What's new

Suicide bomb blast reported at 1-10 area of Islamabad at around 10:45 am

I believe you were advocating use of tanks and F16s in Balochistan.
I see nothing wrong with using F-16's or Tanks in Balochistan, if that saves lives of our foot soldiers. We did that on TTP and in Tribal areas of FATA so why special Treatment for BLA ? and they are now also mixing their independence BS with Islamic Jihad etc, so before this blow out of proportion we should put a stop to it by using sheer fire power.

You didn't answer any of my post.
Ask a Moderator to let me post freely and than I will answer every question.
 
. .
Ask a Moderator to let me post freely and than I will answer every question.
Scratch that I don't actually care.
I see nothing wrong with using F-16's or Tanks in Balochistan, if that saves lives of our foot soldiers. We did that on TTP and in Tribal areas of FATA so why special Treatment for BLA ? and they are now also mixing their independence BS with Islamic Jihad etc, so before this blow out of proportion we should put a stop to it by using sheer fire power.
You call the Baloch "barbaric" but advocate killing and displacement of innocent civilians and devastating whatever is remaining of that place, you are basically advocating ethnic cleansing. You know how much civilians were killed and displaced by the Pakistan Army after those operations? You advocate for genocide, term whole ethnic groups and people as "barbaric" and "uncivilised", and have delusions of supremacy. You have left India but it seems India hasn't left you.
 
.
Scratch that I don't actually care.

You call the Baloch "barbaric" but advocate killing and displacement of innocent civilians and devastating whatever is remaining of that place, you are basically advocating ethnic cleansing. You know how much civilians were killed and displaced by the Pakistan Army after those operations? You advocate for genocide, term whole ethnic groups and people as "barbaric" and "uncivilised", and have delusions of supremacy. You have left India but it seems India hasn't left you.
What's the point of discussion when the posts will either get deleted or you won't change your mind ? as I said you are free to love these people and I am free to believe what I believe but based on ground realities, as for ethnic cleansing of Baloch, you should ask this question to Army supporters because I am not (Not anymore) , and No I don't believe in killing civilians, but I do believe anyone who support terrorists and those who harm innocent people must be punished the same way we punish the actual terrorist, so if a Pashtoon give support to Afghan who hate Pakistani's and wants to kill them, deport or kill them both, and this goes to everyone including Urdu speaking or Baloch, if any Urdu speaking person take help from India to haram Pakistani's than deport or kill him/her. But this goes much deeper than that, the culture of Tribalizing which exists in both Baloch/Pashtoons have done more haram to Pakistan.
 
.
You are interested in topics which are usually thorough, long and have been discussed to death on this forum already. Have you been born and brought up in Pakistan ? I doubt it, but I don't know your story as to tell how much you know already because the background of Afghan and Iran involvement matters. And when you talk about Iran, you cannot ignore KSA involvement in Pakistan since its a competition between them.

FATA and Afghanistan

Going towards Afghan lobby, first you have to look at FATA. Why there wasn't a Government writ in FATA meaning FATA was used as buffer zone without any checks and balances till start of 2000's. It served as no-go zone for Pakistani forces except under some circumstances, this is why Levies existed. This meant that it was not only a smuggling/criminal safe haven for criminals, it also served as an entry point into Pakistan without any paperwork and then proceed towards any city of Pakistan. Anybody who wanted to go into hiding could go into FATA and hide there as long as he wanted. It also served as a settling base for mujahideen fighters of 80's era. They married, had kids and their lives were mostly unchecked even if they have rocket launchers hanging in their homes. KSA knew that a stronghold in Balochistan was not easy due to Iran and also that the religious motivation for Jihad in Afghanistan in 80s was the base of religion which was set to motivate recruits against Soviet Army and this base was what later influenced masjids in KPK and Punjab in Pakistan, later influenced FATA region and then the bloody Lal Masjid siege we saw.

Balcohistan and not just Iran

Now lets have a look at Iran which brings in Baluchistan. Not starting from 70's insurgency, lets jump forward to start of 2000's. Baluchistan has been a playground for Russians, Americans, Indians, Israelis, and Iranians. Now China has come in the picture through Gwadar so matters have taking a new turn. So many countries interested in one province of Pakistan. The pay structure 20 years ago for BLA was the ordinary recruits and basic insurgents getting around US $ 200 per month, a small fortune for anyone who never has a hope of landing any decent government job in their home towns. The section leaders get upward of US $ 300 and there are special bonuses for executing a task successfully. The course taught to BLA trainees is as follows with main subjects:
1. Baloch's right of independence
2. The Concept of Greater Balochistan
3. Sabotage as a tool for political struggle
4. Tyranny of Punjab and plight of oppressed nations
5. Media-friendly methods of mass protest.
Manuals, guidelines and even lecture plans are/were available in the Kometit [KGB] archives.

