Spirituality-: Finding the truth

[Pakistani E]

Sufi's preaching pure teaching of Islam???
R u serious?? Then you were not with true Sufi. I would like to suggest you some true Sufi's like, Bulle shah, maulana Sibli, Shah inaayat, shaikh taki to read. I m sure your views will change about Sufi's after reading them.
Actually Sufi's don't believe in concept of religions. Mostly they are humanists.

Sorry, they say go to the root to learn the meaning of a word. I am quite well acquainted with actual Sufis, not internet followers of spirituality who disown one of the greatest Sufi Shaikhs because his Islamic leanings is presented to them.

As mentioned before, I am friends with people who are actual Sufis who are in the Tariqas. You know more about their beliefs than them?

Also, since you are in the habit of disowning Sufis, can you tell me your silsila ?

 

[Spring Onion]

If Spiritualism has nothing to do with any divine power or faith in a divine power then why on earth there had been NO atheist as a sufi or spiritual person ?

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Sorry, they say go to the root to learn the meaning of a word. I am quite well acquainted with actual Sufis, not internet followers of spirituality who disown one of the greatest Sufi Shaikhs because his Islamic leanings is presented to them.

As mentioned before, I am friends with people who are actual Sufis who are in the Tariqas. You know more about their beliefs than them?

Also, since you are in the habit of disowning Sufis, can you tell me your silsila ?

Disowning Sufi's?? Me ?? Where?? Lol
Man, I respect Sufi's more than I respect God. Bcz I know them. Actual Sufi's are humanist , not Islamic. And I can prove it.

If Spiritualism has nothing to do with any divine power or faith in a divine power then why on earth there had been NO atheist as a sufi or spiritual person ?

Where I said "spiritualism has nothing to do with divine power"?? You r mixing divine power with religion. I only said spiritualism has nothing to do with religion.

 

[Pakistani E]

Disowning Sufi's?? Me ?? Where?? Lol
Man, I respect Sufi's more than I respect God. Bcz I know them. Actual Sufi's are humanist , not Islamic. And I can prove it.

Are you going to copy and paste random bits of poetry again to prove your point? You can respect who you like, that doesn't consider me. I don't actually care if in your eyes "Sufis" are not religious. But knowing Sufis as personal acquaintances, I know for a certain that they are deeply religious people, while at the same time having the ideals of tolerance and human understanding.

Now tell me, do you know who Sheikh Nazim Al Haqqani was? Or what the Naqsbandi Tariqa is? Or any Tariqas? Or what giving ba'yah is to a Sufi master?

I get it man, it's the 21st century and humans have entered a period where they believe they are the masters of their own fate so they want to disassociate themselves from religion as they view it backward. That's fine.

 

[Neuro]

Hi All,
First I want to make clear that this thread is not on religious topic, nor about any religion.
I'm talking about spirituality here.
I have been met and had conversation with many religious people around the world. And I was surprised that many of them even don't know the meaning of spiritualism. They connects spiritualism with religion.
But here I tell you that spiritualism is different from religions.
What is spiritualism??
Spiritualism is the scientific way to connect with The Almighty God. Its all about searching and finding the truth. This is not about blind beliefs. Its all about finding your own light.
Mostly religious people think that there are only two types people living in this world. One is religious and other is atheists.
But they don't know there is a middle way existed between religion and atheism. That's is spiritualism.
Spiritualism never praise or criticize anything. Its all about your individual connection with the Almighty .
Once a person becomes spiritual , will be no longer religious.
And if a person is no longer religious , he/she can't be hated by anyone on the name of religion. So spiritualism is the only way to bring peace in this world.
Only then nobody will find a reason to hate you or kill you.
Here I'm posting some spiritual quotes from some of great spiritual personalities. :-
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Scientific way??? Spiritualism impress our soul but science express with facts and figures both are different entity. Spiritualism is a middle way between religion and atheism!!! really??? another half baked story. First read about own religion and talk have you ever read about Shivam/Shavism. Do you know what is meant by agachamyee , Purachamyee , agapurachamayee , Purapurachamyaee those are classification of samyee the last one(Purapurachamyaee ) is nothing but atheism that also come under shivam. Read.............then you seek truth........

