Featured SSK Agosta 90B Class Attack Submarine Information Pool

[Blue Marlin]

Can you post types of AIPs and there pros n cons??? And which one is better??

there are 3 main types of aip's, Stirling,MESMA and fuel cell

stirling aip's were the first proper aip which came from sweden which was on the Gotland Class submarine
typical striling aip have an endurance fro about 18 days average it is efficient and is quiet safe, if it's running on a closed system which there all are now. but it does produce a lot of heat and it does vibrate quiet a lot typically striling aip's
are on a frame which holds the aip with rubber padding and other vibration reducing methods and materials.
below is a gotland class submarine the first sub in the world to be powered by an aip.

below is a saab stirling aip

next is closed steam turbines more commonly known as MESMA.
this aip is quiet new and was first featured on PNS Hamza from the Pakistan Navy in the mid 2000's
it does have a greater endurance than the striling aip at 21 days, but its much more dangerous as it holds very volatile fuels and has loud vibrating turbines and coolers
below is a diagram of how a fuel cell works.

Below is a MESMA module in Karachi being installed on ag90-b submarine.

Below is PNS Hamza under construction in Karachi.

finally there is fuel cell aip's
fuel cell aip's are mostly built by the german ship builder Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW). i personally prefer this aip as the output is from an electric motor this reduces vibrations going from the engine through the propeller shaft and to the propeller. and it has almost no moving parts and is extremely quiet and is personally the most stealthiest. but it does hold very volatile fuels such as bio ethanol and liquid oxygen.
below is the 4th isreali navy dolphin class sub which is fitted with a fuel cell aip. it also worth noting the type 214 also has a fule cell aip, and slcm's

 

[Basel]

there are 3 main types of aip's, Stirling,MESMA and fuel cell

stirling aip's were the first proper aip which came from sweden which was on the Gotland Class submarine
typical striling aip have an endurance fro about 18 days average it is efficient and is quiet safe, if it's running on a closed system which there all are now. but it does produce a lot of heat and it does vibrate quiet a lot typically striling aip's
are on a frame which holds the aip with rubber padding and other vibration reducing methods and materials.
below is a gotland class submarine the first sub in the world to be powered by an aip.
View attachment 265863
below is a saab stirling aip
View attachment 265864
next is closed steam turbines more commonly known as MESMA.
this aip is quiet new and was first featured on PNS Hamza from the Pakistan Navy in the mid 2000's
it does have a greater endurance than the striling aip at 21 days, but its much more dangerous as it holds very volatile fuels and has loud vibrating turbines and coolers
below is a diagram of how a fuel cell works.
View attachment 265870
Below is a MESMA module in Karachi being installed on ag90-b submarine.
View attachment 265874
Below is PNS Hamza under construction in Karachi.
View attachment 265871

finally there is fuel cell aip's
fuel cell aip's are mostly built by the german ship builder Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft (HDW). i personally prefer this aip as the output is from an electric motor this reduces vibrations going from the engine through the propeller shaft and to the propeller. and it has almost no moving parts and is extremely quiet and is personally the most stealthiest. but it does hold very volatile fuels such as bio ethanol and liquid oxygen.
below is the 4th isreali navy dolphin class sub which is fitted with a fuel cell aip. it also worth noting the type 214 also has a fule cell aip.
View attachment 265881

Thanks for informative post.

 

[A2Z]

all 8 subs may get stirling aip modules, and Pakistan will get tot of the aip's.

Well again you have used the word MAY. PN has kept the deal in such a secrecy that sometimes I even doubt the numbers they have stated.
However if we go with the worst case scenario and we don't get the AIP, then are the Chinese sub as good as our Augosta90B?

 

[Aamir Hussain]

PN is adamant to include AIP. No deal without the AIP system. If PN is planning to use submarines for the third leg of their Triad then AIP is a must.

 

[Penguin]

Tanks for the response, but you left last part of my post regarding MLU of 90-Bs, please give your opinion on that too.

That is a very difficult question to answer, because a) what is it exactly and b) what should it be compared against? (Upholder as in UK service, or 'improved' Victoria class in Canada - snafu program). I'm afraid it would be apples and oranges.

 

[black-hawk_101]

That is a very difficult question to answer, because a) what is it exactly and b) what should it be compared against? (Upholder as in UK service, or 'improved' Victoria class in Canada - snafu program). I'm afraid it would be apples and oranges.

Any new Submarines planned from EU and what are the upcoming projects there in?

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

20 km range on the heavyweight torpedoes seems to be a major weakness.I doubt it can get that close to modern warships or rival submarines.Especially ones with active sonar.
An upgrade to newer torpedoes like black shark or seahake with 50 km range would be better.

