STOP AHMEDI BASHING

[Barakah]

Good, so no more jesus returning fantasies for you then.



When did I say I wanted to be associated with you violent jihadis anyways?

Its you who lives in fantasy and call ur self a muslim. dont worry us "jihadis" would never want an ahmadi to associate with us anyway

 

[Jazzbot]

I don't know if PM works or i'll send you links to MGH books and you will be shocked. [lets keep the Thread informational not religious or this thread would be closed]

I guess PM won't work as we both have less than 10,000 posts. However I never read his book but have heard a lot about it. May be you can give me some hint and I will google it myself..

PS: This thread is directly associated with religious stuff, so it will be bound to have religious stuff as reference.

 

[Cheetah786]

I am sick and tired of all this Ahmedi Bashing on PDF.

We Pakistanis are surrounded by Terrorism on a daily basis which emanates from our inherent lack of tolerance and yet we have not learnt any lessons.

I for one want to let my Pakistani and Global Ahmedi community know that I stand shoulder to shoulder with them to protect their lives , liberty and property and fight any that threaten time.

@Jaanbaz , @Pakistani Exile and other Ahmedis , I am a Sunni Muslim and I may not share your religious beliefs but I respect your right to choose your Faith and stand by you to protect your God Given Rights.

Bit of topic but exposing the hypocrisy of the post starter

I know who you speak for low life.

You are so blinded by your Shia mentality that you see nothing beyond your ayatollah brain washed Pea brain can fathom.

I am sick and tired of your Arab hateful rantings.

As for me being a Pakistani, I am 10 times a Pakistani you will ever be.
I am a real main stream Pakistani.
You are a lunatic fringe that follows Ayatollahs and are obsessed by those Luny bins.

People like me do not even consider people like you Pakistanis.

You don't have Pakistan's best interest at heart.(yes cause best interest of pakistan can be served by living in usa and not pay a dime of taxation to pakistan government)

You follow Iran's National interest but the problem is they don't give two hoots about you and will treat you worst than Animal if you ever went there. Try moving to Iran and you will find out how they will treat you.

So don't talk to me about your Pakistan's credentials and make me laugh....

Above should expose the Two faces of Pakistanisage.The great pakistani will say and do any thing for Arabs and lives in USA. not to mention his attitude of being liberal is also exposed here.

 

[sur]

Good, so no more jesus returning fantasies for you then...

Jesus returning will NOT be coming of a new prophet. He came before Muhammad. It must not be hard to understand.

It was written in Bible and Jesus himself told him people that there will be a prophet after me who will be last prophet, if you will find him in your life time, follow him and obey whatever he will teach you.

As to what Jesus said in bible, no where in bible it says "who will be LAST prophet"... It's ONLY Quran & Hadees that mentions finality. Words in bible are:


John 15:26:But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 14:26:"The Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you."


Quran:61:6:And remember Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!"

... the chain of prophethood has come to an end.....

...The problem becomes when you say Khatam does not mean finish ...

Allah (SWT) clearly said in Quran that the chain of prophets has come to an end ... confirmed it several times in different hadiths that there will be no prophet after him.

Jazzbot, everyone knows that & accepts that. From no angle it says that you become a non-Muslim if you take someone as messiah after Prophet Muhammad.

Mirzais believe that predictions of Imam Mahdi -&- 2nd coming of Jesus were symbolic/metaphorical & not literal. They believe those metaphorical predictions came true in shape of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.




Even Marzais accept finality of prophet-hood, did you know that? They just interpret it differently, just like 10 scholars will interpret a verse of Quran in 10 different ways. Mirzais claim that finality of prophet-hood meant there won't be any more Shariatt / scripture revealed. We sunnis believe finality applies to both prophet-hood & messenger-hood.

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The key point is:

"Believing in Prophet Muhammad makes you a Muslim,

Not agreeing on interpretation of "Finality", does NOT make you a non-Muslim,

We interpret "Finality" to be absolute. Mirzais interpret it to apply ONLY to finality-of-Shariah"​

...Believing in the Finality of Prophethood is one of the basic and core fundamental of Religion Islam. You lot violate that rule, hence you are not muslim...

Bring ur evidence. Or shut up. Prove from Quran & Hadees that one becomes a non-muslim if they interpret "finality" the way Ahmadis do...

