Sukhoi PAK-FA / FGFA: Updates,News & Discussions

[DARKY]

 

[tvsram1992]

sexy no no stealthy
hope the engines are remodeled and it looks same in back view .

 

[DARKY]

Parked at MAKC

 

[mitth]

happy and cool...............
nice no no good

 

[DARKY]

sexy no no stealthy
hope the engines are remodeled and it looks same in back view .

Somehow most of us have developed a wrong and misleading conception that STEALTH = F-22A shaped thing..... However its just one of many such possible shapes..... The designers who designed PAK FA perhaps chose one of such possible shapes which did not look like F-22A Intakes..... these intakes which are separated have evolved though the precious experienced gained from the Su 27 project..... Yes it does sacrifices stealth to a certain extent however that is not of much concern thanks to the super maneuverability it offers.

 

[DARKY]

 

[DARKY]

Item 117C.

Possible Item 117

 

[sancho]

Somehow most of us have developed a wrong and misleading conception that STEALTH = F-22A shaped thing.....

That's the point, everybody looks at it and thinks no matter what, a stealth fighter has to be like the F22 and to a certain extend the T50 even does look like it, because it shares the same angled airframe shapings like all steath fighters:

As you can see, no matter if we look at the airframe, or the wings, they have a similar design, for the same purpose. The only point that is really different is, that most stealth fighters uses ducted air intakes, to hide the compressor blades from radar waves, but since the T50 don't has the final engines yet we can't say how the final config will look like. The most likely concept that is rumored is the use of radar blockers, we know from other fighters that this is a concept that works very well as well. The F18SH uses radar blockers, the Saab Gripen uses radar blockers as well and both are said to have a very low RCS as well. Boeing even presented the X32 with radar blockers against the X35 from LM and although it lost the competition, lack of stealth was not the reason, but engine problems of the VTOL version!

So the simple conclusion that T50 is not a stealth fighter, because it's design differs too much from other stealth fighters is simply silly.

 

[Dash]

That's the point, everybody looks at it and thinks no matter what, a stealth fighter has to be like the F22 and to a certain extend the T50 even does look like it, because it shares the same angled airframe shapings like all steath fighters:
So the simple conclusion that T50 is not a stealth fighter, because it's design differs too much from other stealth fighters is simply silly.

Just a thought, the current testing that is going on with T50 has been undertaken with the current engine. When the new engine comes then the under fusalage and intake has to be redesigned to achive more stealth, we even ruled out S-shaped intake ( or it is still there?). However the new engine is abouot better thurst, so Do you think they are actually waiting for the new engine to reshape the intakes?, I dont think so.

I think all that could possibly change is the gap between 2 intakes, which is not a flat one now will change to a flat one. Or may be thwill have the S-Shaped intake in place. Thats max I could forsee, what do you think?

 

[typhoon77]

Just a thought, the current testing that is going on with T50 has been undertaken with the current engine. When the new engine comes then the under fusalage and intake has to be redesigned to achive more stealth, we even ruled out S-shaped intake ( or it is still there?). However the new engine is abouot better thurst, so Do you think they are actually waiting for the new engine to reshape the intakes?, I dont think so.

I think all that could possibly change is the gap between 2 intakes, which is not a flat one now will change to a flat one. Or may be thwill have the S-Shaped intake in place. Thats max I could forsee, what do you think?

Early drawings and renditions showed that PAK-FA originally was supposed to have S-ducts but were removed when the design was finally frozen. No one knows the actual dimensions of the new engine but they cannot be that different from the current one. Other wise you would have to redesign portions of PAK-FA which would take years. If you redesigned the fuslage like the F-22 you would compromise PAK-FA's maneuverability. The intakes won't be redesigned it would set the program back a couple of years, which Russia cannot afford.
Here's a rendering of what the back end could look like with the new engines + flat nozzles.

 

[typhoon77]

Does anyone know anything about this pic? I found it when looking for PAK-FA pictures. At first i thought it was a pic of a proposed F-22/35 s-duct, b/c of the yellow sign, but i don't think its english so it could be Russian. I know the Su-47 had S-ducts maybe its a pic of that?

 

[angeldemon_007]

FGFA with LCA

 

[Black Widow]

FGFA with LCA

I saw it today flying near HAL port.. It was too good to see FGFA with LCA...

 

[Dash]

Early drawings and renditions showed that PAK-FA originally was supposed to have S-ducts but were removed when the design was finally frozen. No one knows the actual dimensions of the new engine but they cannot be that different from the current one. Other wise you would have to redesign portions of PAK-FA which would take years. If you redesigned the fuslage like the F-22 you would compromise PAK-FA's maneuverability. The intakes won't be redesigned it would set the program back a couple of years, which Russia cannot afford.
Here's a rendering of what the back end could look like with the new engines + flat nozzles.

Even I was thinking the same, no major redesign will happen post the induction of new engines, and that if they manage to achive it before IOC, and some said its doubtful. So the first lot of aitcrafts will have the current engine.

I was thinking if they will redesign the under ferusalage but thats where PAKFA gets its lift and manuevarability. SO thats ruled out too. Mostly like what Sancho said, the radar reflective coating/material will be used.

Regarding the engine exhust, it will mostly hexagonal as shown in this picture...
Like the designer menioned earlier, they will compromise some aspect of stealth to give an affordable/maintanable 5th Gen fighter, unlike the F-22 or even the B-2 where they said the serviciability of the craft is not affordable just because of the coatings...So that will make sense.

 

[sancho]

Just a thought, the current testing that is going on with T50 has been undertaken with the current engine. When the new engine comes then the under fusalage and intake has to be redesigned to achive more stealth, we even ruled out S-shaped intake ( or it is still there?). However the new engine is abouot better thurst, so Do you think they are actually waiting for the new engine to reshape the intakes?, I dont think so.

I think all that could possibly change is the gap between 2 intakes, which is not a flat one now will change to a flat one. Or may be thwill have the S-Shaped intake in place. Thats max I could forsee, what do you think?

Hi Dash, I can't really say how the final solution will be, but I don't think that the air intake, nor the fuselage have to be re-designed:

As you can see the air intake is already "stealthy" shaped and it's mainly the part that was not painted in the new scheme that might be changed. So the external coverings might get some angled shapings with the final engine instead of the rounded parts it has now, but what's more interesting is the internal changes from the air intake to the engine compressor. An S-duct might not be possible, but the whole air intake/engine arrangement of the T50 is very comlicated anyway!
Most fighters have their engines next to eachother and in a straight line, with the s-duct in front of them towards the air intake (in some cases you also see DSI, but for directing the airflow, not for stealth purposes), so the only part that has some curves is the duct!
The T50 instead has a totally different arrangement, because it has no duct at the moment, but with the gear bays integrated into the air intakes, it has also a kind of DSI, which in this case not only directs the airflow, but also hides a part of the engine face and a similar feature is on the inner intake side as well. But that's not all, the engines aren't located in a normal straight line, but angled which increases the curvy look even more, because the compressor part lower than the nozzle part and the engine is also tilted to the outside. So it's totally different from what we normally see anyway and not without any reasons.
What's also unlcear so far and might be different for Pak Fa / FGFA as well, is the design of the nozzles. I wouldn't be surprised if the Russians prefer a rounded 3D TVN with some shapings like the F35 nozzle, while we might prefer a similar 2D nozzle of the F22, like the one shown in Typhoon77s pic.

---------- Post added at 11:59 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------

FGFA with LCA

Nice, add Rafale to it and it's perfect!