Surface To Air Missiles | Terror in the Sky.

[rockstarIN]

moreover i also think that these had been decomissioned now

SAMs have low level maintenance unlike air crafts etc. You can keep as long as u require and yes, even obsolete, you can fire on incoming air crafts and who knows which one hits..!!

 

[Penguin]

If it was not obsolete why would Russia be fielding more advanced systems such as the S400.

Because you don't sit around an wait for a system to get obsolete and only then go do something about it: you plan a successor system well before the preceeding systems gets obsolete. And, just because your got something newer doesn't mean the older stuff has turned useless.

Besides:

The S-400 Triumf (Russian: C-400 «Триумф») is a new generation air defence system developed by Russia's Almaz Central Design Bureau as an upgrade of the S-300 family.

The S-400's NATO reporting name is SA-21 Growler, and the system was previously known as S-300PMU-3.

It overshadows the capabilities of the other systems from the S-300 series, having a larger engagement envelope, a longer range, a higher rate of fire, and an improved jamming immunity

The S-400 is expected to be superseded by the future S-500, with development expected to be completed by 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S-400_(SAM)

They've been putting new missiles and other equipment into S-300 for a long time. This is just more along the same developmental path.

S-500 in the making. So, is S-400 obsolete already then?

 

[Arsalan]

In an interview with the Global Times newspaper, Rao Qamar Suleman, air chief marshal of the Pakistan Air Force has confirmed the rumors that Pakistan Air Force will purchase up to four Chinese Surface-to-Air Missiles to meet its airdefence needs.

Air Chief Marshal Rao Suleman has said that Pakistan air force is evaluating, different Chinese surface-to-air missiles for the purchase of 3 to 4 SAM systems. One of the systems under evaluation is "HQ-18"surface-to-air missile system.

As per Jane's Defence weekly Hong Qi-18 (HQ-18) surface to air missile system is Chinese version based on the S-300 that is also known as SA-12A "Gladiator". HQ-18 system has a range of 100 km and it can be used against short-range ballistic and cruise missiles as well as against aircraft.

Another surface to air missile that may be under consideration is China's indigenously developed HQ-12 / KS-1A SAM. These surface-to-air missiles are available with two engagement radars H-200 phased array radar and SJ-231 phased array radar.

Pakistan Military Review: Pakistan Air Force to Purchase 4 Chinese SAM Systems

 

[Arsalan]

i hope PA stick to the original idea of either going for HQ-9 or FT-2000.
this can be coupled with another medium range SAM but as medium to high altitude SAM system, HQ-9 and FT-2000 seem to be the obvious choices. we have been hearing about pakistan's intrest in these since 2003 but nothing have happened so far. the recent statement by ACM seem to be a renewal of the deal and some progress will be made now, i hope!

HQ-9/FD-2000/FT-2000 Technical Data

Operational Range (Aircraft Target)
7 - 125 km

Operational Altitude (Aircraft Target) 25 m - 27 km
Operational Range (Cruise Missile Target) 7 - 15 km
Operational Altitude (Cruise Missile Target) >25 m
Operational Range (Ballistic Missile Target) 7 - 25 km
Operational Altitude (Ballistic Missile Target) 2 - 15 km
Operational Range (Supersonic Missile Target) 7 - 50 km
Operational Altitude (Supersonic Missile Target) 1 - 18 km



FT-2000 Anti-Radiation SAM Characteristics (CNPMIEC)
Operational Range
12 - 100 km
Operational Altitude
3 - 20 km
Missile Weight
1,300 kg
Missile Length
6.8 m
Missile Diameter
0.446 m
Seeker Band Coverage
2 to 18 GHz

 

[abaseen99]

The HQ-61 (HongQi-61) is short-range, low- to medium-altitude surface-to-air missile (SAM) developed by Shanghai-based 2nd Mechanical-Electronic Bureau (now Shanghai Academy of Spaceflight Technology, SAST). The missile was initially developed as a ship-based air defence missile, with a land-based variant HQ-61A being developed at a later stage. The HQ-61A is the first Chinese SAM to be developed specially for the ground forces to provide tactical air defence. The missile only saw very limited service with the pla. Because the HQ-2 SAM was designed to intercept medium- to high-altitude targets, the PLA required a low-/medium-altitude air defence missile in the early 1960s to provide air protection for its ground forces against low-flying aircraft. The missile development was initially carried out by Beijing-based 2nd Space Academy (now China Academy of Defence Technology) in 1965 under the designation HQ-41. In 1967 the development was taken over by Shanghai-based 2nd Mechanical-Electronic Bureau and the missile renamed HQ-61. Initially the missile was developed with both land-based and shipborne uses in mind, but a decision was then made that the shipborne (naval) variant should be given higher priority.

