Featured SSK Agosta 90B Class Attack Submarine Information Pool

[Arsalan]

There is no news whether other two Agostas are fitted with Mesma or not

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-navy/116279-second-mesma-aip-ready-shipment-pakistan.html

http://www.defence.pk/forums/pakistan-navy/66097-2-more-mesma-aip-2011-a.html

i think its done!
the news is quite old when we all talked about PN decision to buy two more MESMA AIP systems from France and all was figured out. there were not issues with that deal and nothing really that seemed like going wrong.

the news of the submarines being fitted with it and running again!
ANY NEWS OF THAT ANTIBODY?

mmmm, as per my information the second MESMA AIP was shipped to Pakistan in 2011 and is now with our navy. this is to be fitted in next major overhaul scheduled for PNS Khalid. fitting it is a long a laborious job and thus will be preferably be joined with the scheduled overhaul.

A second Khalid-class (Agosta 90B) submarine of the Pakistan Navy is to be retrofitted with a MESMA (Module d'Energie Sous-Marine Autonome) air independent propulsion (AIP) system from 2011, according to French shipbuilder and systems specialist DCNS.A DCNS spokeswoman told Jane's on 20 April that the MESMA unit would be installed in the 1,760-ton boat during its first long overhaul period in Pakistan.Two of Pakistan's three Khalid-class submarines - PNS Khalid (S 137) and PNS Saad (S 138) - do not yet have AIP, but the spokeswoman was unable to say which of them would receive it.

The unit was completed by DCNS in Cherbourg and transferred on 15 April to a test site at Indres-Nantes, where it will be tested before being shipped to Pakistan.The liquid oxygen MESMA system is installed within a hull plug measuring 6.2 m in diameter and 8.6 m long and weighing 160 tons. It has a power output of 200 kW, quadrupling a submarine's dived performance at 4 kt and allowing it to carry out extended underwater operations of two weeks or more.Pakistan ordered the three Khalid-class boats from France in the early 1990s, with Khalid and Saad entering service in 1999 and 2003. The final boat, PNS Hamza (S 139), was fitted with the MESMA system during its construction at Karachi Shipyard and Engineering Works and was commissioned in September 2008.

so we have got one MESMA AIP and either Saad and/or Khalid will be fitted.
Pakistan have signed deal for one more system thus all three subs are to be fitted with AIP eventually!

regards!

 

[Nishan_101]

Although it was much better for the PN to join with chinese over the development of SSKs, 2100 multi mission Corvettes and multi mission FAC and procure like:
21 SSKs
21 FACs
15 Corvettes...

If they had done that then the SSKs that might have been completed in 2005 could get in to production from 2006 and we can go for 7 of these from 2006-2010 to replace Agosta-70s and then from 2011-2015 for an other 7 of the Block-II and the from 2016-2020 for Block-IIIs that will eventually replace the Agosta-90Bs...
The Agosta-70s could be upgrade in 2005 with the system that France can offer and then we can sell it to BDs or any other.

 

[razgriz19]

Although it was much better for the PN to join with chinese over the development of SSKs, 2100 multi mission Corvettes and multi mission FAC and procure like:
21 SSKs
21 FACs
15 Corvettes...

If they had done that then the SSKs that might have been completed in 2005 could get in to production from 2006 and we can go for 7 of these from 2006-2010 to replace Agosta-70s and then from 2011-2015 for an other 7 of the Block-II and the from 2016-2020 for Block-IIIs that will eventually replace the Agosta-90Bs...
The Agosta-70s could be upgrade in 2005 with the system that France can offer and then we can sell it to BDs or any other.

stop DREAMING man. come back to reality..

 

[Nishan_101]

So whats the reality...

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Reality is lack of $$$$$$!!! Everyone will sell you stuff (Sans certain countries which have ongoing military deals with India and would not want to jeapordise those deals as India insists on "No-Supply to Pakistan" clause).

Gt our economy on track and a lot of thnigs will start heppennig.

