Sukhoi-30MKI is India’s fallback fighter

[Basel]

/watch?v=RAedQ7FMiKo

Link not complete.

 

[sancho]

EF lack something in WVR that is why the are planing to upgrade its WVR fighting capabilities.

During more or less a decade of service with the Italian Air Force, the F-16 has been extensively used to train Typhoon pilots in WVR engagements. According to the Italian pilots, the F-16 matches the F-2000 under 10,000 feet. But above FL100 the Typhoon becomes quite difficult to beat since its superior aerodynamics give the Eurofighter can out maneuver the Viper at every engagement.

The Aviationist » How does the F-16 perform against its adversaries in dogfight?


The LERX will improve the already excellent maneuverability of the EF, just in a wider range of scenarios. However, so far it's just a study of the EF consortium for the upgrade roadmap, just as TVC, CFTs, or increased engine thrust.

 

[surya kiran]

Do you read my post on last page, about BVR kill probability case study? Do read it once again. At BVR ranges, Electronic jammers of PAF aircrafts would degrade BVR kill probabilty as well. At best, They would disengage, comes out of BVR zone. Not a great tactic eh?

In near future it would get COBRA HMD, trails are on going in kamra. There is a video of it where pilot testing HMD. It's not a question of what, but when. It will get it eventually !

19 kills of 24 kills in the Gulf war of the AIM 7 were in the BVR envelope.

 

[MilSpec]

@sancho @sandy_3126 @Abingdonboy Is It True???

It's real....
Let me reiterate this for the members here. Exercise engagement results do not mean anything. It's called exercise for a reason. In Cope India Mig 21Bisons scored over both F16's and F15's. It doesn't make that a better aircraft. Similarly a tornado scoring over MKI, or a f16 scoring over a f15 or a eft doesn't make them better aircrafts than their target.

Engagements in ecercise have certain rules as they simulate certain conditions, there are also some constraints, such as radars running in practice modes, or limit to a certain ceiling level, or defined engagement envelope. Real combat doesn't have any such constraints.

 

[NKVD]

It's real....
Let me reiterate this for the members here. Exercise engagement results do not mean anything. It's called exercise for a reason. In Cope India Mig 21Bisons scored over both F16's and F15's. It doesn't make that a better aircraft. Similarly a tornado scoring over MKI, or a f16 scoring over a f15 or a eft doesn't make them better aircrafts than their target.

Engagements in ecercise have certain rules as they simulate certain conditions, there are also some constraints, such as radars running in practice modes, or limit to a certain ceiling level, or defined engagement envelope. Real combat doesn't have any such constraints.

Yeah good point

 

[Gessler]

It's real....
Let me reiterate this for the members here. Exercise engagement results do not mean anything. It's called exercise for a reason. In Cope India Mig 21Bisons scored over both F16's and F15's. It doesn't make that a better aircraft. Similarly a tornado scoring over MKI, or a f16 scoring over a f15 or a eft doesn't make them better aircrafts than their target.

Engagements in ecercise have certain rules as they simulate certain conditions, there are also some constraints, such as radars running in practice modes, or limit to a certain ceiling level, or defined engagement envelope. Real combat doesn't have any such constraints.

Exactly. As far as simulating real combat goes, I think Red Flag is the best place - but even that is not a fully level-playing field.

BTW, Luftwaffe Typhoons killed F-22s in close range dogfights. F-22 is termed as 'super-maneuverable' by Lockheed,
same company that produces F-16 too. If you ask a Lockheed executive, he'd say -16 is
crap compared to -22.

I'm sure everyone remembers the famous words from Luftwaffe pilots there "we had Raptor salad".

But then again, the same Typhoon may fail to repeat its performance against planes like -22 in real
combat, bcoz in realistic scenarios, -22 would probably kill EFT before it even sees the former properly.

Dogfighting abilities are harder to debate especially when both plans are highly maneuverable/agile and
well-equipped. Usually pilot tactics/training breaks the deadlock, if not missiles like ASRAAM or Russia's
upcoming K-30.

 

[ghauri05]

A pictorial representation of stealth mki with advanced ram coatings.

How many India plans to induct these? And if India inducts only these is there still a need of Rafael ???Super sukhoi provides you stealth features and is already a multi role proven aircraft!!!

 

[StormShadow]

How many India plans to induct these? And if India inducts only these is there still a need of Rafael ???Super sukhoi provides you stealth features and is already a multi role proven aircraft!!!

Around 42 I guess. Rafale are multirolefighters. Both will be complementing each other.

 

[NKVD]

How many India plans to induct these? And if India inducts only these is there still a need of Rafael ???Super sukhoi provides you stealth features and is already a multi role proven aircraft!!!

Sir ji all mki's are converted into sukhoi's soon or later intially starting with last lot of 42 sukhoi's it's upgrade programme .Rafale is a need for replacement of Medium combat platform it's also gets us sensitive tot which helps us in various programs like lca mk2 , AMCA etc .