The HQ-61 development had encountered enormous technical difficulties as well as interference of political impact by the ‘Culture Revolution’ during the 1960s/70s. The shipborne variant HQ-61 was not successful until late 1986. The development of the land-based HQ-61A began in 1976. The associated ground guidance station, electro-optical director, and fire-control vehicle were developed at the same time. The HQ-61A passed its certification tests in 1986 and the missile’s design certificate was issued in 1988 prior to production commencing.

The HQ-61A only saw very limited service. The air defence brigade subordinate to PLA 38th Group Army in the Beijing Military Region fields the HQ-61A, HQ-7, and Tor-M1 (SA-15) SAM, and 35mm AAA guns in amalgamation for field air defence roles.

 

[abaseen99]

The air defence brigade of the PLA 38th Group Army fields a mixture of the HQ-61 and HQ-7 SAM, sharing the same fire-control and surveillance system (Source: Chinese Internet)

 

[abaseen99]

Design

The HQ-61A missile has four front canards mounted on the middle of the missile body and four larger delta-shape control surfaces at rear. The front canards and the rear control surfaces arrangement are not on the same geometric plane, but on a 45 degree angle. The missile uses radio command and semi active radar homing.

A twin missile launcher is mounted on a YanAn SX2150 flatbed 6X6 truck with an azimuth range of 360°. The truck is equipped with four hydraulically operated stabilisers which are lowered in preparation for the missile launch.

Fire-Control & Surveillance

A typical HQ-61A battery (company) consists of 4 trucks each with 2 ready-to-launch missiles, mobile generators, command post vehicle, tracking and illuminating radar vehicle, target indicating radar vehicle, and 24 spare missiles. Earlier versions of the target indicating radar was similar to the one used on former Soviet SA-3 Goa system. The C-band radar system had the Chinese designation Type 571 and had two elliptic parabolic net-type reflectors.

Other features include moving target indication and frequency hopping agility. A typical target engagement would take place as follows: The target is first detected by target indication and radar vehicle. After being confirmed as hostile, the target is tracked and illuminated by the tracking and illuminating radar vehicle. When the target is within range one missile is launched. The Type 571 radar has been designed specifically for low-altitude warning and displays both the slant range and azimuth of aircraft targets detected.

No details of the tracking and illuminating radar has been disclosed, although photographic imagery examined shows a dish-type antenna with a TV camera mounted coaxially to the right for use in an ECM environment, or passive operations during clear weather engagements
The HQ-61A battery firing missiles in exercise (Source: Chinese Internet

 

[Arsalan]

as i mentioned above and also in some previous post on different threads, the missile air defence system of Pakistan have the least potential.

we compete in every other field of military.

our army is strong with good guns, fine artillery and excellent tanks.

the navy is improving and doing good with procurement of F22 frigates, missile boats and high tech Subs

the air-force also seems fine with Mirage ROSE, up-comming JF17z and Highly capable FC20z and the F16 both MLU and Block 52

but

in SAMZ

we dont have anything.
the anza are only low point low altitude defence equipment, they are good rather excellent against the Helis but useless against fighter aircraft.

cortals are also very old

we have been listening to SPADA and FT2000 system since 2003/2005 but still they are no where.

so what do you think where are we going with all this, what should be done and what are the possible options

its been 6 years now and still no confirmed news. however, i have gather some other intresting news pieces that might intrest you guys:

Pakistan develop the 30 km SAM (23-02-2005)
Today in The Jang there is a news regarding Pakistani engrs. being able to develop the 30 km SAM with terminal guidance. Its a single stage solid fuel unit and can carry 100 kg to explosive. The missile can also carry multiple warheads to strike more than one target at a time.

Hummas
Pakistan is working on integrating its stealth finder radar into its missile defence shield also known to some by the name of "hummas".


Pakistan is working on a massive network of surface to air capability based on anti aircraft long range missiles and ballistic missile shield. There are 3 air defence projects with Ukraine alone


ADS-37
It’s a simple computerized 37 mm AAA gun with good accuracy errors. (Cadet at Pakistanidefence forum posted on 30-12-03)
The ADS 37, its AAA + missiles, its radar guided and a deadly enemy for enemy strike aircrafts.

