Su-30MKI & JF-17 Air Fight

[Owais]

I WILL ACCEPT FACTS

but some thing from the article abt RAM



come on be serious what is the credibility of the source it cant be as good as f-35

The source is as credible as BR . I accept that the RAM coating right now, is a dream for PAF but JF17's block II will incorporate low rcs, <1 (May be L-O characteristics if not stealthy) also, the other source I provide you regarding F16 RCS is a valid source.

 

[zombie:-)]

The source is as credible as BR . I accept that the RAM coating right now, is a dream for PAF but JF17's block II will incorporate low rcs, <1 (May be L-O characteristics if not stealthy) also, the other source I provide you regarding F16 RCS is a valid source.

why bring BR here ive never posted any stuff from there
anyways all the best for your plane

 

[beckham]

India exercised its Su-30MKIs against the Royal Air Force's Tornado ADVs in October 2006. This was the first large-scale bilateral aerial exercise with any foreign air force during which the IAF used its Su-30MKIs extensively. This exercise was also the first in 43 years with the RAF. During the exercise, RAF's Air Chief Marshall, Glenn Torpy, was given permission by the IAF to fly the MKI. RAF's Air-Vice Marshall, Christopher Harper, praised the MKI's dogfight ability, calling it "absolutely masterful".
In July 2007, the Indian Air Force fielded the MKI during the Indra-Dhanush exercise with Royal Air Force's Eurofighter Typhoon. This was the first time that the two jets had taken part in such a exercise. The IAF did not allow their pilots to use the radar of the MKIs during the exercise so as to protect the highly-classified N011M Bars.During the exercise, the RAF pilots candidly admitted that the Su-30MKI displayed maneuvering superior to that of the Typhoon.
An earlier variant of the Su-30MKI, the MK, took part in war games with the United States Air Force (USAF) during Cope-India 04, where USAF F-15 Eagles were pitted against Indian Air Force Su-30MKs, Mirage 2000s, MiG-29s and elderly MiG-21. The results have been widely publicized, with the Indians winning "90% of the mock combat missions".[29] It must be noted that during the exercise, the USAF fighter jets did not exploit their beyond visual range offensive capabilities, unlike those of the IAF. In July 2008, the IAF sent 6 Su-30MKIs and 2 aerial-refueling tankers, the Il-78MKI, to participate in the Red Flag exercise.

 

[jakesmith]

Hi Friends,
This is JAke Smith Frm NY....
Its Great Forum topic I like it ....
Thanks!

 

[mean_bird]

India exercised its Su-30MKIs against the Royal Air Force's Tornado ADVs in October 2006. This was the first large-scale bilateral aerial exercise with any foreign air force during which the IAF used its Su-30MKIs extensively. This exercise was also the first in 43 years with the RAF. During the exercise, RAF's Air Chief Marshall, Glenn Torpy, was given permission by the IAF to fly the MKI. RAF's Air-Vice Marshall, Christopher Harper, praised the MKI's dogfight ability, calling it "absolutely masterful".
In July 2007, the Indian Air Force fielded the MKI during the Indra-Dhanush exercise with Royal Air Force's Eurofighter Typhoon. This was the first time that the two jets had taken part in such a exercise. The IAF did not allow their pilots to use the radar of the MKIs during the exercise so as to protect the highly-classified N011M Bars.During the exercise, the RAF pilots candidly admitted that the Su-30MKI displayed maneuvering superior to that of the Typhoon.
An earlier variant of the Su-30MKI, the MK, took part in war games with the United States Air Force (USAF) during Cope-India 04, where USAF F-15 Eagles were pitted against Indian Air Force Su-30MKs, Mirage 2000s, MiG-29s and elderly MiG-21. The results have been widely publicized, with the Indians winning "90% of the mock combat missions".[29] It must be noted that during the exercise, the USAF fighter jets did not exploit their beyond visual range offensive capabilities, unlike those of the IAF. In July 2008, the IAF sent 6 Su-30MKIs and 2 aerial-refueling tankers, the Il-78MKI, to participate in the Red Flag exercise.

And the result??

It got repeatedly hammered by the F-15 and F-16 to the point the indians asked to quit the one-to-one dog fighting to move to something else.

 

[zombie:-)]

And the result??

It got repeatedly hammered by the F-15 and F-16 to the point the indians asked to quit the one-to-one dog fighting to move to something else.

guys why do you want to revive skeletons from the graveyard let it go

waiting for future exercises what happened to paf and redflag any news ??

 

[hj786]

During the exercise, the RAF pilots candidly admitted that the Su-30MKI displayed maneuvering superior to that of the Typhoon.

Until you show us a source, you type nothing but BS. If no source is provided in a week, can somebody please ban this troll?

If that was true, it would be all over the western forums - instead, they mock the way that trolls generate hype for mki. It is a good aeroplane, but it is also an over-hyped flanker, not the F-35-killing stealth fighter that trolls will have us believe. J-10s flown by Chinese test pilots beat J-11s hands down, both without TVC and the J-11s were even being flown by China's elite fighter pilots (according to the Chinese forums who translate Chinese sources).

