Strength of alliance between India-Isreal

[Vinod2070]

this is so pathetic at so many ways..
india licking jewish for so long..
i just dont understand why a 1.4b populated country wants such good relation with a 7m populated state..
why not have these relation with african countries?
its just showing how pathetic indian goverment is.
and all the followers on this website.

Why does Turkey have relations with Israel?

One word answer is, mutual interests.

Relations with Africans are not mutually exclusive to relations with Israel, not even with Arab states are exclusive to relations with Israel.

 

[Vinod2070]

I don't know, if Develerpeo says that there is some sort of emotional connection to the Palestinian people, then I see no reason to doubt him.

Just as I would feel bad if I saw overseas Chinese communities being attacked (in South East Asia for example)... I would imagine that Muslims would also, feel a similar sort of brotherhood to each other.

Or perhaps empathize with them to a greater degree.

Yes. But would you start saying that everyone who has relations with Malaysia or Indonesia is "anti-Han"?

 

[Chinese-Dragon]

Yes. But would you start saying that everyone who has relations with Malaysia or Indonesia is "anti-Han"?

Personally, no. I hold Malaysia and Indonesia in high esteem.

There are some Chinese people though.... who hold a different view, due to the past history of anti-Chinese riots in South East Asia.

I wouldn't consider any country to be anti-Han though. To me, China is more about a shared civilization, rather than a shared ethnicity. Perhaps a better phrase, would be anti-Chinese, instead of anti-Han.

 

[Vinod2070]

Personally, no. I hold Malaysia and Indonesia in high esteem.

There are some Chinese people though.... who hold a different view, due to the past history of anti-Chinese riots in South East Asia.

I wouldn't consider any country to be anti-Han though. To me, China is more about a shared civilization rather than a shared ethnicity.

Yes. The whole 30 pages of debate has been because someone claimed that India is joining an "anti Islam" alliance by having ties with Israel. And all the mental gymnastics and theatrics ensued after that.

The same person started acting funny in claiming that other nations also having relations with Israel somehow had deeper, more complex reasons for doing so but not India, which was only being anti Pakistan and so anti Islam.

There is a little more, but this is the gyst of it.

 

[Developereo]

Developereo, i`ve read what you wrote(some of it) and i`d like to say to you that i love you!
I really do i`m not being cynical, you say you hate Israelis and as an Israeli i tell you that you are my inspiration. So i can`t hate you for being you, instead i hope you continue being you. Your hatred makes our bond with India grow ever stronger.

Even the worst criminal will always find allies. It doesn't mean the criminal is right or justified.
As for my view on Israel, look at the bottom of this post...

I find your logic very amusing. If we go by your logic, no nation on the planet should do any sort of business or interaction with any Muslim state, Ever...

Just parroting Islamophobic propaganda from your Indian friends will not cut mustard. Many countries have committed crimes, but Israel stands in a league all its own. Again, world opinion agrees with me.

Okay, I'm disregarding the "brief history" part as it really doesn't relate to the topic at hand.

It is entirely on topic -- to explain why Israel deserves the kind of treatment advocated.

And we definitely aren't being apologetic about having a diplomatic relationship with Israel.

I don't expect you to be.
You have rationalized it away by donating money to Palestinians. Oh my...

Thank God people didn't have that attitude towards the Nazis or apartheid regimes.

Developereo,

I read most of the posts. I don't understand what you are trying to say. Can you summarize it please?

BTW keep in mind that english is my second language.

Thanks!

My earlier post #415 summarizes it:

The basic premise is very straightforward.

When the Nazis did their Holocaust, the principled approach was to defeat the Nazis, not "We will work with the Nazis, but also donate money to Jewish charities".

When South Africa had apartheid, the principled approach was to boycott the apartheid regime, not "We will work with the South African government, but also donate money to black charities".

When Israel ethnically cleanses Palestinians, the principled approach is to boycott the Israelis, not "We will work with the Israelis, but also donate money to Palestinian charities".