Pakistan`s Dr. Sumar said that Pakistan will use Chinese sold Hq-2 in its preliminary design for a long range anti aircraft missile defence system.
System design is based on Hq-2b.The HQ-2B (also known as HQ-2J) is the latest version of the HQ-2 series. Although the HQ-2B inherited the aerodynamic layout of the HQ-2, its internal design has been completely upgraded. The most distinctive improvement on the HQ-2B is using the digital electronic technology to replace the original analogue electronic design. In addition to intercept conventional aircraft and helicopters, the HQ-2B also possesses limited anti tactical ballistic missile (ATBM) ability. The HQ-2B SAM is mounted on a track chassis, giving it limited mobile capability and adding optical/TV guidance system and improving the missile's electronic countermeasure capability.

Pakistan is also integrating TPQ-36/37 successfully with its hq-2 design then Pakistan has got a really lethal sam TOO

In October 2003, it was reported that China had closed a deal with its neighbor, Pakistan, to supply the latter with an unspecified number of FT-2000 missiles to counter India’s early warning capabilities. The China-Pakistan deal followed India’s own arrangement with Israel and Russia to install three Israeli Phalcon AWACS on Ilyushin Il-76 freighter aircraft, thus giving it an airborne early warning system.(9) According to various news sources, shortly after India announced its acquisition of the Phalcon radars, Air Chief Marshal Kaleem Saadat, the head of Pakistan’s air force, visited China and conveyed Pakistani President Gen. Pervez Musharraf’s wish to purchase an unspecified number of FT-2000s.


According to SIPRI, Pakistan has bought 36 LY-60 missiles. LY-60 can handle high ECM environments and has an optical channel to guide the missiles in case its RADAR equipment gets jammed or destroyed. It is the only medium-low-altitude air defence missile in the world that uses microprocessor intelligent module technology.

this report dates back to 2005 and i suppose that with no news regarding the FT-2000 of SPADA, this one might still be the best we have!

regards!

 

[Arsalan]

Another old article:

Pakistan to get high-tech air defence system
By Hanif Khalid
ISLAMABAD: As per President Musharraf's directives Pakistan will acquire a high-tech air defence system next year, but it must come with transfer of technology, an official told The News.

"China and a European country have offered Pakistan High-to-Medium-Altitude Air Defence System, Low-to-Medium-Altitude Air Defence System, Medium-Altitude Air Defence System and Short-Range Air Defence System," said an official, who wanted not to be named. "The two countries have also offered to set up a project in Pakistan for manufacturing short- medium- and high-range air defence systems," he added.

The official said a former PAF chief had sent a summary to President Musharraf for the purchase of a high-altitude air defence system from a European country without transfer of technology, but the president rejected it.

"The summary has been rejected because Pakistan's adversary has MiG-25, MiG-29, SU-27 and SU-30 fighter planes which are capable of flying at an altitude of more than 25km," he added.

India has these aircraft since 2002 whereas the PAF has no effective weapon system to save major cities of the country and defence installations from any attack by such planes, the official said.

"Had the organisations engaged in developing nuclear-capable missiles indigenously been tasked with the development of a system to overcome this shortcoming, the country would have until now achieved the capability of hitting planes at an altitude of 25-29 kilometres," he remarked. "But no attention has been paid towards this aspect of the country's air defence capability."

The official said that Pakistan has radars that can detect aircraft flying at an altitude of 25-29 kilometres but the country still lacks a weapon system to hit such planes. He said the country needs to install at least one battery of an ultra-modern air defence system on four sides of major cities or military installations for security.

According to the official, one battery of such a defence system would comprise 16 vehicles, including two radar carriers, six missile launching vehicles and six support vehicles and thus each battery would cost $40-50 million.

A short-range air defence system can shoot down an enemy plane up to five kilometres and medium-range system is capable of hitting and attacking aircraft up to 25 kilometres while a high-range air defence system can hit an enemy plane at a distance of 90 kilometres, elaborated the official.

http://www.thenews.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=5036

Pakistan have a good set of ground based air defense radars. what we sseriously need is to get a good system to bring down the detaected enemy aircrafts.

with the world moving to fifth generation aircrafts and also with china reported to have developed ground based anti-stealth radars, the need to hour is to go for a long range misile defence system integrated with the C4I and the ground radar stations. this will form a good defense sheild.