Do you want me to post what mirza GQ said about Jesus? ... do me a favor don't put yourself to shame.

... MGH did not believe in Jesus and ... declared himself Jesus you want me to post?..... that's fine everyone can practice their religion [not muslim]...

You cannot dare to post because you know those allegations are debunked by Ahmadis -&- you will be ashamed yourself. & I'm talking about MGH's writings about Jesus in particular. He might have said thousand stupid things, I don't give a damn to his claims.

Mirza claimed that 2nd coming of Jesus was metaphorical & not literal. He didn't claim to be literal Jesus. He claimed to be fulfilment of that metaphorical 2nd coming... May be you read/knew out of context clippings from his book. Read context, & then DO post the whole context. I'll be waiting.


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All those so-called muslims who are declaring Ahmadis non-Muslim out of sheer lack of understanding of Quran & Hadees & out of arrogance & hatred are toeing following lines: Their forefathers gave them rubbish understanding of Deen & they are insisting on it.

It's just a "بهيڑ چال" of intellectually crippled stubborn freaks.​

Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Messenger said, "If a man says to his brother, O Kafir (disbeliever)!' Then surely one of them is such (i.e., a Kafir). "
Sahih al-Bukhari 6103, In-book ref:Book 78, Hadith 130, Online English ref: 8:73:125.



Q:2:170:When it is said to them: "Follow what God hath revealed:" They say: "Nay! we shall follow the ways of our fathers." What! even though their fathers Were void of wisdom and guidance?
Q:21:53:They said "We found our fathers worshipping them."


Q:42:14:Ironically, they broke up into sects only after the knowledge had come to them, due to jealousy and resentment among themselves...


Without a shred of evidence these ppl are bickering solely out of their whims...
Yes I do believe Ahmadis are mis-guided (& so are Shia, Brailvi, Wahabi etc etc.), but there's NO reason I see in Quran/Hadees to declare them a non-Muslim. They are as muslim as Shia, Brailvi, Wahabi etc etc... All with their share of guidance & mis-guidance...




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Q:6:159: Those who divide themselves into sects do not belong with you. Their judgement rests with GOD, then He will inform them of everything they had done.
Q:30:31-32: and be not ye among those who ... split up their Religion, and become Sects each party rejoicing in that which is with itself!




Any stupid who thinks that there's enough argument in Quran/Hadees to declare Ahmadis non-Muslim, then there is MUCH MORE argument in there to declare Brailvis a Mushrik & Kafir & declare Shia as kafirs & Wahabis as kafir & so on... Pretty much all muslims will become Kafir then...


Last Post

 

[KingMamba]

Good, so no more jesus returning fantasies for you then.

Different subject entirely, you talk of Jesus as if he is not a Muslim.

 

[Pakistani E]

Do you want me to post what mirza GQ said about Jesus? people would be shocked..do me a favor don't put yourself to shame.

Read the post again you did not understand it...second learn the term of jihad I can tell you due to media 90% of people don't know the exact meaning of jihad.

Here is something to put those people to shame who refuse to accept that MGH did commit blasphemy and yes it does prove with proof ahmediya is a separate identity not Islam.

The following book expose himself as false character and takes references from Quran interprets it to his liking that Allah was talking about him. Wow what a fkup mad man.

Book: Divine Manifestations [By mirza ghulam qadian]

PS. so where is the grave sight of jesus of ahmediya in kashmir point it to us but I also know/read MGH did not believe in Jesus and at one point in his book declared himself Jesus you want me to post?..but out of this Forum..

I Agree you are a ahmediya identity and that's fine everyone can practice their religion [not muslim] it is better you stay that way better be truthful now you can invite me to any other youtube channel, other forums and other sites to reply back to you this Forum doesn't permit, I will pick clear texts from MGQ books are post it there anywhere you want.

You are talking to me as if I have not read the books you are talking about. How about you actually read the whole books instead of getting lines and quotes from anti ahmadi sites?
Every scholar interprets the Qur'an to his liking. And the book Divine Manifestations? I've read it, You've read it and you don't want to become an ahmadi? okay fine. Does that mean I will now force you to become ahmadi? NO. But If I was in Pakistan, people would be threatening me and trying to force me to become a "muslim". Do you understand where I'm getting at now?
I don't want to debate religion because I know it will be me who gets banned. Not the ones who keep turning this into a religious debate, how do I know this? because I have no seen no warnings for anti ahmadi posters yet I have been restricted twice from threads when I have tried to do the same.

