Surface To Air Missiles | Terror in the Sky.

[batmannow]

I think its not an error may be for evaluation (to know how capable it is). For your information US also bought a S-300V from Russia for evaluation.

plz show the credible link, here
i guss , F-7 isnt any worth to USA to evaluate it, its not the hidden "supergun"?

 

[ironman]

plz show the credible link, here
i guss , F-7 isnt any worth to USA to evaluate it, its not the hidden "supergun"?

http://www.stratfor.com/russia_fundamentals_russian_air_defense_exports

Here is the link.. sorry not from russia its from former soviet union states(croatia).

Russia: The Fundamentals of Russian Air Defense Exports
August 24, 2007 | 1604 GMT
Russian S-300 (SA-10
Summary

Russia displayed the new S-400 surface-to-air missile system at the MAKS 2007 air show in Moscow that began Aug. 21. Although Belarusian Defense Minister Col. Gen. Leonid Maltsev expressed interest in acquiring it, Moscow is not ready to export the S-400.
Analysis

Russia displayed its latest surface-to-air missile system, the S-400 Triumf, at the Aug. 21-26 MAKS 2007 air show in Moscow. The system was tested successfully in July and is now slowly being deployed around Moscow. Other countries, including Belarus, are keenly interested in the latest air defense technology. However, Igor Ashurbeily, CEO of S-400 producer Almaz Central Design Bureau, made it clear Aug. 23 that the system will not be exported until 2009. Russian air defense considerations, financial prudence and foreign policy all tend to argue for even longer delays in export.
History

Air defense is hardwired into the Russian military psyche. For much of the Cold War, Russia was at an extreme disadvantage in terms of intercontinental reach — especially in terms of aerial reconnaissance and strategic bombers. To put it simply, Russia was more vulnerable to U.S. reconnaissance planes and strategic bombers than the United States was to Soviet planes.
MAP - Russia - from globe

Part of this is geography, part is history. The United States began designing an intercontinental bomber to reach Tokyo the moment the Japanese fleet bombed Pearl Harbor. The Russians, on the other hand, were fighting a massive and devastating land war against the seasoned German army. They had little time or patience for the niceties of long-range aviation. That disparity defined how each emerged from World War II to wage the Cold War. Air defense — particularly surface-to-air missiles — was consequently a major strategic consideration for the Soviets.
Today

At the apex of this tradition are the late models of the S-300 series, especially the S-300PMU2, which are renowned as some of the best air defense hardware money can buy. Their range and capability make them coveted strategic defensive assets. With exceptionally long ranges, they can reportedly engage stealth aircraft and low-flying cruise missiles, and even intercept shorter-range ballistic missiles.

The S-400 is the most recent variant. Despite the new designation, at one point the program was known as the S-300PMU3. The S-400 is quite similar to its older cousins, especially in outward appearance.

If the nomenclature here is beginning to get a bit dense, that is no accident. The Soviets became quite adept at clouding their military capabilities by using confusing basic distinctions. Two “variants” of the same system could bear little apparent and even less actual resemblance to one another.

This also cuts the other way. Moscow can use changes in nomenclature to make two quite similar systems appear to be very different. These skills are not lost on today’s Kremlin.
Export

This is where export considerations begin to come into play. The ruse works only while no one else knows the finer points of the system. As long as the latest missiles remain sealed in their launch canisters and the electronic emissions of their engagement radars remain more or less out of the reach of American hands, the unknown remains unknown.

Widespread proliferation of S-400 batteries would make them increasingly accessible to study — clandestine or otherwise — by the U.S. military. (The Department of Defense acquired several components of various older versions of the S-300 from former Soviet Union states in the 1990s.) Such study would allow a concrete picture of the system’s capabilities to emerge. A concrete picture defines the parameters of a problem, and a problem with parameters allows for the creation of concrete solutions.
Resale Value

The second reason Moscow is unlikely to let the S-400 slip out the door any time soon is that the Russian military-industrial complex has become particularly adept at refurbishing and upgrading old equipment and turning it around at a profit. Indeed, it is still selling variants of air defense systems with roots in the late 1950s. The Kremlin can then use this money to finance production and upgrades of the latest systems for itself. Meanwhile, it locks in a returning customer, who keeps coming back for upgrades and replacements for hardware that is much closer to slipping into obsolescence. This kind of thinking has an economic logic to it.
Foreign Policy

