Staines murder case: Life sentence for Dara Singh

[Manas]

As an insider, would you provide the insight of the incident to us, with facts and sources please, no concocted stories.

Graham Staines was involved in conversion activities , buts thats not something new for missionaries working in those tribal areas.But as a foreigner Mr Staines wasn't shuttle about it and there are more serious allegations of land grabbing and abusing tribal women.Thats how he created seamering hatred among those tribal over a period of time who bore the brunt of his activities and suffered humiliation at his hand.

The missionaries of the areas were too powerful, so complains of tribals went unnoticed. Then they sought the help Dara Singh who was an aggressive VHP activist and conspired to kill Graham Staines who was sleeping in his jeep.

Staines's murer was rare an incident though not without some strong reasons behind it for the simple fact that missionaries have been working those areas for quite a longtime and hardly anyone was hurt before that . Now as i've said again whether u believe me or not it's inconsequential now.

 

[KS]

Now these people have a question for some Hindu hardliners who come beating drums everywhere the word Hindu is involved,those people who claims that every crime were a hindu is involved should be exempted,what u had done for us,giving a speech on the importance of atleast 3 children in a hindu family is easy,but providing them incentives is little tough.

Good point - but when actually a man like Swami Lakshmananda comes to walk the talk he is killed and no one raises a finger to do anything about it.

Maybe, maybe not. What we have is one native's point of view. You would have noticed that the majority of the electorate of Orissa ended up voting out the BJP & putting in the BJD all by itself which is less sympathetic to the concern voiced on conversions. What should be made of that? That the rest of us have to accept the allowing of conversion because an elected government does not bother about it. We all have our own opinions. In any case, a panchayat & not an international forum should be the choice of someone who refuses to accept legitimacy of an argument on the basis that "an outsider" is making it.

No actually if you see the voting pattern of the 2009 Assembly elections BJP has indeed done relatively well in the tribal tracts of Orissa compared to the cities.

And two points - BJP and VHP (active in those areas) are not as cohesive as you ppl make it out to be.

And how many tribals actually come to vote ?

 

[notsuperstitious]

I have many friends in Chattisgarh who converted from Hinduism to Chritianity and mind this they were not forced conversion's,everyone did it by their own consent.

Now these r the people who do not have even money to buy food for one time, conversion's r actually for monetary benefits,they get a decent job,free education,money for their girl to get married,so in short thats a good bet

Now these people have a question for some Hindu hardliners who come beating drums everywhere the word Hindu is involved,those people who claims that every crime were a hindu is involved should be exempted,what u had done for us,giving a speech on the importance of atleast 3 children in a hindu family is easy,but providing them incentives is little tough.

Thats argument is flawed completely. I also know a Tamil who converted to get admission to an engineering college.

However, to say that religion should provide for families is utter BS. Foreign money is used by missionaries to lure people, of course its easy, to lure poor people and India has millions of them. But then asking why Hindus did not provide for the families is as hollow as it can be. Hindus are poor and don't get foreign funds. And its not as if the missionaries are providing for all the poor in India, only a few thousand or million, many of whom agree to convert for it.

Sure those who convert for benefits have every right and even makes sense, but they asking me why I did not provide for them sounds like I owe them something. I don't. I however do charity through secular NGOs, thinking I'll switch to Hindu ones now.

Sure the church media worldwide is really strong and they portray every crime as a hate crime (not referring to this case). But then there is a lesson for us in it, no point whining.

To the false flag , no thats not my thumb.

 

[notsuperstitious]

The missionaries make me a Hindu!

 

[KS]

Thats argument is flawed completely. I also know a Tamil who converted to get admission to an engineering college.

It is totally true bro - In many southern districts in TN (where the soul harvesters have strong presence) the primary condition to get admission in a Missionary school, get treatment in a Christian PHC etc is to become a Christian first.

Wonder where my state is heading.

 

[Bang Galore]

Again you are getting confused - no one is defending Dara perse here, but others ought to see the bigger picture - a picture greater than the likes of Dara.

I am not confused. You are, about my position. I pointed out to only this incident of murder & any defence of it as not being acceptable. As for conversion, I have already made my opinion clear which actually is similar to your own, both for the same & some different reasons.

So unless the minority vote minded Govts step up and ban these cases of illegal blackmail, I am afraid such incidents are bound to happen time and again and you will not be able to curb that by giving 'life sentences' to figure heads.

The problem here is no government gets elected by just a minority. As long as the majority aren't convinced of the issue, there will be no change in how governments act. The problem is that the ones most agitated about the issue end up doing something stupidly violent which puts off most of the people who might otherwise be sympathetic to their position on this issue. It gets them the hardliners vote but alienated a vast majority in the middle of the spectrum.

Good point - but when actually a man like Swami Lakshmananda comes to walk the talk he is killed and no one raises a finger to do anything about it.

Fair enough, except that the violence that followed took away the attention elsewhere. I have always felt that in incidents like this murder & also in the burning of the train in Gujarat, the violent mob reaction takes away any sympathy from the primary victims & ends up making the other side looking victimised. Had the reactions been controlled on either of the cases, a lot of pressure would have resulted on the conversion activities(in orissa) & on the Muslim community on the Ayodhya issue.

It is illegal..

Along with the virdict, SC did say somthing about it.