Different subject entirely, you talk of Jesus as if he is not a Muslim.

oh cmon, I explained to you in another thread exactly what I think about whether a previous prophet is a muslim or not. And This will be the last time I debate religion anyways. This thread was about stopping ahmadi bashing, yet this has been turned into exactly that.
So...
@everyone don't expect intelligent replies from me now, You wanna play ball? ok lets play ball.

Bit of topic but exposing the hypocrisy of the post starter



Above should expose the Two faces of Pakistanisage.The great pakistani will say and do any thing for Arabs and lives in USA. not to mention his attitude of being liberal is also exposed here.

I'm sorry but you imply that being a liberal is somehow detrimental to being a Pakistani? is that what you re implying?

 

[Pakistani E]

Jesus returning will NOT be coming of a new prophet. He came before Muhammad. It must not be hard to understand.








As to what Jesus said in bible, no where in bible it says "who will be LAST prophet"... It's ONLY Quran & Hadees that mentions finality. Words in bible are:


John 15:26:But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 14:26:"The Comforter, the Spirit of Truth, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said unto you."


Quran:61:6:And remember Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the Messenger of Allah (sent) to you confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs they said "This is evident sorcery!"





Jazzbot, everyone knows that & accepts that. From no angle it says that you become a non-Muslim if you take someone as messiah after Prophet Muhammad.

Mirzais believe that predictions of Imam Mahdi -&- 2nd coming of Jesus were symbolic/metaphorical & not literal. They believe those metaphorical predictions came true in shape of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.




Even Marzais accept finality of prophet-hood, did you know that? They just interpret it differently, just like 10 scholars will interpret a verse of Quran in 10 different ways. Mirzais claim that finality of prophet-hood meant there won't be any more Shariatt / scripture revealed. We sunnis believe finality applies to both prophet-hood & messenger-hood.

.
.
.

The key point is:

"Believing in Prophet Muhammad makes you a Muslim,

Not agreeing on interpretation of "Finality", does NOT make you a non-Muslim,

We interpret "Finality" to be absolute. Mirzais interpret it to apply ONLY to finality-of-Shariah"​

Last Post

At least someone makes the effort to understand others beliefs instead of becoming the agent of God and declaring fatwas of kufr.

 

[KingMamba]

@Pakistani Exile actually you left before you answered my question and idk what happened to that thread anyway I understand and I will make my leave.

 

[Pakistani E]

@Pakistani Exile actually you left before you answered my question and idk what happened to that thread anyway I understand and I will make my leave.

You interpret the verse differently, we interpret it differently. what is there to answer? And I didn't mean to come across as rude. I apologise if I did.

 

[Luftwaffe]

@Pakistani Exile, Yeah you "read" those books lol if I started posting contents from all those books you'll run away.

Remember those ridiculous claims/terms "hazarat GAHQ", "promised messiah" and all weird blatant claims.

Remember the guy posts an arabic quote/verse and says God calls himself sun and mirza ghulam qadian as moon. Oh wait in one of those book he claims to have converted misguided people [sunni/shia] back to his version of real islam in first shot about 400,000 people. You want me to post all those quotes/text where he tries to insult astaghfirullah Isa A.S. and will never post it here but you tell me where to post it outside this Forum I promise I make you run from every site you won't be able to debate it with me atleast. Even all those Quranic verse where Allah mentions Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H indirectly....miraza GAHQ says Allah is referring to him not anyone else again astaghfirullah.

Here is a blasphemy gem of MGHQ: So you said you read book and everything is ok? dude serious that man was delusional abnormal personality. Still not convinced why do you want me to hand over xxxx to you?

"I swear by God in whose hands my soul is that it is He who has sent me and has named me a prophet; it is He who has called me the Promised Messiah and has shown big signs (miracles) to testify me; these signs reach three hundred thousands."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 503; Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 68)

• "I proclaim that I am the Promised about whom every God's book has prophecised that he will appear in the Last Days."
(Tohfa-e-Golravia, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 17, P.295)

Lets not go into more details I don't want to put to shame/expose certain lot but like I said generally every person from any religion should live free in Pakistan without any pressure and be productive member of the society and that is where Pakistani government failed rest is proved that ahemdiya community is just ahmediya brand/religion that's who they are and they should come forward accept their identity just like any other religion e.g christians/jews/hindus/buddhist and so on.