Do you ask your Chinese brethren the same question?

I don't need to becasue I know the answer. Chinese-Dragon partially answered it.
The Chinese know that sometimes you have to make a pact with the devil.

Yes, you despise them. Just say so.

My view is shared by most of the world (see below).

We chose not to despise them. We want a solution that alleviates the suffering pf Palestinians.

No, you chose to sell your soul. And you are rationalizing it by giving blood money to the Palestinians.

We need to look forward for solutions. For historical injustices, one can either take revenge that will make the whole world go blind or one can move on.

Yes, we saw such examples of your humanitarian view in Sikkim and support for LTTE.

The map shared earlier shows that much of the world doesn't agree with your interpretation. Just leave it at that.

Bullcrap. All it shows is that a majority of governments pay lip service to Israel so as not to appear anti-semitic.

Here's the reality of how the world (as in people) see Israel:

Israel and Iran Share Most Negative Ratings in Global Poll - World Public Opinion

Israel is viewed quite negatively in the world, possibly because the poll was conducted less than six months following the Israel/Hezbollah war in Lebanon. On average, 56 percent have a mainly negative view of the country, and just 17 percent have a positive view, the least positive rating for any country evaluated. In 23 countries the most common view is negative, with only two leaning towards a positive view and two divided.

Unsurprisingly, the most negative views of Israel are found in the predominantly Muslim countries in the Middle East, with very large majorities in Lebanon (85%), Egypt (78%), Turkey (76%), and the UAE (73%) having negative views.

Large majorities also have negative views in Europe, including Germany (77%), Greece (68%) and France (66%). Indonesia (71%), Australia (68%) and South Korea (62%) are the most negative countries in the Asia/Pacific region. Brazilians (72%) are the most negative in Latin America.

The two countries that tend to view Israel positively do so in modest numbers. Forty-five percent of Nigerians and 41 percent of Americans have positive views of Israel's influence in the world, while nearly one-third in each country has negative views. The Kenyan and Indian populations have divided views of Israel.

 

[Developereo]

National interests is not a carte blanche to sell your soul. Sometimes there are extentuating circumstances, as with China and Turkey, or plain old bribery, as with Egypt, but when countries have a choice, many of them give thought to principles of human rights.

Most countries boycotted the apartheid regime in South Africa, even though it could have proved economically beneficial. Ironically, their largest arms supplier during the apartheid era was none other than Israel. Birds of a feather...

None other than Nelson Mandela equated Israel with the apartheid regime in South Africa.

All the apologist rhetoric and rationaling will not change the reality of what Israel represents.

 

[Vinod2070]

My view is shared by most of the world (see below).

So, do you hate Iran as passionately as well?

It also says this:

Israel is viewed quite negatively in the world, possibly because the poll was conducted less than six months following the Israel/Hezbollah war in Lebanon.

No, you chose to sell your soul. And you are rationalizing it by giving blood money to the Palestinians.

Your interpretation, a quite self serving one and that you selectively apply as has been shown many times here.

We don't buy it. Just move on.

BTW, you don't even see the need to rationalize far bigger crimes. You just dismiss them as "off topic".

Yes, we saw such examples of your humanitarian view in Sikkim and support for LTTE.

May be it made sense for you.

Bullcrap. All it shows is that a majority of governments pay lip service to Israel so as not to appear anti-semitic.

Here's the reality of how the world (as in people) see Israel:

Israel and Iran Share Most Negative Ratings in Global Poll - World Public Opinion

Israel is viewed quite negatively in the world, possibly because the poll was conducted less than six months following the Israel/Hezbollah war in Lebanon. On average, 56 percent have a mainly negative view of the country, and just 17 percent have a positive view, the least positive rating for any country evaluated. In 23 countries the most common view is negative, with only two leaning towards a positive view and two divided.

