Su-57 Program Cancelled

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

The quote just says they don't need to speed up mass production, not that they are cancelling mass production or anything like that?

12 planes is considered mass productions nowadays. How many F-22 were built? 180. 1 Su-57 is as efficient as 10 Su-27. So planes are not built in the thousands anymore. MiG-21 was built in the thousands. Su-27 was built in the hundreds. Su-57 is built in the dozens.

F-35 and F-22 are not dependent on AWACS to carry out their operations

F-22 and F-35 lack 360 degrees radar coverage like Su-57 has. Su-57 has 4 faced AESA. 1 in front. 1 in back. 1 on left. 1 on right.

I don't believe in stealth. Just F-22's nozzles alone have far bigger RCS than a marble. F-22 has the RCS of a marble? Let's them prove it.

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

12 planes is considered mass productions nowadays. How many F-22 were built? 180. 1 Su-57 is as efficient as 100 Su-27. So planes are not built in the thousands anymore. MiG-21 was built in the thousands. Su-27 was built in the hundreds. Su-57 is built in the dozens.

They built 300+ F-35 already, 12 Su-57 and then stopping shows either the project has problems or they don't have enough money to continue.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

They built 300+ F-35 already, 12 Su-57 and then stopping shows either the project has problems or they don't have enough money to continue.

US air force has 187 F-35. Let's see if they built more than 300. I'd be surprised if they do. It's very expensive. Don't forget Trump increased defense budget by a LOT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_United_States_military_aircraft

Russia can print money to buy planes. Sure, it causes massive inflation, but so what? Russia can delete money supply after massive inflation.

They built 300+ F-35 already, 12 Su-57 and then stopping shows either the project has problems or they don't have enough money to continue.

F-35 is strike fighter. It is same category as F-15E and Su-34. F-35 does not compete with Su-27 and Su-30 and Su-35 and Su-57 which are in the same category as F-15C and F-22. Russia has more than 100 Su-34 and Russia only has a third the population of America so it's not like America has more planes per capita than Russia does.

 

[Persian Gulf 1906]

US air force has 187 F-35. Let's see if they built more than 300. I'd be surprised if they do. It's very expensive. Don't forget Trump increased defense budget by a LOT.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_United_States_military_aircraft

Russia can print money to buy planes. Sure, it causes massive inflation, but so what? Russia can delete money supply after massive inflation.

US has many air forces. They are building for export too and will build thousands of them within a few years.

Russia cannot do that because it doesn't control the reserve currency of the world.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

US has many air forces. They are building for export too and will build thousands of them within a few years.

Russia cannot do that because it doesn't control the reserve currency of the world.

Every sovereign country's central bank can print unlimited money. That's what central banks do.

The US has 184 F-22. Russia has 71 Su-35. Russia has a third the population as the US. 71 is more than a third of 184. So Russia has more planes per capita than the US has.

Not exactly a fan of F-22 and F-35. I'd take Su-35 and Su-34, respectively. Way sleeker and better looking. Let the Americans play with lower RCS. So what? Super powers don't fight each other anymore anyway so no point in lower RCS. They only role F-22, F-35, Su-35, Su-34 have is bomb truck against Qaeda fags.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Personally, I'm not a fan of internal weapons bays. Too complex and eats away at fuel capacity. RAH-66 was canceled in favor of AH-64E. Big countries don't fight each other anymore these days. The only role fighter jets today have is bombing Qaeda. No need for lower RCS. No need for internal weapons bays. I'd take Su-35 over F-22 and Su-34 over F-35 any day. Look better. No internal weapons bays.

 

[LeGenD]

F-22 and F-35 lack 360 degrees radar coverage like Su-57 has. Su-57 has 4 faced AESA. 1 in front. 1 in back. 1 on left. 1 on right.

Both F-22 and F-35 have 'integrated avionics system' in which multiple sensors are fused together to produce 360 degree coverage of potential threats and situational awareness for their pilots respectively.