 

[EgyptianAmerican]

Actual Sufi's are humanist , not Islamic. And I can prove it.

Someone was clearly not talking to actual sufis then. Sufi's are actually some of the most hardcore Islamic people on the planet. Trying to disown them from Islam is like trying to disown Jesus from Christianity. It's simply impossibly. Sufi beliefs are grounded in Islam and is an Islamic sect.

Regardless how you feel Rumi was a devout Muslim. He believed in Islam, no random fake quote from the internet is going to disprove that.


It is undeniable that Rumi was a Muslim scholar and took Islam seriously.
—Quatrain 305
According to the Quran, Prophet Muhammad is a mercy sent by God to the Aalameen (to all creation), including humanity overall.[68] In regards to this, Rumi states:

"The Light of Muhammad does not abandon a Zoroastrian or Jew in the world. May the shade of his good fortune shine upon everyone! He brings all of those who are led astray into the Way out of the desert."[69]

Rumi, however, asserts the supremacy of Islam by stating:

"The Light of Muhammad has become a thousand branches (of knowledge), a thousand, so that both this world and the next have been seized from end to end. If Muhammad rips the veil open from a single such branch, thousands of monks and priests will tear the string of false belief from around their waists."[70]


Many of Rumi's poems suggest the importance of outward religious observance and the primacy of the Qur'an.[71]

Flee to God's Qur'an, take refuge in it
there with the spirits of the prophets merge.
The Book conveys the prophets' circumstances
those fish of the pure sea of Majesty.[72]

Rumi states:

I am the servant of the Qur'an as long as I have life.
I am the dust on the path of Muhammad, the Chosen one.
If anyone quotes anything except this from my sayings,
I am quit of him and outraged by these words.[73]

Rumi also states:

"I "sewed" my two eyes shut from [desires for] this world and the next – this I learned from Muhammad."[74]

On the first page of the Masnavi, Rumi states:

"Hadha kitâbu 'l- mathnawîy wa huwa uSûlu uSûli uSûli 'd-dîn wa kashshâfu 'l-qur'ân."
"This is the book of the Masnavi, and it is the roots of the roots of the roots of the (Islamic) Religion and it is the Explainer of the Qur'ân."[75]

Seyyed Hossein Nasr states:

One of the greatest living authorities on Rûmî in Persia today, Hâdî Hâ'irî, has shown in an unpublished work that some 6,000 verses of the Dîwân and the Mathnawî are practically direct translations of Qur'ânic verses into Persian poetry.[76]

Rumi states in his Dīwān:

The Sufi is hanging on to Muhammad, like Abu Bakr.[77]

His Masnavi contains anecdotes and stories derived largely from the Quran and the hadith, as well as everyday tales.

The very definition of a sufi is a Muslim.

Su·fi
ˈso͞ofē/
noun

1. a Muslim ascetic and mystic.
   
   Sufism or Taṣawwuf[1] (Arabic: التصوف‎‎), which is often defined as "Islamic mysticism,"[2] "the inward dimension of Islam,"[3][4] or "the phenomenon of mysticism within Islam,"[5][6] is a mystical trend in Islam "characterized ... [by particular] values, ritual practices, doctrines and institutions"[7] which began very early on in Islamic history[5] and which represents "the main manifestation and the most important and central crystallization of" mystical practice in Islam.[8]
   
   
   
   
   
   Sufi beliefs about Muhammad[edit]
   According to Ibn Arabi, Islam is the best religion because of Muhammad.[91] Ibn Arabi regards that the first entity that was brought into existence is the reality or essence of Muhammad (al-ḥaqīqa al-Muhammadiyya). Ibn Arabi regards Muhammad as the supreme human being and master of all creatures. Muhammad is therefore the primary role-model for human beings to aspire to emulate.[91] Ibn Arabi believes that God's attributes and names are manifested in this world and that the most complete and perfect display of these divine attributes and names are seen in Muhammad.[91] Ibn Arabi believes that one may see God in the mirror of Muhammad, meaning that the divine attributes of God are manifested through Muhammad.[91] Ibn Arabi maintains that Muhammad is the best proof of God and by knowing Muhammad one knows God.[91] Ibn Arabi also maintains that Muhammad is the master of all of humanity in both this world and the afterlife. In this view, Islam is the best religion, because Muhammad is Islam.[91]
   