Edit: Mr Beckham was right (I doubt they said mki displayed "superior" manoeuvring, though), I was wrong.

 

[Zob]

zombie please try and understand that going to ED FLAG doesn't mean that u have been invited to venture into space....hel u pay and u go....no pay no go...so i mean its not like INDIA got selected from all the countries in the world....please RED FLAG doesn't signify a leap into space so just relax u guys r just happy about being american's new ho...

 

[Keysersoze]

Hi Friends,
This is JAke Smith Frm NY....
Its Great Forum topic I like it ....
Thanks!

No you are from India you idiot, thanks for dropping by.....

 

[godsavetheworld]

And the result??

It got repeatedly hammered by the F-15 and F-16 to the point the indians asked to quit the one-to-one dog fighting to move to something else.

Okay a lot of nationalistic talk here.

Firstly let me begin by saying the video was that of an American aggresor pilot candidly taking to his stuents and not a "debreifing" session. It was more of morale boosting session for his trainee pilots. So don't take it as "only the truth and nothing but the truth".

All the handicaps that the IAF had imposed on itself during Red Flag aside, in a real world condition, the MKI will be detecting and ID'ing contacts a long way out[/B]. there won't be any "is the contact hostile or friendly" chatter when the Bars is operating at full tilt and no fratricides either..and IAF Phalcons are not that far away frm being operational, so that takes away the added edge that Western fighters always enjoyed.

Next, MKI's were never "shot" down, but had to be disembarked due to a lot of "friendly fire".

I know as a fact now that the all the pilots IAF sent were "rookies" having an experience of only 1-2 year with the MKI. Why? Because the airforce wanted the rookies to face the challlenge so that they could see the road ahead and what they need to do as the future of IAF. This is not the case when squadrons are formed.

Any guy who has a decent idea about wht combat aviation is will tell you that MKI's can easily over come F-15/16 just with its guns and a conventional radar. And that fact that MKI has a 22 deg/s turn ratio compared to F-15's mere 16 deg/s proves this fact altogether. Any MKI pilot can get hold of an F-15 with simple cobra maneuver.

But no, if you all are so intent on bringing in the "nationalistic" aspect to an F-15 vs MKI discussion, then it is all blabber for me.

 

[mean_bird]

Okay a lot of nationalistic talk here.

Firstly let me begin by saying the video was that of an American aggresor pilot candidly taking to his stuents and not a "debreifing" session. It was more of morale boosting session for his trainee pilots. So don't take it as "only the truth and nothing but the truth".

All the handicaps that the IAF had imposed on itself during Red Flag aside, in a real world condition, the MKI will be detecting and ID'ing contacts a long way out[/B]. there won't be any "is the contact hostile or friendly" chatter when the Bars is operating at full tilt and no fratricides either..and IAF Phalcons are not that far away frm being operational, so that takes away the added edge that Western fighters always enjoyed.

Next, MKI's were never "shot" down, but had to be disembarked due to a lot of "friendly fire".

I know as a fact now that the all the pilots IAF sent were "rookies" having an experience of only 1-2 year with the MKI. Why? Because the airforce wanted the rookies to face the challlenge so that they could see the road ahead and what they need to do as the future of IAF. This is not the case when squadrons are formed.

Any guy who has a decent idea about wht combat aviation is will tell you that MKI's can easily over come F-15/16 just with its guns and a conventional radar. And that fact that MKI has a 22 deg/s turn ratio compared to F-15's mere 16 deg/s proves this fact altogether. Any MKI pilot can get hold of an F-15 with simple cobra maneuver.

But no, if you all are so intent on bringing in the "nationalistic" aspect to an F-15 vs MKI discussion, then it is all blabber for me.

Mind giving part of this lecture to your fellow countryman who is boasting the result of the war-games and choose to report only the results that favors him. I just complemented the information with the results of Red Flag.

Also, you are wrong that no MKI was shot down except for friendly fire. The F-15 pilot clearly states that "you just drill his brains out".

Not to undermine the the capabilities of IAF or the Su-30, but here's what the USAF had to say about Cope India:

"Two major factors stand out: None of the six 3rd Wing F-15Cs was equipped with the newest long-range, active electronically scanned array (AESA) radars. These Raytheon APG-63(V)2 radars were designed to find small and stealthy targets. At India's request, the U.S. agreed to mock combat at 3-to-1 odds and without the use of simulated long-range, radar-guided AIM-120 Amraams that even the odds with beyond-visual-range kills."

"The U.S. pilots used no active missiles, and the AIM-120 Amraam capability was limited to a 20-naut.-mi. range while keeping the target illuminated when attacking and 18 naut. mi. when defending, as were all the missiles in the exercise."


