Space Warfare, Technology and Exploration

[jamahir]

Our planet earth is duying and it wont take longer for it to take those last breaths after which we wont be able to breath on it (not saying we will die all, ofcourse many will survive but wont be able to breath the air, drink the water, eat the food).

If not the whole planet Earth then at least some cities will die. In 2016, the respectable institution IISc in Bangalore city said that this city will be unlivable in five years. Maybe they were a bit sensational in that news but from what I read, Bangalore is not quite the city of lakes and gardens it was said to be, 15 to 20 years ago.

The below picture is from 2016, about that study by IISc, and shows a lake with dead fish. Of course, human-created pollution is the cause :

That if you are really optimistic. I dont see such expeditions in near future. Not till 2050 atleast.

I disagree. I see basic Mars colonies by 2030, and asteroid mining 10 years from then.

Again. The current system took century atleast to come to the matyrity level it is in today.

What a few have come to realize is that pure Capitalism and blind consumerism, is not good for the ecology of Earth. People like Greta Thunberg may not yet be household names everywhere but at least policy makers have come to know of such things through her. For example, Pakistan has the Billion Tree Tsunami project.

About economics / money in the current system in many countries, I believe that "Money should be facility and not necessity" or in Urdu / Hindustani "Paisa sahulat hona chahiye, zaroorat nahin".

Even many Western nations have partial Socialistic economic systems, so there may have been development in different modes of Capitalism, I believe that Socialism will be adopted by near-future political systems ( nations ) because Socialism is the most harmonious with ecology.

 

[jamahir]

The last time carbon amount in atmosphere was at that 'figure mentioned in previous line" level..

Well, I meant what time-line he meant. Like before the last ice age or something like that.

 

[RealNapster]

If not the whole planet Earth then at least some cities will die. In 2016, the respectable institution IISc in Bangalore city said that this city will be unlivable in five years. Maybe they were a bit sensational in that news but from what I read, Bangalore is not quite the city of lakes and gardens it was said to be, 15 to 20 years ago.

The below picture is from 2016, about that study by IISc, and shows a lake with dead fish. Of course, human-created pollution is the cause

And chennai too. Really bad shape. Its already below sea level if i am not wrong.

I disagree. I see basic Mars colonies by 2030, and asteroid mining 10 years from then

Lets see. Theoritically i am supposed to last that long (if you consider the life expentency thing. Can't guarantee a minute in practical though) so we will see.

For example, Pakistan has the Billion Tree Tsunami project

Pakistan HAD billion tree Tsunami project. Completed much before 2017. Pakistan HAVE ten billion tree project inprocess. Deadline 2023.

About economics / money in the current system in many countries, I believe that "Money should be facility and not necessity" or in Urdu / Hindustani "Paisa sahulat hona chahiye, zaroorat nahin".

Even many Western nations have partial Socialistic economic systems, so there may have been development in different modes of Capitalism, I believe that Socialism will be adopted by near-future political systems ( nations ) because Socialism is the most harmonious with ecology.

But capitalism is not dead yet. It wont Allow socialism to take its place. But then i am not sure about the future and the environment it create for decision makers..

Well, I meant what time-line he meant. Like before the last ice age or something like that

Not sure about that. But i think it was before the ice age.

 

[jamahir]

Two interviews from the short-listed 100 people in the now-cancelled Mars One project :

1. Josh, a former Austrialian Special Forces member, talking to Mikolaj from Poland.

2. Josh and Dianne ( another short-listed person ) talking to a Professor Chris Daniels about various issues that will have be addressed before and during the Mars colonization. Prof. Daniels is not among the 100. The talk is quite practical in nature.

@Hamartia Antidote @KapitaanAli

@RealNapster @fitpOsitive, maybe you will find something to cheer about Mars colonization.

@Zibago, is there a vid game based on Mars colonization ??

 

[jamahir]

The seismicity of Mars

by Staff Writers
Zurich, Switzerland (SPX) Feb 25, 2020

.


On 26 November 2018, the NASA InSight lander successfully set down on Mars in the Elysium Planitia region. Seventy Martian days later, the mission's seismometer SEIS began recording the planet's vibrations. A team of researchers and engineers at ETH Zurich, led by ETH Professor Domenico Giardini, had delivered the SEIS control electronics and is responsible for the Marsquake Service. The latter is in charge for the daily interpretation of the data transmitted from Mars, in collaboration with the Swiss Seismological Service at ETH Zurich. Now, the journal Nature Geoscience published a series of articles on the results of the mission in the first months of operation on Mars.