 

[Armstrong]

Calling me an expert on defence related stuff would be criminal but reading through the previous page - the Agosta 90Bs look like a capable submarine and if it can be upgraded a bit further by the Pakistanis, with the help of the Chinese, it would provide us with a very capable indigenous platform...why then aren't we then looking into this ?

 

[Arsalan]

Calling me an expert on defense related stuff would be criminal but reading through the previous page - the Agosta 90Bs look like a capable submarine and if it can be upgraded a bit further by the Pakistanis, with the help of the Chinese, it would provide us with a very capable indigenous platform...why then aren't we then looking into this ?

it will require approval from French, surely for some money!

as for China, they will surely want us to invest and buy from them instead of going for upgrading some other platform!
yes, the JV will be beneficial for Chinese as well but this too will face opposition from French!

 

[Armstrong]

it will require approval from French, surely for some money!

as for China, they will surely want us to invest and buy from them instead of going for upgrading some other platform!
yes, the JV will be beneficial for Chinese as well but this too will face opposition from French!

French approval is needed ? I didn't know that...I thought we had complete TOT for the Agostas.

And the Chinese are our friends...just as they have helped us out in many other defence related areas instead of selling us a much more costly piece of equipment...I thought we could ask them to help incorporate some of the better technology that their Yuan, Song and Kilos have in them !

 

[Arsalan]

French approval is needed ? I didn't know that...I thought we had complete TOT for the Agostas.

And the Chinese are our friends...just as they have helped us out in many other defence related areas instead of selling us a much more costly piece of equipment...I thought we could ask them to help incorporate some of the better technology that their Yuan, Song and Kilos have in them !

ToT do not means you can make them at will without approval!
need to get permission,
even cant export it with out approval

the transfer of technology do not give ownership rights!

 

[[--Leo--]]

ToT do not means you can make them at will without approval!
need to get permission,
even cant export it with out approval

the transfer of technology do not give ownership rights!

Can make new 1 with new names and some additional features
the main thing was the technology that we recived
and about resreach we can do some own resreach

 

[Aamir Hussain]

The expertise that was developed while assembling the Agosta 90B were:

Project Plannng and implementation of complex systems and sub systems.
Specialised welding techniques for special steel
Procuremet of specialised jig and fixtures that help align subsystems during mating process.
Systems integration and testing regimes of onboard electronic systems
Some rolling and bending of hull components through purpose build rolling/bending presses
Weliding procedures for specialised piping and flange assemblies.
Power plan integratinoand testing protocols

The above enabled the The Deflog Organization to work with complex project which included managment and exectuion of Mechanical, Hydraulic, Electrical and electronic components installation and mating. The exercise also inducted a lot of purpose built precision machinery.

The design section was also given a good go around on the project.

My guess is that yes they can produce another A90 provided they have major components and subassemblies supplied ot thme by France and the special steel.

 

[VCheng]

..........
My guess is that yes they can produce another A90 provided they have major components and subassemblies supplied ot thme by France and the special steel.

Metallurgy is a crucial expertise in which Pakistan continues to lag far behind its needs.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Metallurgy is a crucial expertise in which Pakistan continues to lag far behind its needs.

Metallurgy is an area where Russia, China, and even India lags behind the west. It is a one of the favourite areas of industrial espionage.

 

[VCheng]

Metallurgy is an area where Russia, China, and even India lags behind the west. It is a one of the favourite areas of industrial espionage.

Yes, and that is why there is such a huge difference between manufacture and assembly. Pakistan can only assemble if given access to parts.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Yes, and that is why there is such a huge difference between manufacture and assembly. Pakistan can only assemble if given access to parts.

Yep right but it is generally considered to be fisrt step in the right direction, i.e. self production. Let me correct myself here, the first step is to refit a vessel. PN has been refitting both Daphne's and A70's and now have the capabiltiy to refit the A90's.

PN has taken the secons step to assemble and manufacture, reroll some of the outer hull parts etc.

We mightnot be there but our direction is correct. Now if we can get hold of some Chinese ToT, coupled with French know how, I think we can imporve the Chinese product. Not a lot but it would be a start.

i would be really interested in the Chinese prop technology.