These are Pakistan's recent radars that are very potent:
6 AN/TPS-77 land-based 3D radars.
6? YLC-2 land-based 3D radars.
10 YLC-6 land-based 2D radars.
6 L-88 land-based radars.
Intention to procure VERA or Passive Radar System.
If we are talking about long-range SAMs, then I think we'll likely go for the Chinese FT-2000/HQ-9. I heard when it was revealed, the system was sub-par; today that might not be the case. Besides the HQ-9-series, other options include the S-300/400 and PAC-3, which I seriously doubt Pakistan would get. A good solution would be to procure the FT-2000 or HQ-9 as it is, and then give it the Al Khalid treatment. In other words, integrate systems from non-Chinese sources onto a Chinese platform and turn it into something entirely different. This system could also become the basis of an ABM and would be entirely under Pakistani jurisdiction.

Medium-range SAMs are a bit shady right now IMO. I thought we would procure the MBDA Spada 2000, but according to that article; a former Air Chief proposed a European system and the government rejected it. The other only other European firm that may have offered Pakistan a medium-range SAM would be the German company Diehl/BGT; at IDEAS 2006, they reportedly offered the IRIS-T SL to Pakistan. The IRIS-T SL is part of the MEADS Program and its role is to be a medium-range system. Apparently it is considerably different from the air-launched IRIS-T, as the SL includes booster and some other stuff that makes it a medium-range missile.

Other options for medium-range SAMs include the MBDA SAMP-T with the Aster 30 missile, the Chinese KS-1A and American SL-AMRAAM.

Short-range could be anything IMO. Could be the Chinese TY-90, French Crotale NG, German LFK NG, etc. I am not terribly concerned, but do note that the LFK NG is also based off the IRIS-T. In fact, the sub-launched SAM "IDAS" is also based off IRIS-T. If you ask me, these IRIS-T variants can settle a lot of Pakistan's Air Defence requirement. The order would be large because it would include SAMs for land and sea based, as well as possibility of air-launched IRIS-T. So local manufacturing would be an incentive for such a huge requirement.

I've noticed though, the IRIS-T SL, SAMP-T and most Western SAM systems have focused on mobility and datalink. The network I've noticed written when associated with AD is Battle Management C4I. I wonder if it is adequate to assume that Pakistan's future Air Defence system will be net-centric and focused on mobility?

 

[saumyasupratik]

Other options for medium-range SAMs include the MBDA SAMP-T with the Aster 30 missile, the Chinese KS-1A and American SL-AMRAAM.

SAMP-T is a medium range SAM?It has a 20KM Altitude and 120KM Range, that's definitely not a medium range SAM and is bidding for the Turkish long range SAM which include the Patriot PAC-2, SAMP-T, S-400 and HQ-9 which makes it a long range SAM.Although it's target engagement altitude is less than those of the S-400, HQ-9 and PAC-2 it's still regarder as a long range SAM.
Most medium rang SAM's have 15-25KM Altitude and 30-50KM Range like the ones your mentioned including the Kub, Buk, Hawk and Spyder MR-SAM.

 

[Arsalan]

still no news regarding HQ-9 or FT-2000 SAM?

eaither it is dead or is something being kept highly confidential!

the SPADA induction is confirmed!
we also have a facility in Karachi for perhaps small scale maintenance works!
http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakist...a-2000-plus-complex-inauguration-karachi.html

SPADA 2000 Missile
The Spada 2000 is an all-weather, day and night, highly automated, advanced air defence system."The system provides air defence missile coverage of 2,000km;. Target detection and tracking range is up to 60km and the missiles can intercept crossing and approaching targets to a range of 25km. The kill probability is high, even against highly agile crossing targets. The system can engage up to four targets simultaneously with Aspide missiles.

Detection System:
RAC-3D radar
Aspide 2000's radar is the Selex Sistemi Integrati (formerly Alenia Marconi Systems) RAC-3D, which gives three-dimensional volumetric air surveillance, detection and tracking. The system has the capacity to track 100 targets simultaneously within a range of 60km.

The radar is capable of operating in hostile electronic warfare environments and is robust against clutter interference and electronic countermeasures. The radar features emission control, jamming location, random frequency agility and coded waveforms. The radar's erectable antenna is up to 13m in height.

Operations Center
The operations centre is manned by two operators for mission planning, system deployment and management during combat operations. The computer displays the air threat data in 3D coordinates.