Watch this video to get an idea:

I don't believe in stealth. Just F-22's nozzles alone have far bigger RCS than a marble. F-22 has the RCS of a marble? Let's them prove it.

Why not?

F-117 - first generation stealthy aircraft - have flown over 1300 sorties in different conflicts over the course of years and struck 1600 targets in them, with a single loss (due to pilot's error). FYI: https://www.militarytimes.com/off-d...-f-117-nighthawks-near-perfect-combat-record/

> 1300 : 1

Actual RCS of F-22 is classified but it is very very low. To give you an idea, F-22 have surprised other aircraft in broad daylight.

B-2 is virtually invisible to radar systems, and F-22 is close.

Heck, pilots of F-35 had to activate their transponders in an exercise for anti-aircraft defenses to see them.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Both F-22 and F-35 have 'integrated avionics system' in which multiple sensors are fused together to produce 360 degree coverage of potential threats and situational awareness for their pilots respectively.

The more complexity, the easier for a breakdown. Best is 4 faced AESA. Problem solved. Each plane cannot assume every other plane is functional and in position.

Why not?

F-117 - first generation stealthy aircraft - have flown over 1300 sorties in different conflicts over the course of years and struck 1600 targets in them, with a single loss (due to pilot's error). FYI: https://www.militarytimes.com/off-d...-f-117-nighthawks-near-perfect-combat-record/

> 1300 : 1

Actual RCS of F-22 is classified but it is very very low. To give you an idea, F-22 have surprised other aircraft in broad daylight.

B-2 is virtually invisible to radar systems, and F-22 is close.

Heck, pilots of F-35 had to activate their transponders in an exercise for anti-aircraft defenses to see them.

That doesn't prove anything. Russia planes flew tens of thousands of sorties in Syria, struck tens of thousands of targets, only 1 plane lost due to accident. Doesn't prove shit.

 

[LeGenD]

The more complexity, the easier for a breakdown. Best is 4 faced AESA. Problem solved. Each plane cannot assume every other plane is functional and in position.

You do not understand the benefits of sensor fusion, it seems. Single sensor is easier to jam! Multiple sensors are much harder to jam. Also, a single F-35/F-22 can draw information from another, when both are operating in the same region - external sensor fusion (impossible to jam and superior situational awareness).

USAF have much larger budget than its Russian counterpart, therefore maintenance is not an issue. Military hardware is also designed to be rugged on average, tolerate high levels of stresses.

That doesn't prove anything. Russia planes flew tens of thousands of sorties in Syria, struck tens of thousands of targets, only 1 plane lost due to accident. Doesn't prove shit.

Russian aircraft are bombing rebels who are seriously lacking in anti-aircraft equipment.

F-117 was extensively utilized to infiltrate conventional defenses of Iraq and Serbia, kill targets of high value and return safely.

Now you understand the difference?

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

F-117 was extensively utilized to infiltrate conventional defenses of Iraq and Serbia, kill targets of high value and return safely.

Now you understand the difference?

Iraq and Serbia had no modern air defense that can threaten even an F-16. Let the Americans try their luck on Gripen or Typhoon or Rafale or J-10 or Su-35 and see what happens. Pffft. Everyone can pick on the defenseless. Don't make them a hero.

You do not understand the benefits of sensor fusion, it seems. Single sensor is easier to jam! Multiple sensors are much harder to jam. Also, a single F-35/F-22 can draw information from another, when both are operating in the same region - external sensor fusion (impossible to jam and superior situational awareness).

USAF have much larger budget than its Russian counterpart, therefore maintenance is not an issue. Military hardware is also designed to be rugged on average, tolerate high levels of stresses.

Every modern jet has sensor fusion.

 

[LeGenD]

Iraq and Serbia had no modern air defense that can threaten even an F-16. Let the Americans try their luck on Typhoon or Rafale or J-10 or Su-35 and see what happens. Pffft. Everyone can pick on the defenseless. Don't make them a hero.

