Su-30MK2 vs. F-18 Super Hornet: What is the best?

[lcloo]

Although the Serbian airforce and former Iraqi airforce may not be substantial, we do see that the side that detected the opponent first and shoot first win. Also the tactic employ may decide the out-come, if one side has better detection power via AEWAC or even ground radar, then thay have absolute advantage as in Serbian and Iraqi war shown.

The biggest disadvantage of SU-30MK is the RCS which mean they are more likely to get detected before they found FA-18E/F if both jets have radar of similar detection capability. In major war campaigns, my 2 cents are BVR battles is the most likely scenario, and I would say FA-18 E/F plus AEWAC wins even if SU-30MK2 has AEWAC in support.

In isolated conflicts where air battles between one side who is on CAP, and need to acquire visual positive ID, and the intruder jet which is challenging for a fight, short range dog fight will happen and the vital factor would be pilot's experience and skill. US pilots have the upper hands due to their great exposure to war. Pilots of other nationalities will have to depend on their personal skill and experience, regardless of whether they fly SU-30 MK2 of FA-18E/F. A good example is the fights between F-86 and MIG-15 during Korean war, both machines are considered as having almost same capabilities but with different out-come.

 

[amalakas]

I refer again to the man-avionics-radar-missile interface. The Hornet isn't shaped like an F-15 or F-16 (obviously) but the overall weapons system, the radar, its signal, PRF, frequency, combined with the proven performance of the AIM-9 and AIM-120, imply that an AIM-120 shot from an F-18 will be as effective as an AIM-120 shot from an F-15. Same with the AIM-9. I'm looking at it as a weapons system, not as an individual platform.

technically speaking, during both conficts, (serbia, Iraq), the allied coverage of the skies was so overwelmng and one sided, that the missiles that were fired from allied planes against those MiG 29s and Mirages etc, could have been fired from C-130s for that matter, the iraqi/serbian planes were export versions with extremely limited capability, flown by pilots nowhere near western or even russian for that matter training, flying blind, mute and deaf, against a force with unprecedented situational awareness.

Those guys were burned the minute they showed up on radar, they had no idea they were being stalked and targeted .... a cesna could have fired those missiles and gotten a hit.. that was not an engagement, it was a turkey shoot...

so the F18 may be a fantastic platform, but how will it fair when the might of Nato combined assets is not backing it up ?

 

[ViXuyen]

Although the Serbian airforce and former Iraqi airforce may not be substantial, we do see that the side that detected the opponent first and shoot first win. Also the tactic employ may decide the out-come, if one side has better detection power via AEWAC or even ground radar, then thay have absolute advantage as in Serbian and Iraqi war shown.

The biggest disadvantage of SU-30MK is the RCS which mean they are more likely to get detected before they found FA-18E/F if both jets have radar of similar detection capability. In major war campaigns, my 2 cents are BVR battles is the most likely scenario, and I would say FA-18 E/F plus AEWAC wins even if SU-30MK2 has AEWAC in support.

You're assuming that the F-18 see the SU-30 first and fires the missiles at the SU-30 before the SU-30 can detect the F-18; the last time that I check, the F-18 is not a stealth aircraft nor does it have the A2A missiles that can shoot the Su-30 before it got detected by the su-30

As for the Iraq war, I have said this before, it was a war of 1500 domestic version of Allied aircrafts mostly 4th generation against 0 Iraqi 4th generation aircrafts. Let's fact some fact: the Iraq war was not a war that the Allied airforce faced a domestic version of 1500 Mig31,Mig29 or Su27 here. Same thing with Serbia.

 

[lcloo]

You're assuming that the F-18 see the SU-30 first and fires the missiles at the SU-30 before the SU-30 can detect the F-18; the last time that I check, the F-18 is not a stealth aircraft nor does it have the A2A missiles that can shoot the Su-30 before it got detected by the su-30

As for the Iraq war, I have said this before, it was a war of 1500 domestic version of Allied aircrafts mostly 4th generation against 0 Iraqi 4th generation aircrafts. Let's fact some fact: the Iraq war was not a war that the Allied airforce faced a domestic version of 1500 Mig31,Mig29 or Su27 here. Same thing with Serbia.

Well, until there is a real confrontation between the 2 jets, we are all assuming, arn't we? Now if SU-30MK RCS is 4 times larger than FA-18, and they have similar detection range and power, who would be spotted first? Also, what I mentioned was the in BVR situation if detection was done by radar of AWAC, the accomponied fighter with better AWAC (ie. avionics) and tactics employed should win.