Iranians use the road of Zahidan-Quetta when they can find someone with legal documents as was the case with an Iranian who has business interests both in Pakistan and Iran and who came to Quetta. However, there are other entry points e.g. three main landing points in Balochistan:
1. Eastern lip of Gwater Bay that lies in the Iranian territory but affords easy crossover to Pakistan through unguarded land border;
2. Open space between Bomra and Khor Kalmat;
3. Easternmost shoulder of Gawadar East Bay.

India in Balochistan

Looking at the Indian side of things and how BLA is supported (excluding Afghanistan sanctuaries under RAW).
Kishangarh is a small Indian town, barely five kilometers from Pakistan border where the provinces of Punjab and Sindh
meet. There is a supply depot and a training centre there that maintains contacts with militant training camps in Pakistan, including Balochistan. There is also a logistics support depot near Shahgarh, about 90 kilometers from Kishangarh, that serves as launching pad for the Indian supplies and experts.

Arms and equipment such as Klashnikov, heavy machine guns, small AA guns, RPGs, mortars, landmines, ammunition and communication equipment are transferred from Kishangarh and Shahgarh to Pakistani side on camel back and then they are shifted to goods trucks, with some legitimate cargo on top and the whole load is covered by tarpauline sheets. Arms and equipment are, as a rule, boxed in CKD or SKD form.

The trucks have to travel only 140 or 180 kilometers to reach Sui and a little more to reach Kohlu, a distance that can be covered in a few hours only. This is most convenient route because transferring anything from Afghanistan to these areas demands much sturdy vehicles that must cover longer distance over difficult terrain.

Somethings have obviously changed now since we are in 2022/23 and I am talking of the very start from 2002 till 2006. But setting the premise was important so you can see how much has setup and established by enemies of Pakistan since early 2000's which made it a massive task for Pakistan Army and other LEAs to dislodge entrenched TTP from ground up. The problem of tackling BLA had not even begun on a bigger scale then.

This is just the start, there is a lot that has happened during various operations. Pakistan has to fight TTP and BLA at the same time, which is not a good strategy since Army should focus on TTP first while Federal LEAs should go after BLA.

Pakistanis should put Pakistan first instead of KSA or Iran, but the influx of different races in Pakistan and Afghan refugees have changed the dynamics of population and their integration into society has changed the mindset of public. One section of public wants refugees kicked out of Pakistan, others welcome them as brothers. This is where the problem lies, a division created in Pakistanis, by Pakistani public themselves through their own views. So what to talk of any Iranian or Afghan lobby when the Pakistani public chooses to act blind and deaf under the guise or politics or religion or family.
Thanks for the detailed post, would be very helpful if you could go over every country and their goals in Balochistan/Pakistan and what they managed to achieve so far historically upto the present.

On regards to the polarised Pakistani society, I completely understand your POV and it makes 100% sense. My response to that would be that it is the job of the establishment to control public narrative and promote the idea of Pakistani interests coming first and Pakistani nationalism. It seems we are not effective enough as we should be in this area.

The ability to control the narrative and belief of a population and put your own interests first is very important, all actions the establishment takes must be for the benefit of Pakistan and we shouldn't put us in risky situations like the Afghan refugee thing. If possible I would have tried limiting them to mainly Balochistan and KPK, then if they *had* to enter deeper into the country, have more information on them.

The establishment should be strictly Pakistan first without covert sympathisers of foreign countries, especially hostile ones mentioned less such as Iran and Afghanistan.
 
.
I don`t think this is intelligence failure. If the police stopped the vehicle, they were already forewarned. Had the police not been informed, the taxi would have reached its destination.
But it's definitely a strategic failure. We are again in the civil war type situation with the taliban.
 
.
Please read Sun Tzu’s art of war. Every rational person knows that getting the desired outcome without fighting is the best victory.

It’s why civilized countries try diplomacy before going to war.

Ultimate excellence lies not in winning every battle, the legendary strategist is credited with saying, but in defeating the enemy without ever fighting. Imran Khan was 100% on the mark.
 
.
But it's definitely a strategic failure. We are again in the civil war type situation with the taliban.
This should not be a shocker, there was literally no other outcome now that relative peace had returned to Afghanistan they would switch back to their hostile policies against Pakistan.

There has literally been decades of state propaganda ingrained into them, plus cultural and ethnic hatred since centuries on top.

And the few individuals or groups willing to co-operate with Pakistan can't do it freely as they will lose support and due to opposition from others. Foot soldiers are motivated to fight Pakistan.