   Sufis maintain that the Prophet Muhammad is Al-Insān al-Kāmil. Sufis believe that aid and support may be received from Prophet Muhammad, even today. Sufis believe that the Prophet Muhammad listens to them when they call upon him. Sufis strive towards having a relationship with Prophet Muhammad and seeking to see Prophet Muhammad in a dream is a common Sufi practice.
   
   
   Muhammad[edit]
   “ His [Muhammad's] aspiration preceded all other aspirations, his existence preceded nothingness, and his name preceded the Pen, because he existed before all peoples. There is not in the horizons, beyond the horizons or below the horizons, anyone more elegant, more noble, more knowing, more just, more fearsome, or more compassionate, than the subject of this tale. He is the leader of created beings, the one "whose name is glorious Ahmad"[Quran 61:6].
   —Mansur Al-Hallaj[82]
   
   ”
   Devotion to Muhammad is an exceptionally strong practice within Sufism.[83] Sufis have historically revered Muhammad as the prime personality of spiritual greatness. The Sufi poet Saadi Shirazi stated, "He who chooses a path contrary to that of the prophet [Muhammad], shall never reach the destination. O Saadi, do not think that one can treat that way of purity except in the wake of the chosen one [Muhammad]."[84] Rumi attributes his self-control and abstinence from worldly desires as qualities attained by him through the guidance of Muhammad. Rumi states, "I 'sewed' my two eyes shut from [desires for] this world and the next – this I learned from Muhammad."[85] Ibn Arabi regards Muhammad as the greatest man and states, "Muhammad's wisdom is uniqueness (fardiya) because he is the most perfect existent creature of this human species. For this reason, the command began with him and was sealed with him. He was a Prophet while Adam was between water and clay, and his elemental structure is the Seal of the Prophets."[86] Attar of Nishapur claimed that he praised Muhammad in such a manner that was not done before by any poet, in his book the Ilahi-nama.[87] Fariduddin Attar stated, "Muhammad is the exemplar to both worlds, the guide of the descendants of Adam. He is the sun of creation, the moon of the celestial spheres, the all-seeing eye...The seven heavens and the eight gardens of paradise were created for him, he is both the eye and the light in the light of our eyes."[88] Sufis have historically stressed the importance of Muhammad's perfection and his ability to intercede. The persona of Muhammad has historically been and remains an integral and critical aspect of Sufi belief and practice.[83] Bayazid Bastami is recorded to have been so devoted to the sunnah of Muhammad that he refused to eat a watermelon due to the fact that he could not establish that Muhammad ever ate one.[89]
   
   
   The name of Muhammad in Arabic calligraphy. Sufis believe the name of Muhammad is holy and sacred.
   In the 13th century, a Sufi poet from Egypt, Al-Busiri, wrote the al-Kawākib ad-Durrīya fī Madḥ Khayr al-Barīya (The Celestial Lights in Praise of the Best of Creation) commonly referred to as Qaṣīdat al-Burda ("Poem of the Mantle"), in which he extensively praised Muhammad.[90] This poem is still widely recited and sung amongst Sufi groups all over the world.[90]
   
   
   
   Sufism and Islamic law[edit]
   
   Tomb of Salim Chishti, Fatehpur Sikri, Agra, Uttar Pradesh, India
   Sufis believe the sharia (exoteric "canon"), tariqa (esoteric "order") and haqiqa ("truth") are mutually interdependent.[92] Sufism leads the adept, called salikor "wayfarer", in his sulûk or "road" through different stations (maqaam) until he reaches his goal, the perfect tawhid, the existential confession that God is One.[93] Ibn Arabi says, "When we see someone in this Community who claims to be able to guide others to God, but is remiss in but one rule of the Sacred Law—even if he manifests miracles that stagger the mind—asserting that his shortcoming is a special dispensation for him, we do not even turn to look at him, for such a person is not a sheikh, nor is he speaking the truth, for no one is entrusted with the secrets of God Most High save one in whom the ordinances of the Sacred Law are preserved. (Jamiʿ karamat al-awliyaʾ)".[94]
   