"All religions are equal, nothing is above one. Forceful (including convincing that one religion is better than other) is not acceptable as per Indian Constitution. All religions are equal in the eyes of Law. "

I do not have a source for this with me now, it is seen on a news channel in malayalam (manorama news) now and a discussion with a Christian priest where he was defending conversion.

If the SC did say that, it's probably the best news in a long time. Awaiting confirmation though.

 

[notsuperstitious]

It is totally true bro - In many southern districts in TN (where the soul harvesters have strong presence) the primary condition to get admission in a Missionary school, get treatment in a Christian PHC etc is to become a Christian first.

Wonder where my state is heading.

My Tamil friend who is an orthodox christian studied in a hindu school because no catholic school would take him.

Reason - very difficult to convert an orthodox to catholicism.

Intolerance! Yes sir! What goes aroung should come around.

 

[jayron]

Madani and Dara are different - only a perverted mind with no analytical capability whatsoever can equate them.

What did the people of Coimbatore do to Madani for him to explode bombs in my city and kill innocents ?? There was no single case of Muslim or minority persecution in the last 50 years in my place and it was garden of peace. But that b'terd destroyed that.

But compare that to Staines - what he did destroyed the social fabric of the place and brought the restive place to flames which we again saw in Kandhmal. Obviously there will be resentment amongst the tribals for his 'illegal' activities.

Just curious.. Did the Coimbatore blasts make you and lot of others from Coimbatore BJP supporters? BJP has not taken a foot hold anywhere else in Tamil Nadu . You seem to be very right wing?

 

[Bang Galore]

The missionaries make me a Hindu!

Yeah, I know. In a discussion, when it was said to me that according to their scriptures heaven was reserved only for members of that faith & was jokingly told that I must choose, I reminded them that according to that theory, most of the people I care about would end up going to hell. I asked why I would want to go to a place(heaven) when I would know no one there. Better to be in a place with familiar faces.

 

[Manas]

Maybe, maybe not. What we have is one native's point of view. You would have noticed that the majority of the electorate of Orissa ended up voting out the BJP & putting in the BJD all by itself which is less sympathetic to the concern voiced on conversions. What should be made of that? That the rest of us have to accept the allowing of conversion because an elected government does not bother about it. We all have our own opinions. In any case, a panchayat & not an international forum should be the choice of someone who refuses to accept legitimacy of an argument on the basis that "an outsider" is making it.

An outsider especally someone with insuffeinct knowledge making assertion and ridiculing an insider's point of view instead of listening carefully is simply adamant behavior.U mayn't agree with me ,but calling my version gibberish since it doesn't fits in to ur world view(?) is downright ugly.

Tribal belt of Odiha have been BJP bastion for longtime,its no surprise not as not just in Odisha, BJP have been very successful in majority nearby tribal region be it,Chattisgarh,Jarkhand. The dismal performance of BJP in the recent election of Lokshabha 2009 is due to several factor one of them is popularity of Naveen Patniak as CM and another one is most people didn't know coalition between BJP and BJD had been broken just before elections or believed that BJD will once again join NDA alliance after the election ,so BJD made a sweeping victory all over Odisha. BTW BJP won few legislative seats in assembly elections conducted at the same time , they were all from tribal belt of western Odisha.

 

[notsuperstitious]

I think we must be very very careful that any discussion regarding the illegal activities of missionaries should not end up looking like defence of illegal activities of murderers like dara singh.

Thats a pitfall we must avoid. And that seems to be a very difficult thing going by the discussion so far.

Conclusion - Dara Singh must be punished. And in unrelated opinion - foreign money should be regulated.

 

[jayron]

A lot of the Tamil Christians especially the new converts have this very bad habit of canvasing people. If they know you have some personal problem, they will try to exploit it by praying , conducting masses and stuff like that. The next step will be luring with money and job. This is more like multi-level marketing. Andhra is their latest target where scores of people have been converted.

 

[Manas]

Anybody wants to gain knowledge about missionary activies worldwide and its objectives here u go. Check out countrywise.

Joshua Project - Unreached Peoples of the World

 

[Gene]

Why these missionaries are so desperate to convert these tribal people????
Most of the conversion activities you will find are in these tribal areas,why??

these missionaries chose the tribal peoples who are uneducated,have no money and no job,they just lure them with money & exploit there weakness.

if you ever visit orissa specially the tribal district like koraput,kandhamal you will see huge amount of villages entirely converted to Christian leaving not a single family who has not converted to Christianity in that village.In koraput there are nearly 40% people converted to Christianity,all are tribals.

If these people are converted to their own wish,how can the entire village got converted leaving behind none???these missionaries are luring the entire village with money and jobs,& you know those who are got converted to Christianity are richer than the tribals who are not converted.Because of that there is widening gap between tribals & converted tribals.If you are a hindu,then never dare to enter these converted villages,even govt.officials don't dare.believe me
Why these missionaries are frightened to operate in urban area??because they know that they are unable to do that,as those people here are educated,have money and know the facts unless the simple adibasis..

these forced conversions should be stopped..if not these kind of incident will bound to happen.

 

[Manas]

It is totally true bro - In many southern districts in TN (where the soul harvesters have strong presence) the primary condition to get admission in a Missionary school, get treatment in a Christian PHC etc is to become a Christian first.

Wonder where my state is heading.

Joshua Project says Tamilnadu is nearly 50% and India is 12% Christian by now.