 

[Blue Marlin]

20 km range on the heavyweight torpedoes seems to be a major weakness.I doubt it can get that close to modern warships or rival submarines.Especially ones with active sonar.
An upgrade to newer torpedoes like black shark or seahake with 50 km range would be better.

the sea hake mod 4 is an export variant of the black shark torpedo. and the mod 4 is the same as the dm2a4 which pakistan has. and its range is 50km
DM2A4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[AUSTERLITZ]

the sea hake mod 4 is an export variant of the black shark torpedo. and the mod 4 is the same as the dm2a4 which pakistan has. and its range is 50km
DM2A4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
View attachment 266149

Then why does article say 20 km range?
Shoddy journalism.

 

[Blue Marlin]

Then why does article say 20 km range?
Shoddy journalism.

read the highlighted bit, and after the second reference

 

[Penguin]

20 km range on the heavyweight torpedoes seems to be a major weakness.I doubt it can get that close to modern warships or rival submarines.Especially ones with active sonar.
An upgrade to newer torpedoes like black shark or seahake with 50 km range would be better.

Question is whether 50km can ba attained at highest running speed (some torps have different possible speed settings, where longer ranges can be achieved but at lower running speed)

 

[black-hawk_101]

The deal should be continued and now PN should go for about 12 Andrasta SSKs. May be all directly from France in coming 5 years time with Saudi Money Support.

 

[shaheenmissile]

That is a very difficult question to answer, because a) what is it exactly and b) what should it be compared against? (Upholder as in UK service, or 'improved' Victoria class in Canada - snafu program). I'm afraid it would be apples and oranges.

The French Towed array which came with Agosta have been replaced by a better Home made Slim line towed array with more Hydrophones and better software. That is not MLU,but an improvement anyway.

 

[nadeemkhan110]

Photo credit: Havelsan

STM SELECTS HAVELSAN TO HELP SUPPORT PAKISTAN AGOSTA 90B UPGRADE

C4 Defence reports that Savunma Teknolojileri Mühendislik ve Ticaret A.Ş. (STM) awarded Turkish defence electronics vendor Havelsan a contract to supply a Naval Integration Command and Control System for the Pakistan Navy’s Agosta 90B submarine upgrade program.

As per C4 Defence, the contract was signed on 27 December, 2016.

This is Havelsan’s first time supplying underwater solutions for a foreign user.

Notes & Comments:

STM won the bid to upgrade the Pakistan Navy’s three Agosta 90B submarines in June 2016. As per Turkish officials, the value of the contract was USD $350 million. As the principal contractor, STM is responsible for selecting subsystem vendors to equip the Khalid-class submarine.

In October, STM selected Airbus Defence and Space to provide the SERO 250 periscope and OMS 200 optronic mast. In November, STM selected Aselsan’s ARES-2SC/NS electronic support measures system.

The specific designation of Havelsan’s solution (for the Agosta 90Bs) was not disclosed. The company does have several new-generation subsystems in development, including a new combat management system and command and control system for the Turkish Navy’s forthcoming Type 214s. It is not clear if these will coincide with the Pakistani program. Considering that the original STM press release notes that it would take 45 months to deliver the first upgraded Agosta 90B, it is possible (assuming that this is not a typo) that the long lead time is accounting for Havelsan’s development cycle.

STM is also working to sell four MILGEM warships to the Pakistan Navy, it hopes to secure a final contract in 2017. STM is also pitching its FAC-55 design for the Pakistan Navy’s need for four to six fast attack crafts, which may be destined for the Navy’s newly raised Task Force-88 unit.
Source: http://quwa.org/2016/12/27/stm-selects-havelsan-to-help-support-pakistan-agosta-90b-upgrade/

 

[ziya]

the sea hake mod 4 is an export variant of the black shark torpedo. and the mod 4 is the same as the dm2a4 which pakistan has. and its range is 50km
DM2A4 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
View attachment 266149

the range of torpedos vary according to speed at full speed it cant be 50km but at lower speed it can,most of the surface ships can not detect a submarine beyond 10 km because of their own noise,for sub to sub is a different story,the power of dm2a4 is comes from guidence that torpedo resistant to many soft anti torpedo countermeasures its hard not to be a victim ,we have dma2a4 and tested it with our aselsan hızır anti torpedo system and its only slowed to give some time to ship for maneuveours,mean time aselsan working hard kill system called tork torpedo against torpedos that will be ultimate answer for surface ships against all torpedos guided or unguided