Iraqi air defense was really good in 1991.

"The Iraqi IADS was a composite system which integrated European and Soviet search and acquisition radars, and a range of Soviet and European SAM and AAA systems, all tied together with a French built Kari C3 (Command/Control/Communications) network. While smaller than the now defunct Soviet system in central Europe (Western TVD), the system had a respectable capability and comparable if not higher density of SAM and AAA systems, with considerable redundancy in communications links and hardened C3 facilities."

Details in this link: http://www.ausairpower.net/Analysis-ODS-EW.html

Unfortunately for Iraq, US was a different beast in 1991 than what it used to be in the days of Vietnam War. F-117 and Tomahawk cruise missiles were extensively used to soften Iraqi defenses in 1991 before other aircraft moved in.

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Serbia wasn't lacking in its air defense either. In-fact, Serbian military planners learned from Operation Desert Storm and devised a brilliant strategy to negate NATO in 1999.

The aim of the OAF campaign was to force Serbian forces to stop attacks upon ethnic Albanians and leave Kosovo through the coercive application of air power alone. Air power was to be used, exclusively, to reduce casualties on the NATO side, which made life for the Serbian forces in Kosovo easier as there were no ground troops to worry about. By employing the strategy of withholding military force the Serbs avoided having their air defence and field units being destroyed in the first days of the air campaign. They had absorbed the lessons of Operation Desert Storm, and preserved their assets for the long haul, which was a successful strategy as Serb forces were still firing Surface-to-Air Missiles (SAM) on the last day of Operation Allied Force.[1] Employing passive systems such as electro-optical tracking equipment further enhanced the survivability of IADS components, by not creating an emission signature that NATO defence suppression aircraft could lock on to.[2]

Details in this link: http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-2009-04.html

Every modern jet has sensor fusion.

Your assertion is not correct! Majority have sensor correlation at best.

Top video is just an overview of characteristics of SU-35; no indication of sensor fusion capabilities in it. Bottom video suggest communication and sensor correlation between SU-35.

Take a closer look:

No indication of sensor fusion in there.

Irbis-E is PESA by the way:

The SU-35S will also depend on its sensors. It couples an electronically-scanned array radar with a 2-step electro-hydraulic drive unit, which creates a maximum radar beam deflection angle of 120 degrees. The NIIP Tikhomirov Irbis-E passive phased-array can reportedly detect and tracks up to 30 air targets, simultaneously engaging up to 8. It can also reportedly detect, choose and track up to 4 ground targets, and engage 2. Detection ranges of over 400 km/ 240 miles have been reported for airborne targets, which are the easiest, but resolutions are unspecified. Detecting a 747 passenger jet at 400 km is much easier than detecting a JAS-39 Gripen lightweight fighter, and information about the radar’s resolution would be needed before its real capabilities would be clear.

Source: https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/russias-su-35-super-flanker-mystery-fighter-no-more-04969/

---

Sensors of F-22 and F-35 are electronically fused (i.e. fusion engine) and they provide a fused field of view to the pilots accordingly.

Take a closer look:

Fused information there! You cannot even tell sensors apart from that.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

raqi air defense was really good in 1991.

"The Iraqi IADS was a composite system which integrated European and Soviet search and acquisition radars, and a range of Soviet and European SAM and AAA systems, all tied together with a French built Kari C3 (Command/Control/Communications) network. While smaller than the now defunct Soviet system in central Europe (Western TVD), the system had a respectable capability and comparable if not higher density of SAM and AAA systems, with considerable redundancy in communications links and hardened C3 facilities."

Details in this link: http://www.ausairpower.net/Analysis-ODS-EW.html

Unfortunately for Iraq, US was a different beast in 1991 than what it used to be in the days of Vietnam War. F-117 and Tomahawk cruise missiles were extensively used to soften Iraqi defenses in 1991 before other aircraft moved in.