The core problem is the same old Afghan problem since 1947.
 
.
What's the need to catch the shells?
Is it to keep them clean for reuse by manufacturer?
They send it back to POF taxilla for refilling.
Also in armed fources there is a strict accountability of firing rounds so they serve as a proof of home much spent Vs how much allotted.
I remember when my father was in service , he was allotted a shotgun by airforce and he kept all spent 12 bore cartridges.
 
. .
Now wait till Feb 1st 2023 for “press conference” about facts we already know 😡
 
. . .
,.,.,.

The TTP threat

Huma Yusuf
December 26, 2022

The TTP’s return to the capital last week should not come as a surprise. The warning signs have been growing in intensity since the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan.

Through political statements, protests and popular movements such as the PTM, the people of KP have been ringing alarm bells, demanding action, and rejecting the group’s potential resurgence. The fact that these calls have gone largely unheeded indicates Pakistan urgently needs to revisit its centre-periphery dynamic.

The centre-periphery model is used to conceptualise networks, hierarchies and power dynamics in fields ranging from economics to philosophy to politics. Centres are where power, money, industry and dynamic possibility are concentrated; in an economic context, goods and capital accumulate in centres before trickling down to peripheries. But across most disciplines, understandings of centres and peripheries are routinely critiqued and re-evaluated.

There is a growing recognition that the centre-periphery model is often flawed, underestimating the contributions, vitality and necessity of so-called peripheries. Most obviously, in a postcolonial context, it is now widely accepted that the peripheries (ie the colonies) were the key centres of wealth generation, the wings that held aloft the centres of imperial power.

Why is this relevant when it comes to the TTP? Because once again, the group is back in news headlines and subject to strong condemnation because its activities have affected the centre. The suicide attack in Islamabad on Friday was terrifying, but not unexpected.

And so here we are, back to the future.

The so-called peripheries have been increasingly subject to the TTP’s brutality for almost two years. The number of civilian and law-enforcement casualties at the hands of the TTP have more than doubled since the Afghan Taliban came to power in August 2021. KP has been the worst hit: the TTP and its affiliates have carried out 148 attacks against the province’s police since the start of this year.

The peripheries have been appealing to the centre to take action. The calls for a counterterrorist response have come in various guises: in the form of PTM’s demands for dignity, justice and the right to be differentiated from militants that truly threaten Pakistan; in the form of Mohsin Dawar’s warnings that negotiations with the TTP were futile, and would only embolden the group; and in the form of mass anti-militancy protests in Swat.

That these fears, opinions, experiences and demands were largely disregarded in both political and security contexts is largely due to the fact that those opposing the TTP in recent years — particularly from the erstwhile tribal areas — are perceived to be tangential, rather than an intrinsic part of the national whole.

As long as problems such as death threats, extortionate demands, and murderous attacks by the TTP were restricted to the peripheries, there was little motivation to act decisively, let alone pre-emptively, among political and military power centres.

And so here we are, back to the future. Earlier this month, the TTP claimed that it now occupies a “vast portion” of the former tribal areas. Unconfirmed reports are also circulating of some Baloch separatist leaders joining hands with the TTP, highlighting again how neglect of the so-called peripheries can lead to unmanageable challenges.

These developments are a throwback to the mid-2000s, when domestic militant groups were able to consolidate, leading Pakistan into its arguably darkest decade.

It does not have to be this way. Pakistan has previously demonstrated the potential to reframe its centre-periphery model. The 18th Constitutional Amendment provided a roadmap for empowering all provinces, undermining policies that might conceptualise any part of the country as peripheral.

And going by media reports, the security establishment this summer did not concede to the TTP’s demand to reverse the Fata merger, indicating little appetite to treat certain parts of Pakistan, and certain Pakistani citizens, as expendable.

But there is a long way to go. In the counterterrorism context, lessons should be learned by ensuring that the revitalised Nacta and future efforts by provincial CT departments are well coordinated, with information access and strategic decision-making flowing across all parts of the country.

More importantly, a top-down, centralised approach should be made subservient to the learnings and preferences of areas most affected by the TTP.

Beyond the security realm, a dramatic reframing of Pakistan’s centre and its peripheries is required, with a greater effort made by key stakeholders to value all parts of the country, and all its citizens, as central.

This approach would tackle the structural drivers — such as unequal access to education, justice, employment, opportunity — that fuel militancy in the first place, and reiterate that all Pakistanis are deserving of security and prosperity.

The writer is a political and integrity risk analyst.
Twitter: @humayusuf

Published in Dawn, December 26th, 2022
 
.

Latest posts

Pakistan Defence Latest Posts

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom