You said "those brutal invasions of the subcontinent have not been forgotten and they are still an open wound". Your words, not mine.
Read my post#501.
Those who forget their history are condemned to repeat it.
We won't forget. Just so that it won't repeat.
The barbarians are still at the gates (the Gazwa-Ul-Hind brigade) but they won't dare if we are ready for them.
You seem to be consumed by centuries old hate, jumping from one Muslim crime to another in this thread. All the while ignoring similar crimes by Hindus and others throughout India's history.
I knew this was coming. I preempted it already. Long back.
Refer to my post#388.
But in your warped mind, that Islamic invaders' brutality was justified by what happened to Buddhism in the region?
So would the sack of Baghdad by Halaku Khan and murder of millions of Muslims by Mongols be justified by the internecine or inter sect warfare between Arabs as per your warped logic?
Our own infighting doesn't give a license to perpetrate genocides and rapine here an more than Iran Iraq war gave a license to USA to kill Iraqis or Taliban brutalities gave it to others to kill Afghans.
From your own post #488
Negative views of Muslims were also strong in several Asian countries: Half or more of the Japanese, Indians, Chinese and South Koreans surveyed said they had negative impressions of Muslims.
More than half of Indians hold negative views about Muslims?
You can guess why Indians would do that. History as well as the terrorism coming from your country and the partition violence would be some of those reasons.
The real question you should ask is why "Half or more of the Japanese, Chinese and South Koreans surveyed said they had negative impressions of Muslims".
BTW, I am still waiting for your justification to this insinuation.
what has India done that would equate to holding "India's -- indeed all -- Muslims hostage to the past"?
This thread is about Israel and what India does with Israel.
Everybody wants to help the Palestinians; that is a given.
Agree.
You go on and on about how Pakistan should return land and properties to the refugees of 1947 while ignoring what happened to Muslims who had to leave India. Your anti-Muslim filter prevents you from acknowledging that Muslims suffered just as much at the hands of fanatical Hindus and Sikhs in 1947.
I am not anti-Muslim but I don't care when people like you apply this label. I have seen through it long back.
Yes, atrocities happened on both sides. In your case, it was total. Almost complete ethnic cleansing. In India's case, it was on a much smaller scale and the vast majority of Muslims remained in India and enjoyed full legal and constitutions rights.
I thought it was clear enough. Why can't you see the facts?
Legal rights on paper mean squat when the majority hold prejudicial attitudes towards them.
That is what you would like to think. Given the need to justify the TNT.
There are problems but not like what you would like to think based on very selected knowledge and interpretation that most of you display.
BTW, you guys don't even feel the need to provide them legal rights. So don't you think you are not a great position to question others?
Spare me that canard. Most of the Hindus left in 1947. Most of the rest remain and are doing just fine, despite media sensationalism.
We haven't had situations where the police and authorities used census data to round up and hunt down minorities and chop them up with swords, like your fanatical mobs did in 1984 and 2002.
I am sure you are taught that they left voluntarily and left their all behind in peace. Unlike the Palestinians?
How symbolic that you guys used the same techniques as the Nazis during KrystalNacht.
LOl. I see your love for India again.
Just pointing out that there's plenty of culpability to go around.
But it is you who is acting sanctimonious here!
You use this thread to jump from one anti-Pakistan or anti-Muslim rant to another, as a supposed justification of what the Israelis are doing.
No need for pretensions when dealing with someone who excuses ethnic cleansing because he still has "open wounds" from centuries ago. You seem unable to discuss anything without plunging into an anti-Islam or anti-Pakistan rant.
I don't feel the need to justify what Israel is doing. I am not doing that either.
If you had not called the relationship as
anti-Islam, all this debate would be unnecessary.
The facts are coming as the debate is evolving. Be open to how the debate evolves rather than labeling me. Not that I care!
No denial. I have always maintained that these things are off-topic and should be discussed in their own thread.
I have consistently tried to resist your attempts at diversion.
Not very consistent!
BTW, all those diversions were very much replies to the points you raised when you justified your insinuations. They were very much "on-topic" in that sense, just uncomfortable and therefore "Islamophobic".
You do.
Every time I point out an Israeli situation, you come back with unrelated crimes by some Muslims somewhere else on the planet sometime in history.
It's exactly analogous to discussing apartheid with someone who constantly veers off into the bloody history of African tribes elsewhere, all because his great grandfather was mugged by a black guy once.
I would say that this is a misinterpretation by you. You claim superior treatment of minorities by Pakistan and Islamic countries, don't you?
Where did I say that? I have always maintained that everyone has skeletons in the closet.
You really want me to dig it. I have seen in numerous times. Only you lower the standard significantly. Like you were satisfied in this very thread that "at least, minorities are not packed off to ghettos in Islamic countries"!
Certainly. I am talking right now, not in the past.
Everyone has blood on their hands; that does not justify inaction now.
Other than Israel and Darfur, who else is holding millions of refugees hostage to their religion or ethnicity?
You suggested a closure by the Israelis for what they have done. When I suggested something similar for India, you accused me of "Islamophobia". Despite that there was far more brutality in India by the invaders.
BTW, I am not suggesting inaction. Darfur is the current one, there have been others earlier. I don't want to get into it unless challenged.
Read again. I already said they are rightly condemned and isolated.
Yes, would you still accuse China of aiding in that? Yes or No?
No pretensions. I do not justify present-day evil by excusing it because someone, somewhere unrelated to the victims may have committed similar crimes.
Please understand that I am not excusing anything. I have said that many times and it is getting repetitive.
Already did. Absoluely on both counts.
I didn't see you condemning China. May be you can show me that post. Or the threads where you were as vociferous.
And nobody's excusing it; the regime should be held accountable.
Good to know.
Different scenario entirely. The India-Pakistan split was mutually agreed and both countries were responsible for what happened. The creation of Israel was a unilateral decision made by force against the wishes of at least half the people actually living on that land.
Again, I don't want to get into the history of this too much because that is not directly related.
Still, UN decided to create the country and many Arabs sought to oppose it by force.
They lost the civil war and military war and have to accept the consequences of forcing that war.
You claimed it, not I. Show me where I said it.
You agreed to it. With much joy.
I still believe that. I think India gets far more from this relationship than India does.
I think you meant "India gets far more from this relationship than Israel does".
I would excuse your thinking so. But still it is to India's interest then and you are opposing it just because you are an envious Pakistani.
Why shouldn't I dismiss all your concerns?
India trains with the IDF in counter-terrorism. The same IDF is then mobilized against Palestinians, and not all their activities are legit.
They don't need India's help for dealing with civilians or even all the combined Arab armies!
That is why!