More than anything else, the export of strategic weapon systems is a tool of foreign policy. Such sales can help facilitate military cooperation or simply aid the enemy of one’s enemy. Moscow certainly was not playing nice when it delivered shorter-range Tor-M1 surface-to-air missile systems to Iran. But Russia thus far appears to have refrained from selling more serious systems — such as late-model S-300 systems — to either Iran or Syria, despite sincere efforts on the part of both Tehran and Damascus. That is a line Moscow has decided not to cross with Washington.

Moscow has not widely sold the latest models of the S-300 system, and the Russians are hardly likely to begin exporting the S-400 before they expand production of its predecessor systems. Circumstances can change, however, especially as the United States continues to push toward a pair of ballistic missile defense bases in Europe, and Moscow is taking this potential shift into consideration.
Russia Holds its Ground

Ultimately, the S-400 builds on its predecessor. It is almost certainly an incremental improvement over the S-300PMU2. Those improvements, however, largely appear to be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. However, even if the S-400 is little more than the S-300PMU2 with a new paint job, it is still one of the best strategic air defense assets money can buy. And Russia gains little from the system’s capabilities being distributed internationally and pinpointed any further.

Although the deployment of the S-400 around Moscow hardly equates to Russia’s readiness to put the system on the export market, the fielding of this “next generation” will lead almost inexorably to the increased export of later-model S-300s. That alone will facilitate a qualitative leap in air defense for a number of buyers.

Though the only true test for such systems is a shooting war, Russian air defense technology appears to be, at the very least, holding its ground in the face of generational advances by the U.S. Air Force — and that technology will become increasingly available for the right price.

 

[Super Falcon]

i think there might be another option for us no doubt S-300 version of chinese is very good but it cannot detect stealth fighter jets and indian will get around 2017 their pakfa which paf cannot detect them on their radars and iaf will intrude our airspace whenever they want and they can attck us without us knowing them we can ask china to get the tech of S-400 from russia after they get it both pakistan and china co-produce it because china also have threat from growing indian militry aquasition and if we get it i think iaf will think twice before sending their state of the art pak-fa in pakistan air space but i also know it is easier said than done but if russia can sell india the stealth fighter jets and tech why not they can sell china the other option china is bigger arms buyer than india to russia and russia also know china is bigger market than india and india know switching towards western weapons and ukraine also an option for us if they have this tech S-400 we can get from them remember T80UD

 

[Super Falcon]

does PAF has any plans how to counter a fighter jet like PAK-FA which cannot be detected on any radars which we have and no air defence system other than S-400 can have lock on them

 

[batmannow]

Free Article for Non-Members | Stratfor

Here is the link.. sorry not from russia its from former soviet union states(croatia).

Russia: The Fundamentals of Russian Air Defense Exports
August 24, 2007 | 1604 GMT
Russian S-300 (SA-10
Summary

Russia displayed the new S-400 surface-to-air missile system at the MAKS 2007 air show in Moscow that began Aug. 21. Although Belarusian Defense Minister Col. Gen. Leonid Maltsev expressed interest in acquiring it, Moscow is not ready to export the S-400.
Analysis

Russia displayed its latest surface-to-air missile system, the S-400 Triumf, at the Aug. 21-26 MAKS 2007 air show in Moscow. The system was tested successfully in July and is now slowly being deployed around Moscow. Other countries, including Belarus, are keenly interested in the latest air defense technology. However, Igor Ashurbeily, CEO of S-400 producer Almaz Central Design Bureau, made it clear Aug. 23 that the system will not be exported until 2009. Russian air defense considerations, financial prudence and foreign policy all tend to argue for even longer delays in export.
History

Air defense is hardwired into the Russian military psyche. For much of the Cold War, Russia was at an extreme disadvantage in terms of intercontinental reach — especially in terms of aerial reconnaissance and strategic bombers. To put it simply, Russia was more vulnerable to U.S. reconnaissance planes and strategic bombers than the United States was to Soviet planes.
MAP - Russia - from globe

