T-129 Atak & Turkish Attack Helicopter Programs

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

How can it counter newer MANPADS like Verba though? Flares aren't sufficient alone.

What does need for protection?

 

[Philip the Arab]

What does need for protection?

No clue, I'm asking you. Lets say for example PKK gets ahold of Verbas, how could Turkey reasonably counter them? Verba is not Igla, it is made for countering countermeasures.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

No clue, I'm asking you. Lets say for example PKK gets ahold of Verbas, how could Turkey reasonably counter them? Verba is not Igla, it is made for countering countermeasures.

We produce IIR Seekers, and because we think there is no countermeasure, even in the HISAR O IIR was used instead of the Radar seeker.

All I know is that low-altitude flights are needed.

 

[MMM-E]

Helicopter Electronic Warfare System (HEWS) is the Integrated Self Protection System developed by ASELSAN

Radar Warning
Missile Warning
Laser Warning
RF Jamming
Chaff/Flare Dispensing


Meteksan MILDAR fire control Radar for Attack Helicopters

 

[Mithridates]

No clue, I'm asking you. Lets say for example PKK gets ahold of Verbas, how could Turkey reasonably counter them? Verba is not Igla, it is made for countering countermeasures.

flying very low or very high, helicopters have inherent disadvantage against man-pads there is almost no way to counter them.

 

[tornadoss]

Helicopter Electronic Warfare System (HEWS) is the Integrated Self Protection System developed by ASELSAN

Radar Warning
Missile Warning
Laser Warning
RF Jamming
Chaff/Flare Dispensing


Meteksan MILDAR fire control Radar for Attack Helicopters

Northrop Grumman testing a new software which increases range and number of tracked targets. But this weight difference between Mildar and others is huge.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/apaches-longbow-radar-gets-software-boost-462183/

 

[Kamil_baku]

That how Azerbaijani soldiers downed Armenian Mi-24 5 years ago with Manpad when they flied close to our border during their Training with Russians) they got litle cocky feeling Russians nearby and payed for it with 3 soldiers..

Basically in the video, soldiers insist on their commander to shoot it down. He was not sure to do it or not and finally he just shoot it down )

 

[cabatli_53]

No clue, I'm asking you. Lets say for example PKK gets ahold of Verbas, how could Turkey reasonably counter them? Verba is not Igla, it is made for countering countermeasures.

Early IR seekers used a single detector that was sensitive to very hot portions of the aircraft like jet exhaust, making them suitable for tail-chase scenarios but This caused them to be fooled by flares easily. New IIR seekers, especially the one having a dual-frequency seeker is able to distinguish flares from the actual target. Advanced detectors tracking the targets in different wavelengths along with advanced image processors make them incredible deadly and so, old tricks to fool seeker become unlikely because image processors identify the target shape, even capability of locking onto the section which spreads lower level thermal signals than exhaust. Auto dimmer is also used by those processors. That’s why they are difficult to be fooled. The best counter measure technology that an attack helicopter have is the DIRCM technology which is effectively neutralize the seeker heads of IIR missiles by targeting the sensor section with a laser source.

Atak-2 DIRCM

 

[925boy]

flying very low or very high, helicopters have inherent disadvantage against man-pads there is almost no way to counter them.

Even AA/AAA fire can crash helicopters when they fly low.

 

[RadarGudumluMuhimmat]

Early IR seekers used a single detector that was sensitive to very hot portions of the aircraft like jet exhaust, making them suitable for tail-chase scenarios but This caused them to be fooled by flares easily. New IIR seekers, especially the one having a dual-frequency seeker is able to distinguish flares from the actual target. Advanced detectors tracking the targets in different wavelengths along with advanced image processors make them incredible deadly and so, old tricks to fool seeker become unlikely because image processors identify the target shape, even capability of locking onto the section which spreads lower level thermal signals than exhaust. Auto dimmer is also used by those processors. That’s why they are difficult to be fooled. The best counter measure technology that an attack helicopter have is the DIRCM technology which is effectively neutralize the seeker heads of IIR missiles by targeting the sensor section with a laser source.

Atak-2 DIRCM

View attachment 589272

SSM still doesn't authorization DIRCM for Aircrafts?

 

[MMM-E]

Directional Infrared Counter Measures ( DIRCM ) to protect Aircrafts-Helicopters from infrared guided missiles

-- Northrop Grumman AN/AAQ-24(V) ... USA
-- Leonardo MIYSIS .. ITALY
-- Elbit Systems C-MUSIC ... ISRAEL
-- BAE Systems OT-225 ...THE UK

Meteksan LIDAR ... TURKEY

Meteksan Defence currently working on technology development projects in the field of directional laser IR counter measures

ATAK-II will be equipped with DIRCM to protect platform from infrared guided missiles

 

[Kamil_baku]

Even AA/AAA fire can crash helicopters when they fly low.

the video i showed is a proof. Actually, Helicopters fly low to not be seen by air deffence missiles and their radars, but then they are clear target for Manpads, however, lets say Atak can go up to 6500meter high, but Manpads and other Korkut type of air deffence systems can shoot only up to 4km.

 

[merzifonlu]

Directional Infrared Counter Measures ( DIRCM ) to protect Aircrafts-Helicopters from infrared guided missiles

-- Northrop Grumman AN/AAQ-24(V) ... USA
-- Leonardo MIYSIS .. ITALY
-- Elbit Systems C-MUSIC ... ISRAEL
-- BAE Systems OT-225 ...THE UK

Meteksan LIDAR ... TURKEY

Meteksan Defence currently working on technology development projects in the field of directional laser IR counter measures

ATAK-II will be equipped with DIRCM to protect platform from infrared guided missiles

LIDAR is not DIRCM. It is a laser based altimeter. http://www.meteksan.com/news/99/hets-projesi-sozlesmesi-imzalandi

 

[MMM-E]

LIDAR is not DIRCM. It is a laser based altimeter. http://www.meteksan.com/news/99/hets-projesi-sozlesmesi-imzalandi

As Meteksan Defence, we are currently working
on a range of technology development projects in
the field of directional laser-IR countermeasures

http://www.meteksan.com/media/file/en_corporate_catalog.pdf

""NAZAR projesiyle birlikte ülkemiz, DIRCM alanında bir ilki gerçekleştirmiş olacak""
Source : savunmasanayist.com

https://www.savunmasanayist.com/turk-savunma-sanayi/nazar-projesi/

 

[Mithridates]

Even AA/AAA fire can crash helicopters when they fly low.

when you fly low the line of sight decreases, it affects performance of man pads and even anti aircraft guns. also pilots employ specific maneuvers to decrease the chance of AA hits in areas that possibly SPAAGs are present like revolving around an imaginary or simply hiding behind hills...
in Iran's army aviation (and possibly any other army in the world) standard attack helicopter groups consists of two AH-1j armed with hydra rockets for countering enemy mechanized infantry and infantry, (if recon is positive that enemy has armored units two additional TOW cobras join previous choppers), bell jet ranger as recon and bell 214 as rescue and support. bell-206 flies in front of the group and identifies the enemy ground units and gives the coordination of targets to cobras. it is highly maneuverable and agile and that helps it to survive. also it only observes enemy unit does not engage with them.
so the low flying helicopters know where enemy SPAAGs are stationed before approaching them.