   The Amman Message, a detailed statement issued by 200 leading Islamic scholars in 2005 in Amman, and adopted by the Islamic world's political and temporal leaderships at the Organisation of the Islamic Conference summit at Mecca in December 2005, and by six other international Islamic scholarly assemblies including the International Islamic Fiqh Academy of Jeddah, in July 2006, specifically recognized the validity of Sufism as a part of Islam—however the definition of Sufism can vary drastically between different traditions (what may be intended is simple tazkiah as opposed to the various manifestations of Sufism around the Islamic world).[95]
   
   
   I'm sorry but you can't be a sufi if you aren't a Muslim. Otherwise you are just a fake sufi attempting to make up shit as you go. Screw off.

 

[gayMo]

I would like to read your comments on mysticism / sufism, wali, elham, kashaf etc etc in light of Quran. As far as I have read and based on my little understanding all this is in strict contradiction with Quran and Khatam e Naboowat. An alien plant planted in soil of Islam (as Iqbal said).

Well islam is an alien soil in the native plant of the East.... thinking about it in a different way

 

[I.R.A]

Well islam is an alien soil in the native plant of the East.... thinking about it in a different way

Can you elaborate a bit how Islam is alien? You may have been following Islam unknowingly so how does that make Islam alien?

 

[The SC]

When we talk about spirituality, we talk about the intangible, the same as when we talk about thoughts, feelings and the mind.. the intangible when combines with the physical world, helps create realities that we sense through our 5 senses and thus become tangible to us..This is true for religions as well as secularism, since it concerns the nature of Human beings..
As an example, Islam's spirituality is based on belief or faith in God, this calls for an initial feeling and thought reinforced by logic from the Mind and then transmuted as reality through the senses when one reads the Qoran and understands it.. one starts seeing the _real_ reality; the tangible one, in everything, be it other humans, trees, mountains, the Sky or the sea...etc, and then connect the whole system to God..

 

[I.R.A]

since it concerns the nature of Human beings..

Humans don't have a nature, they learn it from their surroundings, unlike all other creations that have a nature and act to a default instruction, humans and their brains are different they need guidance. You can read upon children who grew in wilderness and how they act, if they had a nature they would act like rest of civilised humans.

 

[Signalian]

Disowning Sufi's?? Me ?? Where?? Lol
Man, I respect Sufi's more than I respect God. Bcz I know them. Actual Sufi's are humanist , not Islamic. And I can prove it.

Many of your concepts about Islamic sufis are completely wrong.

Sufis are not usually on "preaching Islam mission". The non-muslims gather around a sufi because a sufi has attraction of morals, actions and worship. The non muslims don't come to them to learn about islam or become muslims. They come to them because muslim sufis show humanity to everyone. Then if a non muslim himself shows interest to be like that Sufi, then the muslim sufi tells him about Islam.

You should clear your basic concepts before you continue mixing things up.

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

Are you going to copy and paste random bits of poetry again to prove your point? You can respect who you like, that doesn't consider me. I don't actually care if in your eyes "Sufis" are not religious. But knowing Sufis as personal acquaintances, I know for a certain that they are deeply religious people, while at the same time having the ideals of tolerance and human understanding.

Now tell me, do you know who Sheikh Nazim Al Haqqani was? Or what the Naqsbandi Tariqa is? Or any Tariqas? Or what giving ba'yah is to a Sufi master?

I get it man, it's the 21st century and humans have entered a period where they believe they are the masters of their own fate so they want to disassociate themselves from religion as they view it backward. That's fine.