The Coalition lost a total of 75 aircraft – 52 fixed-wing aircraft and 23 helicopters – during Desert Storm, with 39 fixed-wing aircraft and 5 helicopters lost in combat.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_War_air_campaign#Losses

Iraqi air defense was really good in 1991.
No, they do not sensor fusion. They have sensor correlation at best. Top video is just an overview of characteristics of SU-35; no indication of sensor fusion capabilities in it. Bottom video suggest data sharing and sensor correlation between SU-35.

Take a closer look:

No indication of sensor fusion in there.

Irbis-E is PESA by the way:

The SU-35S will also depend on its sensors. It couples an electronically-scanned array radar with a 2-step electro-hydraulic drive unit, which creates a maximum radar beam deflection angle of 120 degrees. The NIIP Tikhomirov Irbis-E passive phased-array can reportedly detect and tracks up to 30 air targets, simultaneously engaging up to 8. It can also reportedly detect, choose and track up to 4 ground targets, and engage 2. Detection ranges of over 400 km/ 240 miles have been reported for airborne targets, which are the easiest, but resolutions are unspecified. Detecting a 747 passenger jet at 400 km is much easier than detecting a JAS-39 Gripen lightweight fighter, and information about the radar’s resolution would be needed before its real capabilities would be clear.

Source: https://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/russias-su-35-super-flanker-mystery-fighter-no-more-04969/

---

Sensors of F-22 and F-35 are electronically fused (i.e. fusion engine) and they provide a fused field of view to the pilots.

Take a closer look:

Fused information there! You cannot even tell sensors apart from it.

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure all modern jets have sensor fusion. That's how AWACs share data with combat planes. Sensor fusion isn't exactly state of the art. It's been around for decades. Data bus.

UPDATE:

I did a bit of research. We know for sure Su-57 has sensor fusion. As for Su-35 / 30 / 34, I'm sure pretty they all have it. Digital quadruplex fly by wire, PESA / AESA, sensor fusion, these are all standard on modern jets.

Russia’s Su-57, manufactured by the country’s Prospective Aviation Complex of Frontline Aviation, is a stealth, single-seat, twin-engine jet multirole warplane.


The warplane, also known as T-50, is the first aircraft in the Russian military equipped with stealth technology and it is intended to have supermaneuverability with supercruise capability and advanced avionics such as active phased array radar and sensor fusion that autonomously make battlefield calculations to assist the pilot.

https://www.presstv.com/DetailFr/2018/02/24/553479/Syria-Russia-warplane

 

[Ultima Thule]

I'm no expert, but I'm pretty sure all modern jets have sensor fusion. That's how AWACs share data with combat planes. Sensor fusion isn't exactly state of the art. It's been around for decades. Data bus.

But not as complete as it is in 5th gen jets @undertakerwwefan

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

But not as complete as it is in 5th gen jets @undertakerwwefan

Su-57 is fifth generation jet.

Russians are smart. Russians made the first space suit, sent the first satellite to space, sent the first man to space, did the first space walk, sent the first lander to another planet, sent the first remote controlled rover to the moon, sent the first space station to space, sent the first modular space station to space.

Russian computers are second to none. Russian engines are second to none. Russian aircraft are second to none.

 

[Ultima Thule]

Su-57 is fifth generation jet.

Russians are smart. Russians made the first space suit, sent the first satellite to space, sent the first man to space, did the first space walk, sent the first lander to another planet, sent the first remote controlled rover to the moon, sent the first space station to space, sent the first modular space station to space.

Russian computers are second to none. Russian engines are second to none. Russian aircraft are second to none.

But they have not $$$$$$$$$$$$ to develop top notch tech, they have different philosophy of weapon devlopment then their western counterparts @undertakerwwefan

and you are a fan of russian tech i assume but i have to say SU-57 is wrost stealth jet among all 5th gen jets @undertakerwwefan