under GE license.
As for development of a new engine, I think the time can be much less than 10 years, especially since the TEI TS1400 launched in 2017 and apparently mass production is next year with the Gokbey. And the TF6000/TF10000. turbofan core could be reused for a turboshaft,
Developing the TS-3000 engine is much faster than the TS-1400 engine, you are right about that. However, TEI has reached its limits as a human resource. TEI cannot start a new engine project until the turbofan projects (TF 10000 and TF 35000) on the "immediately required" list are finished. These projects last 10 years at the most optimistic estimate.

P.S. TEI cannot even retain its current experts. Westerners and Arabs alike offer these experts ridiculously high salaries. The fear that the AKP government will impose an Islamic lifestyle also drives these experts out of the country.
 
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There is no production line left to move in Ukraine, the Russians bombed the factory.

To my knowledge they delivered even after an airstrike in 2022, according to the ambassador they were delayed wit other priorities, but were still able to deliver prototypes 4 months later. The Ukrainians have the factory production deep underground(from soviet times, they expected a mass war with the west and expected production facilities to be targeted).

This interview is from a month ago, and the ambassador was saying everything was fine and Ukraine is meeting its delivery obligations. So unless there was an airstrike in Zaporizhzhia recently that completely crippled Ukraine that I didn't hear about, I don't think production has stopped. Besides Russia hasn't really bombed Zaporizhzhia all that much, idk whether its b/c of air defense there being strong or whatever. Its still risky, but the world is full of risks, you just have to take calculated ones. :-)


Even if everything goes well, we are producing with the GE tradition. Ukraine produces with the Soviet tradition.

Whats that even mean? lol any examples? Clearly TAI(the ones who license produce GE engines) guys don't agree if they are holding talks with Ukraine over collaboration. They seem to be impressed with Ukraine enough to consider codevelopment.

However, TEI has reached its limits as a human resource. TEI cannot start a new engine project until the turbofan projects (TF 10000 and TF 35000) on the "immediately required" list are finished.

Fair point, maybe this is true, but I guess only TEI guys know for sure, I have heard rumors of a domestic engine, and to be honest its just as important as the TF6000/TF1000 if not more, as to my knowledge far more transport helicopters(both civilian and military market) are to be produced than anka 3s and kizilelmas, so I'll give you this point, maybe its true. Although the TEI1400 is set for mass production in 2024 so that means its development is finished, we don't know how the turboshaft team will be reassigned. Will they work on the turbofan projects, or maybe they will be given this turboshaft project.

TEI cannot even retain its current experts. Westerners and Arabs alike offer these experts ridiculously high salaries.

Maybe, but the guys working on this sort of stuff aren't making pennies to begin with, so you can competitively compensate them, heck there were BAE guys working on the TFX, so if anything people were being poached in the other direction. I don't really see many people leaving as the top top projects are restricted so Pratt and Whitney/GE/Rollsroyce/Safron don't tend to hire foreign nationals to work on sensitive projects, so they will be stuck at lower roles in those companies, whereas they will have far more opportunity at upward mobility at TEI which is developing new projects and research. Not to mention Turkey is really benefitting from the Russian/ukrainian brain drain that is happening with the war, many Ukrainian engineers are in Turkey right now, maybe thats why the Ambassador was talking about codevelopment, he mentioned helicopter engine codevelopemnt via a joint company and I can't think of any other aircraft other than the ATAK2 and the T925 that Turkey needs an engine for.

The Arabs states maybe could lure some people with money, but those places don't have any significant engine programs so I guess we will see. If anything I wouldn't be surprised if Turkey adopts the South Korean way where they are going to the UAE, asking them to invest and codevelop(recently a transport airplane was announced), with the UAE covering the bill, and Korea providing the technical staff and at the end both sharing the product. There was a recent agreement signed with the UAE and Turkey on defense cooperation, so maybe this is more possible.

The fear that the AKP government will impose an Islamic lifestyle also drives these experts out of the country.

Cmon, even you don't believe this nonsense. lol, how are you going to say they will go to arab states for work and then also say they will leave Turkey b/c of "islamic lifestyle", its just silly fear mongering.

I feel like you are far too pessimistic, you were acting like TAI didn't even know what it was doing with the Hurjet saying the engine hasn't even arrived, how are they going to do testflight, and in the end the aircraft flew just fine, the engine had arrived a while back.
 

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