Part of this is geography, part is history. The United States began designing an intercontinental bomber to reach Tokyo the moment the Japanese fleet bombed Pearl Harbor. The Russians, on the other hand, were fighting a massive and devastating land war against the seasoned German army. They had little time or patience for the niceties of long-range aviation. That disparity defined how each emerged from World War II to wage the Cold War. Air defense — particularly surface-to-air missiles — was consequently a major strategic consideration for the Soviets.
Today

At the apex of this tradition are the late models of the S-300 series, especially the S-300PMU2, which are renowned as some of the best air defense hardware money can buy. Their range and capability make them coveted strategic defensive assets. With exceptionally long ranges, they can reportedly engage stealth aircraft and low-flying cruise missiles, and even intercept shorter-range ballistic missiles.

The S-400 is the most recent variant. Despite the new designation, at one point the program was known as the S-300PMU3. The S-400 is quite similar to its older cousins, especially in outward appearance.

If the nomenclature here is beginning to get a bit dense, that is no accident. The Soviets became quite adept at clouding their military capabilities by using confusing basic distinctions. Two “variants” of the same system could bear little apparent and even less actual resemblance to one another.

This also cuts the other way. Moscow can use changes in nomenclature to make two quite similar systems appear to be very different. These skills are not lost on today’s Kremlin.
Export

This is where export considerations begin to come into play. The ruse works only while no one else knows the finer points of the system. As long as the latest missiles remain sealed in their launch canisters and the electronic emissions of their engagement radars remain more or less out of the reach of American hands, the unknown remains unknown.

Widespread proliferation of S-400 batteries would make them increasingly accessible to study — clandestine or otherwise — by the U.S. military. (The Department of Defense acquired several components of various older versions of the S-300 from former Soviet Union states in the 1990s.) Such study would allow a concrete picture of the system’s capabilities to emerge. A concrete picture defines the parameters of a problem, and a problem with parameters allows for the creation of concrete solutions.
Resale Value

The second reason Moscow is unlikely to let the S-400 slip out the door any time soon is that the Russian military-industrial complex has become particularly adept at refurbishing and upgrading old equipment and turning it around at a profit. Indeed, it is still selling variants of air defense systems with roots in the late 1950s. The Kremlin can then use this money to finance production and upgrades of the latest systems for itself. Meanwhile, it locks in a returning customer, who keeps coming back for upgrades and replacements for hardware that is much closer to slipping into obsolescence. This kind of thinking has an economic logic to it.
Foreign Policy

More than anything else, the export of strategic weapon systems is a tool of foreign policy. Such sales can help facilitate military cooperation or simply aid the enemy of one’s enemy. Moscow certainly was not playing nice when it delivered shorter-range Tor-M1 surface-to-air missile systems to Iran. But Russia thus far appears to have refrained from selling more serious systems — such as late-model S-300 systems — to either Iran or Syria, despite sincere efforts on the part of both Tehran and Damascus. That is a line Moscow has decided not to cross with Washington.

Moscow has not widely sold the latest models of the S-300 system, and the Russians are hardly likely to begin exporting the S-400 before they expand production of its predecessor systems. Circumstances can change, however, especially as the United States continues to push toward a pair of ballistic missile defense bases in Europe, and Moscow is taking this potential shift into consideration.
Russia Holds its Ground

Ultimately, the S-400 builds on its predecessor. It is almost certainly an incremental improvement over the S-300PMU2. Those improvements, however, largely appear to be evolutionary rather than revolutionary. However, even if the S-400 is little more than the S-300PMU2 with a new paint job, it is still one of the best strategic air defense assets money can buy. And Russia gains little from the system’s capabilities being distributed internationally and pinpointed any further.

Although the deployment of the S-400 around Moscow hardly equates to Russia’s readiness to put the system on the export market, the fielding of this “next generation” will lead almost inexorably to the increased export of later-model S-300s. That alone will facilitate a qualitative leap in air defense for a number of buyers.