As reported in these articles, InSight recorded 174 events until the end of September 2019. Since then, the measurements have continued leading to more than 450 observed marsquakes as of today, which have not yet been analysed in detail. This accounts for one event a day on average.

The data allows researchers observing how seismic waves travel through the planet and unveiling its internal characteristics - similar to how x-?rays are used in medical tomography. Before InSight landed, researchers had developed a wide range of possible models to represent the internal structure of the red planet. The recorded marsquakes, already after few months, enable refining the understanding of the structure of the planet and to reduce the uncertainties.

Interpreting marsquake data is challenging

Marsquakes are similar to the seismic events we see on Earth, although they are generally of smaller magnitude. The 174 registered marsquakes can be categorized in two families: One includes 24 low-?frequency events with magnitudes between 3 and 4, as documented in the papers, with waves propagating through the Martian mantle. A second family of marsquakes comprises 150 events with smaller magnitudes, shallower hypocentral depth and high frequency waves trapped in the Martian crust.

"Marsquakes have characteristics already observed on the Moon during the Apollo era, with a long signal duration (10 to 20 minutes) due to the scattering properties of the Martian crust", explains ETH Professor Giardini. In general, however, he says, interpreting marsquake data is very challenging and in most cases, it is only possible to identify the distance but not the direction from which the waves are arriving.

InSight landed on a thin, sandy layer

InSight opens a new era for planetary seismology. The SEIS performance exceeded so far expectations, considering the harsh conditions on Mars, characterized by temperatures ranging from minus 80 to 0 degrees Celsius every day and by strong wind oscillations. Indeed wind shakes the InSight lander and its instrumentation during the day leading to a high level of ambient noise.

However, at sunset, the winds calm down allowing recording the quietest seismic data ever collected in the solar system. As a result, most seismic events detected on Mars by SEIS occurred in the quiet night hours. The challenging environment also requires to carefully distinguishing between seismic events and signals originating from movements of the lander, other instruments or atmospheric-?induced perturbances.

The hammering by the HP3 instrument (another InSight experiment) and the close passage of whirlwinds (dust devils), recorded by SEIS, allow to map the physical properties of the shallow soil layers just below the station. We now know that SEIS landed on a thin, sandy layer reaching a few meters deep, in the middle of a 20 meter-?wide ancient impact crater. At greater depths, the Martian crust has properties comparable to Earth's crystalline massifs but appears to be more fractured. The propagation of the seismic waves suggest that the upper mantle has a stronger attenuation compared to the lower mantle.

Seismic activity also induced by tectonic stress

InSight landed in a rather quiet region of Mars, as no events near the station have been recorded up to now. The three biggest events were located in the Cerberus Fossae region about 1'500 km away. It is a tectonic graben system, caused by the weight of the Elysium Mons, the biggest volcano in the Elysium Planitia area. This provides strong evidence that seismic activity on Mars is not only a consequence of the cooling and therewith the shrinking of the planet but also induced by tectonic stress. The total seismic energy released on Mars lies between the one of Earth and of the Moon.

SEIS, complementary to other InSight measurements, also meaningfully contributed data to better understand the meteorological processes on Mars. The instrument's sensitivity to both wind and atmospheric pressure allowed identifying meteorological phenomena characteristic of Mars, including the many dust devils that pass by the spacecraft every afternoon.

 

[jamahir]

Anti-matter propulsion - Ryan Weed, CEO of Positron Dynamics. 2016.

 

[jamahir]

NASA picks SpaceX Falcon Heavy to launch Psyche mission to metal asteroid in 2022

By Samantha Mathewson 15 hours ago

NASA has contracted SpaceX to launch the agency's Psyche mission to a unique metal asteroid.

The $117 million Psyche mission will use one of SpaceX's Falcon Heavy rockets, and it is scheduled to launch from Launch Complex 39A at Cape Canaveral Air Force Station in Florida in July 2022.

asteroid named Psyche, which orbits the sun between Mars and Jupiter. Astronomers believe that studying this new asteroid will offer new clues about how terrestrial planets like Earth form, according to a statement from NASA.