 

[ghauri05]

Sir ji all mki's are converted into sukhoi's soon or later intially starting with last lot of 42 sukhoi's it's upgrade programme .Rafale is a need for replacement of Medium combat platform it's also gets us sensitive tot which helps us in various programs like lca mk2 , AMCA etc .

You can get that tot from your russian friends.....i am just saying having super sukhois and rafael...wouldn't it be redudancy for IAF of almost same class planes.???

 

[NKVD]

You can get that tot from your russian friends.....i am just saying having super sukhois and rafael...wouldn't it be redudancy for IAF of almost same class planes.???

Sir Rafale is medium combat aircraft and intended to replace same class fighters in IAF inventory.secondly the policy makers have to change policy in this regard that to much dependency on one supplier is not got also easy availability of Russian tech to Chinese also cause concern's to our authorities in long run.

 

[GURU DUTT]

Shows how much Delusional people can get. Let's put some sense in to you shall we, about BVR kill probability

even in that Mki will eat anything PAF has cause Mkican carry thrice the ammount of BVRs as JF17 and twice as much as F16 and according to indian air force doctroine BVRs are always fired in a pair (one IR & one AR) at a single target so tell me wil PAF jet will manouver owt to save itself or take risk of going in attack mode and even if it still evades both the BVRs somehow Mki can still fight back and save itself deu to massive jammerson board

 

[Windjammer]

@Windjammer Do you think in worst case senario PAF will have Sino Flankers available to handle IAF threat?? I m asking because PAF top notch pilots are flying them in China since some time.

Dude, that's another debate, can't you see the fanboys are having indigestion

Still There is No Participation in War Games It was Training Exercise Not War Games or Combat Excessive

"Red Flag has given the PAF the opportunity to deploy its assets and personnel around the world," said Group Captain Javad Saeed, the Pakistan Detachment commander. "It has also provided a contemporary air combat training environment for our less experienced aircrew members."

The PAF flew 57 air interdiction sorties in 12 days. "For PAF to participate in Red Flag, it required training and proficiency on air-to-air refueling operations," Captain Saeed said. The PAF, with U.S. Air Force support, was able to gain that proficiency and refuel 50 times for a total transfer of 110,900 pounds of jet fuel.

The captain said deploying to Nellis has given them the opportunity to interact and operate in a joint environment, allowing every person, unit and nation involved to learn from each other. He added that Red Flag provides a rich training environment shaped by different professional forces and nations."

Told you PAF is To Scared to Take Part In War Combat Exercise Rather they are Doing Training Exercises

IAF Got Balls to go Against Worlds Best Fighters One On One Unlike PAF,Red Flag,Grundaa, Etc you Name it

Both Sources Are not Official Sources Its Rather Defense ForumWebsites

See there you go again cherry picking and virtually kissing yourself.....and a big LOL on your comment @ ''Told you PAF is To Scared to Take Part In War Combat Exercise Rather they are Doing Training Exercise''.....so IAF is brave enough to participate in these combat exercises, since boards don't hit back.....let me enlighten you that5 apart from most other front line fighters, PAF has been even involved in combat exercise with what Indians can dream about.
The pilots, who are part of the 27th Fighter Squadron of Langley's 1st Fighter Wing, spent most of the deployment carrying out simulated combat missions at a training center in the United Arab Emirates, the Air Force said. They practiced against military pilots from Pakistan, Jordan, France and Britain.

F-22 Raptors return from training in Middle East | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

 

[NKVD]

Dude, that's another debate, can't you see the fanboys are having indigestion

See there you go again cherry picking and virtually kissing yourself.....and a big LOL on your comment @ ''Told you PAF is To Scared to Take Part In War Combat Exercise Rather they are Doing Training Exercise''.....so IAF is brave enough to participate in these combat exercises, since boards don't hit back.....let me enlighten you that5 apart from most other front line fighters, PAF has been even involved in combat exercise with what Indians can dream about.
The pilots, who are part of the 27th Fighter Squadron of Langley's 1st Fighter Wing, spent most of the deployment carrying out simulated combat missions at a training center in the United Arab Emirates, the Air Force said. They practiced against military pilots from Pakistan, Jordan, France and Britain.

F-22 Raptors return from training in Middle East | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

Simulater training yeah good good another stupid post accepted next you will put PaF playing ace combat 3 game missions

Really IAF dreams about paf training don't worry they have enough pockets to participate in air combat war games with best Western AF unlike paf with budget constrains p:p

 

[Windjammer]

Simulater training yeah good good another stupid post accepted next you will put PaF playing ace combat 3 game missions

Really IAF dreams about paf training don't worry they have enough pockets to participate in air combat war games with best Western AF unlike paf with budget constrains p:p

Are you a full retard or something, what do you think all these exercises involve..... simulated combat training.....or do you think that with IAF they fire real bullets.