Though the only true test for such systems is a shooting war, Russian air defense technology appears to be, at the very least, holding its ground in the face of generational advances by the U.S. Air Force — and that technology will become increasingly available for the right price.

dear sir,
"several components of various older versions of the S-300 from former Soviet Union states in the 1990s"

severl components, cant be consider as a whole of the system?
dear, plz try to get translation of the "SEVERAL" & "COMPONENTS".

 

[batmannow]

i think there might be another option for us no doubt S-300 version of chinese is very good but it cannot detect stealth fighter jets and indian will get around 2017 their pakfa which paf cannot detect them on their radars and iaf will intrude our airspace whenever they want and they can attck us without us knowing them we can ask china to get the tech of S-400 from russia after they get it both pakistan and china co-produce it because china also have threat from growing indian militry aquasition and if we get it i think iaf will think twice before sending their state of the art pak-fa in pakistan air space but i also know it is easier said than done but if russia can sell india the stealth fighter jets and tech why not they can sell china the other option china is bigger arms buyer than india to russia and russia also know china is bigger market than india and india know switching towards western weapons and ukraine also an option for us if they have this tech S-400 we can get from them remember T80UD

Super Falcon;SIR
which stealth fighter jets PAKISTAN should be affraid off describe it? FOR NOW
also S-300 version of chinese , & other SAM SYSTEM made in CHINA are good enough to detect & destroy the incomming threat, if these systems can be lined with Y-8, & other early air born warrning systems , already in service in PAF!
NO WAY , getting S-400 from any other country thn china, ukraine will never going to give PAKISTAN , without approval of RUSSIA.

 

[Super Falcon]

Super Falcon;SIR
which stealth fighter jets PAKISTAN should be affraid off describe it? FOR NOW
also S-300 version of chinese , & other SAM SYSTEM made in CHINA are good enough to detect & destroy the incomming threat, if these systems can be lined with Y-8, & other early air born warrning systems , already in service in PAF!
NO WAY , getting S-400 from any other country thn china, ukraine will never going to give PAKISTAN , without approval of RUSSIA.

i think you did not read my post completely why ukraine sold us T 80 even after russia does not give them aproval and im talking about PAK-FA which is stealth and also we have threat from US for some extant

 

[ironman]

dear sir,
"several components of various older versions of the S-300 from former Soviet Union states in the 1990s"

severl components, cant be consider as a whole of the system?
dear, plz try to get translation of the "SEVERAL" & "COMPONENTS".

Another one.. its from croatia.

MissileThreat :: U.S. Acquires S-300 Via Croatia

 

[ironman]

I've a doubt here. S-300 is made by Russia and they are now developing PAK-FA. Dont they consider own system which is also a possibility of threat to 'stealth' ??..

 

[batmannow]

Another one.. its from croatia.

MissileThreat :: U.S. Acquires S-300 Via Croatia

ironman;sir
look i dont want get into more un needed discussion,let me assure to you, that even S-300 isnt a worry to USA, as for research purposes they, may took some of the parts or "components" from S-300 , but they never tryied the whole system.
as from the document posted by the gentlmen , its rubbish that USA, buyed F-7s from china.
when you dont know about the things, plz stay out of it, or at least try to ask ,some senior indian militry folk, before starting any claims.
i can find a lot garbbge on internet, to satisfy any body, but professionaly it sucks!

 

[batmannow]

i think you did not read my post completely why ukraine sold us T 80 even after russia does not give them aproval and im talking about PAK-FA which is stealth and also we have threat from US for some extant

Super Falcon; sir
i think, T 80 deal, isnt important to both russia & ukraine, as it compared to s-300 or s-400, PAK-FA is fine project, but it still in process thus nothing is confrimed about it, till now its all speculations.
we cant act on the basis of "speculations", i would like to ensure you that if there would be any possibility of getting "s-300 or s-400," from UKRAINE, we had done that a long time ago!

if we, can put as many AWCAS & Y-8 in the air & conect them with GROUND BASED SAM systems like CHINESE version of , HQ-9, HQ-10, HQ-12 plus upgraded S-300's , it would be a very very & very tough situation , even RAPTOR have to think about the timming & other details before , intruding in to pakistan aero space.1000% surly!