 

[ViXuyen]

Well, until there is a real confrontation between the 2 jets, we are all assuming, arn't we? Now if SU-30MK RCS is 4 times larger than FA-18, and they have similar detection range and power, who would be spotted first? Also, what I mentioned was the in BVR situation if detection was done by radar of AWAC, the accomponied fighter with better AWAC (ie. avionics) and tactics employed should win.

Assuming that the F-18 fighting with AWAC and the SU-30 just by itself. The F-18 can spot the Su-30 first but then what? Does the F-18 have the missiles at such range that can fire the first shot before the Su-30 detect the F-18? No. So there is no such guarantee that the fight between 4th-4.5 gen fighters that such and such fighter should win considering none has the capability to fire its first shot.

 

[Chogy]

technically speaking, during both conficts, (serbia, Iraq), the allied coverage of the skies was so overwelmng and one sided, that the missiles that were fired from allied planes against those MiG 29s and Mirages etc, could have been fired from C-130s for that matter

Does any of what you said negate at all the proven lethality of the AIM-7M, AIM-120, AIM-9L/M? We have seen in many modern air battles that these weapons simply work when it gets down and dirty. Regardless of how "overwhelming" the numbers, you'd think that at least a FEW NATO aircraft would have been shot down air to air.

It's like an army of 1,000 firing against an army of 100 across a field with small arms. The large army will win, but the small army should STILL have taken a few with them. But in these air wars, they didn't. The sole exception was an F/A-18 shot down by an Iraqi MiG-25 in Desert Storm.

For a long-ranged AAM to work, a LOT has to go right in a vicious EM environment. To date, we know the Hornet's systems work; we don't have data on the Sukhoi. Maybe it'll dominate, but I have to go with what is demonstrated effective.

 

[S-A-B-E-R->]

this is what i think abt VS threads

plz dont be offended but vs discussions r very childish

 

[amalakas]

Does any of what you said negate at all the proven lethality of the AIM-7M, AIM-120, AIM-9L/M? We have seen in many modern air battles that these weapons simply work when it gets down and dirty. Regardless of how "overwhelming" the numbers, you'd think that at least a FEW NATO aircraft would have been shot down air to air.

It's like an army of 1,000 firing against an army of 100 across a field with small arms. The large army will win, but the small army should STILL have taken a few with them. But in these air wars, they didn't. The sole exception was an F/A-18 shot down by an Iraqi MiG-25 in Desert Storm.

For a long-ranged AAM to work, a LOT has to go right in a vicious EM environment. To date, we know the Hornet's systems work; we don't have data on the Sukhoi. Maybe it'll dominate, but I have to go with what is demonstrated effective.

yes 100 men should still kill some of the 1000 men, because they know they are there...

in most cases, the airborne targets were picked up by AWACS and fighters were directed there on optimum vectors and had clean shots without the other guy ever knowing they were being targeted.

Yes that does not negate the fact that the radar-missile combination can hit the target.. I'm just saying it'be good for some conclusions, if the target knew the missile was coming so it could take some evasive action...

 

[localoca]

But this plane is SO OLD...

 

[Thomas]

Though not substantial, there was Vietnam, against Vietnamese Air Force with Soviet/Chinese SAMs/AAA and Chinese SAM/AA crews.

The end result?

Aircraft losses of the Vietnam War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

3000 fixed wing aircraft and 5000 helicopters downed.

The resultant humiliation forced the USAF to retire the F-105 and develop 3rd gen planes.

The talk was about fighter v. fighter not AAA and SAM. The Israeli's in 1982 had probably the best success flying U.S. jets. Shooting down upwards of 90 Syrian fighters with 0 losses in dogfights.

 

[misterme2]

are you insane? indonesia wants to conquer australia?!

Lol they need a reason to bolster their BS forces..

 

[misterme2]

This tread is stupid..first of we should be comparing the F 18 to the current choices in the MMRCA competition....not Su 30 MK which is already in the INdian Airforce

 

[Akasa]

STOP POSTING THESE VERSUS THREADS BECAUSE IT DEPENDS ON THE PILOT, DAMMIT

 

[Harisudan]

But i don't think Indians are that big a fools to make Su30MKI a back bone of their fighter squdrons which can be easily detected by the old F16 PAF is having..More over they are Projecting their airforce considering their chines threat and not PAF...If the fact is so obvious that Su30MKI can be shot down easily shot down because of its huge RCS then why do they upgrade it with more and more goodies..Adding stuffs to the same Air frame doesn't make it good or stealthy right...So my hunch is that it has got something which amazes IAF..So the logic is that Su30MkI is perfectly more than a match for anything our enemies put up in the air atleat for the next 5 to 6 years..

 

[Harisudan]

Guys please tell me how to start a thread...