Unsurprisingly, the most negative views of Israel are found in the predominantly Muslim countries in the Middle East, with very large majorities in Lebanon (85%), Egypt (78%), Turkey (76%), and the UAE (73%) having negative views.

Large majorities also have negative views in Europe, including Germany (77%), Greece (68%) and France (66%). Indonesia (71%), Australia (68%) and South Korea (62%) are the most negative countries in the Asia/Pacific region. Brazilians (72%) are the most negative in Latin America.

The two countries that tend to view Israel positively do so in modest numbers. Forty-five percent of Nigerians and 41 percent of Americans have positive views of Israel's influence in the world, while nearly one-third in each country has negative views. The Kenyan and Indian populations have divided views of Israel.

So there is a mixed response about Israel. Same would be true for any country in the world including Pakistan or USA or India or anyone.

Let me show you something else:

Negative views of Muslims were also strong in several Asian countries: Half or more of the Japanese, Indians, Chinese and South Koreans surveyed said they had negative impressions of Muslims.

Negative feelings about Jews were somewhat less strong, from 32 percent in India to 55 percent in China, with Japan and South Korea falling in between.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/17/world/europe/17iht-poll.4.16247639.html

You really want people to make decisions about relations between countries dependent on such polls?

 

[Vinod2070]

National interests is not a carte blanche to sell your soul. Sometimes there are extentuating circumstances, as with China and Turkey, or plain old bribery, as with Egypt, but when countries have a choice, many of them give thought to principles of human rights.

Most countries boycotted the apartheid regime in South Africa, even though it could have proved economically beneficial. Ironically, their largest arms supplier during the apartheid era was none other than Israel. Birds of a feather...

None other than Nelson Mandela equated Israel with the apartheid regime in South Africa.

All the apologist rhetoric and rationaling will not change the reality of what Israel represents.

It is not you who get to decide that. You are presuming too much.

Get off your high moral horse. It stinks!

but when countries have a choice, many of them give thought to principles of human rights.

Evidently, the same principles don't apply to your own country and other Islamic countries. The standards can be much lower there than you demand from others?

 

[toxic_pus]

I don't know, if Developereo says that there is some sort of emotional connection to the Palestinian people, then I see no reason to doubt him.

Just as I would feel bad if I saw overseas Chinese communities being attacked (in South East Asia for example)... I would imagine that Muslims would also, feel a similar sort of brotherhood to each other.

Or perhaps empathize with them to a greater degree.

All this hullabaloo is not about, if one is entitled to have empathy for one's kin. It is about how a State shall conduct its affairs with another State, and whether kinship should get priority over the collective well being of a State, particularly where there is a conflict between the two (kinship & national interest).

 

[Vinod2070]

It was always clear that the person brought up this anti-Islam thingy because he hates Israel and he hates India.

He tried to pass it off in terms of morality but that has been exposed very thoroughly. It is just the hatred and envy that is behind it all, couched in pious, self serving terms.

 

[toxic_pus]

Sometimes there are extentuating circumstances........

...and who decides what those extenuating circumstances are - the people/leaders of the effected country or gas bags from some other country.

All the apologist rhetoric and rationaling will not change the reality of what Israel represents.

...in your mind.

 

[Vinod2070]

It is also nice to know that you hold us, the bad, bad Indians to such 'high' standards, but not your all weather friend.

Not to mention his own final and perfect countries.

For them, the minorities should be grateful just for not being packed off to ghettos!

 

[Wonderer]

Sometimes there are extentuating circumstances, as with China

I would be really interested in this . What are those factors? And why India doesnt qualify? Turkey I can guess.

 

[Mike2011]

Can some body answer me.
Why USA has strong relationship with Isreal?
Why turkey has relationship with Isreal?

 

[Vinod2070]

...and who decides what those extenuating circumstances are - the people/leaders of the effected country or gas bags from some other country.

...in your mind.

Well, people need a semblance of objectivity when looking at such issues.

They do need it.