 

[Moscow]

sir lets get some info right,
the s-400 is not available for sale yet only and only russia has the system and they have installed 2 sets of it in the moscow region, russia will offer the s-400 for sale to other countries from nov 2009 not before that so if any other country wants the s-400 for now they can only get it from russia alone,the main feture of the s-400 system is its range and counter syealth radars in the vhf frequency which is a death nail for stealth fighters like jsf f-35 but not for the raptor.

as regarding the s-300 it was the best air defence system during its time and it can be acquired from most soviet origin countries.

regarding the stealth technology ito be used in pakfa its not the same as the raptor or the jsf its plasma stealth generated by a plasma generator which forms a plasma cloued round the aircraft the generator to be applied is already prepared but its integration into the pakfa will take time.moreover no air defence system is prepared till now to counter the plasma stealth because the stealth itself is non -existent.

the more recent update is that after the complete installation of s-400 russia already started planning and development of the s-500 system and are looking for partners.

thanks

 

[satishkumarcsc]

sir lets get some info right,
the s-400 is not available for sale yet only and only russia has the system and they have installed 2 sets of it in the moscow region, russia will offer the s-400 for sale to other countries from nov 2009 not before that so if any other country wants the s-400 for now they can only get it from russia alone,the main feture of the s-400 system is its range and counter syealth radars in the vhf frequency which is a death nail for stealth fighters like jsf f-35 but not for the raptor.

as regarding the s-300 it was the best air defence system during its time and it can be acquired from most soviet origin countries.

regarding the stealth technology ito be used in pakfa its not the same as the raptor or the jsf its plasma stealth generated by a plasma generator which forms a plasma cloued round the aircraft the generator to be applied is already prepared but its integration into the pakfa will take time.moreover no air defence system is prepared till now to counter the plasma stealth because the stealth itself is non -existent.

the more recent update is that after the complete installation of s-400 russia already started planning and development of the s-500 system and are looking for partners.

thanks

Sir,

One of my friends working on the plasma stealth in the Severnaya lab told me that they are encountering problems with it. It seems to be screwing with the radar frequencies of the carrier aircraft and with the information transfers. Has that been sorted out? I know that the Russians are the only people who have the third generation plasma tech. And these have caused problems for the radar and the plasma generator weight was also an issue. So the PAK-FA will have only conventional stealth and Plasma tech can be seen only as late as 2025 on the aircraft.

 

[Moscow]

Sir,

One of my friends working on the plasma stealth in the Severnaya lab told me that they are encountering problems with it. It seems to be screwing with the radar frequencies of the carrier aircraft and with the information transfers. Has that been sorted out? I know that the Russians are the only people who have the third generation plasma tech. And these have caused problems for the radar and the plasma generator weight was also an issue. So the PAK-FA will have only conventional stealth and Plasma tech can be seen only as late as 2025 on the aircraft.

sir you are absolutely right that is why i posted that the generator is ready but its integration will take time,maybe they will change the type of radar to be used for the pakfa such as a spherical or elliptical radar to overcome such difficulties but high technical details are beyond the scope of my knowledge but the scientic work is going on at a high rate and we must be hoping for some good news soon.
thanx

 

[Super Falcon]

Super Falcon; sir
i think, T 80 deal, isnt important to both russia & ukraine, as it compared to s-300 or s-400, PAK-FA is fine project, but it still in process thus nothing is confrimed about it, till now its all speculations.
we cant act on the basis of "speculations", i would like to ensure you that if there would be any possibility of getting "s-300 or s-400," from UKRAINE, we had done that a long time ago!

if we, can put as many AWCAS & Y-8 in the air & conect them with GROUND BASED SAM systems like CHINESE version of , HQ-9, HQ-10, HQ-12 plus upgraded S-300's , it would be a very very & very tough situation , even RAPTOR have to think about the timming & other details before , intruding in to pakistan aero space.1000% surly!

S-300 cannot detect any staelth fighter jets so how can S-300 destoy them only S-400 has the capability to detect and destroy stelth fighter jets
S-300 we can get from ukraine becoz ukraine also need customers but we need better air defence system which is available becoz we lack in numbers and from IAF