I don't know with whom you have been. But I tell you there are many fake spiritual baba's in India too. There only motive to manipulate the things regarding their own business. And there are many those who confused between religion and spiritualism like this Turkish Sufi Shaikh Nazim Al Haqqauni and Rumi.
You simply don't know the difference between spirituality and Religion.
I explained it before on this thread. I will explain for you again.
Religion-: Religion is a group of people those who are following the strictly laws and rules of religion. Religion is when something imposed on you through religious scripture books. And you have to follow these law strictly.
Spiritualism-: Spiritualism is a freedom. It is based on your individual contact with the Almighty. It is free from all rules and laws of religion. It is self realization.
And when we talk about actual Sufi , are they religious or Humanists?? You must go through this article about actual Sufi.
https://lubpak.com/archives/57185

Many of your concepts about Islamic sufis are completely wrong.

Sufis are not usually on "preaching Islam mission". The non-muslims gather around a sufi because a sufi has attraction of morals, actions and worship. The non muslims don't come to them to learn about islam or become muslims. They come to them because muslim sufis show humanity to everyone. Then if a non muslim himself shows interest to be like that Sufi, then the muslim sufi tells him about Islam.

You should clear your basic concepts before you continue mixing things up.

Lol. That's what I'm telling the people here. When Sufi's are not preaching any Islamic teaching then how they becomes Islamic? Just bcz they were born in a Muslim family?
Islam has strict laws and rules . when one is not following those rules strictly is not a Muslim. It is very simple to understand.
The confused soul is not me but you. I'm very clear with my point like crystal.

Scientific way??? Spiritualism impress our soul but science express with facts and figures both are different entity. Spiritualism is a middle way between religion and atheism!!! really??? another half baked story. First read about own religion and talk have you ever read about Shivam/Shavism. Do you know what is meant by agachamyee , Purachamyee , agapurachamayee , Purapurachamyaee those are classification of samyee the last one(Purapurachamyaee ) is nothing but atheism that also come under shivam. Read.............then you seek truth........

Read my all post and then come with a logic kid.

 

[Signalian]

Lol. That's what I'm telling the people here. When Sufi's are not preaching any Islamic teaching then how they becomes Islamic? Just bcz they were born in a Muslim family?
Islam has strict laws and rules . when one is not following those rules strictly is not a Muslim. It is very simple to understand.
The confused soul is not me but you. I'm very clear with my point like crystal.

I made it pretty straight forward for you but looks like you want to dwell in oblivion. That's your own choice actually.

From post 1, you want to live in an imaginary word where religion and spirituality are separate, well thats not happening and won't happen. This gets worse for you as your concepts of islam are very strange. Since you are not a muslim so at least learn from someone who is a muslim. makes sense ? I dont think even a straight forward concept can make sense to you so im not very hopeful in your case.

Your level of confusion demands a lot of understanding which you are not prepared to give.

 

[The SC]

Humans don't have a nature, they learn it from their surroundings, unlike all other creations that have a nature and act to a default instruction, humans and their brains are different they need guidance. You can read upon children who grew in wilderness and how they act, if they had a nature they would act like rest of civilised humans.

With what they learn it? You are borne with 5 senses and a brain.. you learn through them and they are your inherent nature..

 

[The BrOkEn HeArT]

I made it pretty straight forward for you but looks like you want to dwell in oblivion. That's your own choice actually.

From post 1, you want to live in an imaginary word where religion and spirituality are separate, well thats not happening and won't happen. This gets worse for you as your concepts of islam are very strange. Since you are not a muslim so at least learn from someone who is a muslim. makes sense ? I dont think even a straight forward concept can make sense to you so im not very hopeful in your case.

Your level of confusion demands a lot of understanding which you are not prepared to give.

I knew it very well before creating this thread that Muslim posters will come up with their offensive posts bcz it doesn't suit their religion when Sufism differentiate from Islam. But I don't want to turn this thread into a religious discussion.
And ya, I know the teaching of Islam too very well as I have studied it three long years. This is why I m able to discuss Islam at any form. But again PDF doesn't allow religious discussion , so I will not take further this religious debate on this thread.