@nuclearpak close the Thread it served its purpose it would get dirtier sooner or later.

 

[Luftwaffe]

I guess PM won't work as we both have less than 10,000 posts. However I never read his book but have heard a lot about it. May be you can give me some hint and I will google it myself..

PS: This thread is directly associated with religious stuff, so it will be bound to have religious stuff as reference.

If you are interested in reading for the purpose of information and research ask Aeronaut to forward your general email i'll send you links again if you are interested to know.

 

[Durrak]

If you are interested in reading for the purpose of information and research ask Aeronaut to forward your general email i'll send you links again if you are interested to know.

I also tried Sir ... Could you please mention the names of books ...

 

[Luftwaffe]

I also tried Sir ... Could you please mention the names of books ...

I mentioned two of them above read my post #281.

Another book is "divine manifestations".

 

[Pakistani E]

@Pakistani Exile, Yeah you "read" those books lol if I started posting contents from all those books you'll run away.

Remember those ridiculous claims/terms "hazarat GAHQ", "promised messiah" and all weird blatant claims.

Remember the guy posts an arabic quote/verse and says God calls himself sun and mirza ghulam qadian as moon. Oh wait in one of those book he claims to have converted misguided people [sunni/shia] back to his version of real islam in first shot about 400,000 people. You want me to post all those quotes/text where he tries to insult astaghfirullah Isa A.S. and will never post it here but you tell me where to post it outside this Forum I promise I make you run from every site you won't be able to debate it with me atleast. Even all those Quranic verse where Allah mentions Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H indirectly....miraza GAHQ says Allah is referring to him not anyone else again astaghfirullah.

Here is a blasphemy gem of MGHQ: So you said you read book and everything is ok? dude serious that man was delusional abnormal personality. Still not convinced why do you want me to hand over xxxx to you?

"I swear by God in whose hands my soul is that it is He who has sent me and has named me a prophet; it is He who has called me the Promised Messiah and has shown big signs (miracles) to testify me; these signs reach three hundred thousands."
(Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 503; Haqiqat-ul-Wahi, P. 68)

• "I proclaim that I am the Promised about whom every God's book has prophecised that he will appear in the Last Days."
(Tohfa-e-Golravia, Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 17, P.295)

Lets not go into more details I don't want to put to shame/expose certain lot but like I said generally every person from any religion should live free in Pakistan without any pressure and be productive member of the society and that is where Pakistani government failed rest is proved that ahemdiya community is just ahmediya brand/religion that's who they are and they should come forward accept their identity just like any other religion e.g christians/jews/hindus/buddhist and so on.

@nuclearpak close the Thread it served its purpose it would get dirtier sooner or later.

lol you keep saying in that post^ that you will make me run away, How old are you? You are talking like a moody-something to prove teenager. And it's obvious fromyour posts that the books you keep talking about, you haven't read yourself. That's why your posting random quotes instead of the explanation given by the writer himself. Insulting Syedna Isa (as)? yep that's the main bait, there you have just proven that you are reading anti ahmadi sites. Otherwise you would know that the insults are not directed at Syedna Isa (as) the prophet of God. But at the Christians priests who were using vulgar language against Prophet Muhammad (saw).
You are a utter moron who thinks he's some great anti ahmadi scholar by reading a few quotes from anti ahmadi websites. Talk about delusion of grandeur.
And you want a debate? okay tell me which city you live in Canada. Ill give you the address, you go there and debate with any Imam there.
I just can't take any anti ahmadi seriously when they say that Mirza sahib (as) insulted Syedna Isa (as). Because even a little ahmadi kid knows who and what the circumstances was and who those writings was directed at.
Yeah close the thread, we have too many sheikh ul islams on this thread, it's getting silly with all these childish allegations.

EDIT: LOL you're getting those quotes from alhafeez.org, no wonder it looked familiar. I have read the whole of that site many times. It still doesn't make you look clever.

 

[Pakistani E]

@Pakistani Exile actually you left before you answered my question and idk what happened to that thread anyway I understand and I will make my leave.

scroll down about halfway, you'll find my answer.

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