The system tracks, identifies and prioritises the targets and assigns the firing sections to the priority targets. The targets can also be assigned to other anti-air weapon systems. The system is able to coordinate up to ten small anti-air weapons deployed within a 10km radius.

Missile
The Aspide 2000 missile is an upgraded version of the Aspide surface-to-air missile. The missile is capable of engaging hostile attack aircraft before the aircraft can release airborne standoff weapons. The Aspide 2000 is also capable of intercepting air-launched missiles once launched. The upgraded missile uses an enhanced single-stage rocket motor which provides increased missile speed, higher lateral acceleration and effective range.

The missile is also in service with the Italian Air Force and the Royal Thai Air Force as part of the Oerlikon Contraves Skyguard air defence system.

The high-thrust single-stage solid-propellant rocket motor provides high supersonic speed and high agility to intercept manoeuvring targets. The guidance system is semi-active radar homing.

this no doubt is one of our finest purchases and and a real good advanced SAM system.

however, we still need to get some High altitude SAM systems and HQ-9 and/or FT-2000 will be perfect!

regards!

 

[rockstarIN]

25 km range is low to medium..to complete you need a medium range and one high range system.

 

[killerx]

bro there is an SD10 missile version on wikipedia used as sam on battle ships of china chances we can built one of our own

Surface launched version

Like the AIM-120 AMRAAM, PL-12 is also used as SAM, and tests have already successfully completed as the possible replacement of LY-60, but such system has not entered service because China has already been developing the vertical launched version. The vertical launching system is developed by the Luoyang Optronic Technological Development Center in Henan, and the system is called CCL, short for Concentric Cylindrical Launcher, which is similar to American Mk 48 VLS in appearance, but due to the very limited information publicized, it is difficult to tell if the Chinese VLS is a "cold launch" system or a "hot launch" system like that of American Mk 48 VLS.

LS-II ADS

At the 7th Zhuhai Airshow held at the end of 2008, a mobile air defense system (ADS) based on PL-12/SD-10 were revealed to the public. The weapon system is designated as LS-II ADS, with LS stands for Lie Shou, meaning Hunter in Chinese (猎&#25163. The launching system does not incorporate VLS technology, but is very similar to Raytheon SL-AMRAAM (Surface Launched - Advanced Air-to-Air Missile).

The launching platform is Dongfeng (东风, East Wind) EQ2050 Iron Armor (Tiejia, 铁&#30002 or other Chinese High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV), and like SL-AMRAAM, both the short-range IR guided AAM and medium-range AAM are included. The Chinese LS-II ADS launching platform differs from its Raytheon counterpart in that the latter has a total of 6 missiles, while former only has four. LS-II ADS only contains two short-range IR guided AAMs (PL-9) and two medium-range AAMs (PL-12/SD-10), with PL-12/SD-10 missiles mounted in the center, and the PL-9 missiles mounted on the outside. The second pair of medium-range AAMs of Raytheon SL-AMRAAM system outside the short-range IR guided AAMs does not exist on the Chinese LS-II ADS.

In addition to the launching vehicle, LS-II ADS also include two other vehicles, which is also often based on the Dongfeng (东风, East Wind) EQ2050 Iron Armor (Tiejia, 铁&#30002 or other Chinese High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV), for the purpose to simplify logistics, though chassis of other vehicles are also available. One of the two other vehicle is for power source, and LS-II ADS can be fully functional without it, though on a shorter continuous operation. When engaging targets, PL-9/DK-9 would engage targets at lower altitude while PL-12/SD-10 would engage targets at higher altitude, and multiple missiles can be fired together to simultaneously engage multiple targets.

Another vehicle of LS-II ADS carries a passive-phased array radar for fire control. The new radar is based on the anti-stealth radar shown a year earlier at defense exhibition at Abu Dhabi in 2007, and appears to be a scaled-down version of the former. However, the developer dubbed the radar as Anti-low radar cross section early warning radar, though some capability against stealth target do exist. Electro-optical fire control system is mounted separately on the roof of the driver's cabin of the launching vehicle, and can function independently in the absence of the radar. LS-II ADS is integrated to the larger air defense network via LIN87 data link.

 

[rockstarIN]

Even SD-10 from a sea level surface to air launch will give you a range of 10-12 kms only.

 

[Kompromat]

*Sticky thread for ALL Surface to air missile systems in the world.

Tor-M1.

@ANTIBODY @Luftwaffe