Having said that, IAF does seem to have improved their tactics as compared to past and the Su-30 is by no means a rubbish plane. But what will be the outcome with a "real world fight" with a latest block F-16 or F-15, is really debatable.

 

[Munir]

Here you have a plane with huge RCS and huge radar. Even if it detects you... It will not make it certain that it will use its bvr's good enough. And if someone detects you you can surely add that you know where he is. It will surely have its butt screwed when it enters WVR. The Indians can turn and burn but in real war there is not the same arena as in their orchestrated trainings. If the Indians can do perfect then they would have overrun Pakistan in 1947. Even in the 65 and 71 wars they did not move beyind that. One or thousand MKI's will not make them a winner. With getting nukers, better CM and Pakistani build weapons the Indians are purely dressing up the battlefield. India asked Israel for lgb to counter a few hero's during Kargill. Now they think with the imported MKI with parts from everywhere (and oops somethign made in India) the can pull the strings?

The war will be short. No way they can mass that many people on the borders. If it stays conventional then this time the Indians will be hit hard. If it moves beyond conventional the Indians and the rest of the world can forget Kyoto.

 

[hj786]

Okay a lot of nationalistic talk here.

Yes, and you are one of the sources.

Any guy who has a decent idea about wht combat aviation is will tell you that MKI's can easily over come F-15/16 just with its guns and a conventional radar.

This just proves you know nothing about "combat aviation". You're just another troll.

And that fact that MKI has a 22 deg/s turn ratio compared to F-15's mere 16 deg/s proves this fact altogether.

At what altitude?
What speed?
What weapons load?
According to the experts on Western forums, at high altitude and high speed, F-15 has a higher turn rate than mki.

Any MKI pilot can get hold of an F-15 with simple cobra maneuver.

LOL, this just proves you know NOTHING about combat aviation. Any cobra maneuvers will ensure your mki gets killed. All experts agree that it has little to no combat value whatsoever. Just another airshow trick to make fanboy trolls like you shout "woooow, it is superior to everything else!"

But no, if you all are so intent on bringing in the "nationalistic" aspect to an F-15 vs MKI discussion, then it is all blabber for me.

Your posts are all blabber for us, troll. Take YOUR nationalistic aspect somewhere else.

 

[Munir]

India exercised its Su-30MKIs against the Royal Air Force's Tornado ADVs in October 2006. This was the first large-scale bilateral aerial exercise with any foreign air force during which the IAF used its Su-30MKIs extensively. This exercise was also the first in 43 years with the RAF. During the exercise, RAF's Air Chief Marshall, Glenn Torpy, was given permission by the IAF to fly the MKI. RAF's Air-Vice Marshall, Christopher Harper, praised the MKI's dogfight ability, calling it "absolutely masterful".
In July 2007, the Indian Air Force fielded the MKI during the Indra-Dhanush exercise with Royal Air Force's Eurofighter Typhoon. This was the first time that the two jets had taken part in such a exercise. The IAF did not allow their pilots to use the radar of the MKIs during the exercise so as to protect the highly-classified N011M Bars.During the exercise, the RAF pilots candidly admitted that the Su-30MKI displayed maneuvering superior to that of the Typhoon.
An earlier variant of the Su-30MKI, the MK, took part in war games with the United States Air Force (USAF) during Cope-India 04, where USAF F-15 Eagles were pitted against Indian Air Force Su-30MKs, Mirage 2000s, MiG-29s and elderly MiG-21. The results have been widely publicized, with the Indians winning "90&#37; of the mock combat missions".[29] It must be noted that during the exercise, the USAF fighter jets did not exploit their beyond visual range offensive capabilities, unlike those of the IAF. In July 2008, the IAF sent 6 Su-30MKIs and 2 aerial-refueling tankers, the Il-78MKI, to participate in the Red Flag exercise.

The Indians send MKI and not K to Red Flag... Only a2g... And indeed the K against F15's but f15's with no weapons and radar...

And how well can you say the reality if a plane is not allowed to use radar? It is te usual courtesy of the west to praise others. And it is the usual courtesy of the Indians to trash others...

 

[Shiny Capstar]

Until you show us a source, you type nothing but BS. If no source is provided in a week, can somebody please ban this troll?

If that was true, it would be all over the western forums - instead, they mock the way that trolls generate hype for mki. It is a good aeroplane, but it is also an over-hyped flanker, not the F-35-killing stealth fighter that trolls will have us believe. J-10s flown by Chinese test pilots beat J-11s hands down, both without TVC and the J-11s were even being flown by China's elite fighter pilots (according to the Chinese forums who translate Chinese sources).

Its true, the RAF pilots admited that the Su-30MKI was more manoeuvrable. The Indian pilots also were impressed by the Eurofighter's manoeuvrability.

Typhoon vs. SU-30MKI: The 2007 Indra Dhanush Exercise

What is left out is that the extra manoeuvrability counted for pretty much squat against HMS and high off-boresight missiles. I don't know if LOAL capability was factored in.