A Falcon Heavy rocket lifts off from NASA's Kennedy Space Center on Feb. 6, 2018. (Image credit: SpaceX)

"The asteroid is considered unique, as it appears to largely be made of the exposed nickel-iron core of an early planet — one of the building blocks of our solar system," NASA officials said in the statement.

Rocky, terrestrial planets like Earth are believed to have a metallic core. However, it is difficult to observe or measure a planet's core directly because it lies far below a planet's mantle and crust.

By studying this unique asteroid up close, scientists hope to better understand the violent history of collisions and accretion that created terrestrial planets, according to the statement.

An artist's impression of NASA's Psyche mission orbiter near the metal-rich asteroid, named Psyche. (Image credit: NASA/JPL-Caltech/Arizona State Univ./Space Systems Loral/Peter Rubin)

The Psyche orbiter — named for the asteroid that it will study — will have five solar array panels, as well as power and propulsion systems that will allow the spacecraft to navigate to and orbit the asteroid. The scientific experiments that the spacecraft will perform are in the design and fabrication phase. Final assembly and testing of the craft is expected to begin early next year, according to NASA.

With the launch of the Psyche orbiter, the Falcon Heavy rocket will also carry two secondary payloads, including the Escape and Plasma Acceleration and Dynamics Explorers (EscaPADE) and a small satellite called Janus.

EscaPADE, a project led by the University of California, Berkeley, is designed to explore the atmosphere of Mars and the influence of solar wind. The Janus satellite, from the University of Colorado, will study binary asteroids, which are pairs of asteroids that orbit around each other and are believed to be some of the earliest objects in the solar system. EscaPADE and Janus were two of the finalists that NASA selected in 2018 as part of the agency's Small Innovative Missions for Planetary Exploration (SIMPLEx).

Follow Samantha Mathewson @Sam_Ashley13. Follow us on Twitter @Spacedotcom and on Facebook.

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There is a vid in the original article.

 

[jamahir]

Now this is discouraging or at least pessimistic.
---

Elon Musk fears he will die before SpaceX makes it to Mars

Anthony Cuthbertson
The Independent 2 days ago

Mars, Earth and the Moon in space - 3d render - elements of this image furnished by NASA: Getty Images/iStockphoto

Elon Musk's long-held ambition to journey to Mars may not be possible in his lifetime, the SpaceX boss has warned.

Speaking at the Satellite 2020 conference in Washington on Monday, Mr Musk told the audience that rapid progress was needed for Mars to be reached within the next few decades.

"The thing that concerns me most right now is that unless we improve our rate of innovation dramatically, there is no chance of a base on the moon or a city on Mars. This is my biggest concern," he said.

"If we don't improve our pace of progress, I'm definitely going to be dead before we go to Mars... If it's taken us 18 years just to get ready to do the first people to orbit, we've got to improve our rate of innovation or, based on past trends, I am definitely going to be dead before Mars."

The 48-year-old tech billionaire has previously spoken of his hope to visit the Red Planet. "I want to die on Mars," he said in a 2013 interview, "just not on impact."

In 2018, he estimated that there was a 70 per cent chance of him making it to Mars in a SpaceX craft, claiming that it could be possible as early as 2025.

SpaceX has been at the forefront of the innovation required to send humans to Mars, having developed the first reusable rockets capable of landing autonomously after launching a payload into space.

It is also in the process of building and testing the Mars-bound Starship space craft, which Musk hopes will be "rapidly reusable" and able to relaunch just one hour after landing.

Setting up a human colony on Mars, which is 34 million miles from Earth at its closest point, is part of SpaceX's overall objective. Musk has consistently stated that making humans a multi-planetary species is vital for our survival.

Mars represents the first step towards making this happen, however its harsh climate make it inhospitable for any potential human settlers. One way to overcome this, according to Musk, is to terraform the planet by blasting it with nuclear weapons in order to warm it up.

"It's a fixer upper of a planet," he told US TV host Stephen Colbert in 2014. "Eventually you can transform Mars into an Earth-like planet. You'd warm it up. There's a fast way and a slow way. The fast way is drop thermonuclear weapons over the poles."

The idea is that the nuclear bombs free up carbon dioxide into the atmosphere to make the air breathable, while also melting ice on the surface.

Experts are divided over whether this would work or not, with a 2019 study in Nature Astronomy suggesting that the explosions could throw up huge clouds that cause Mars to cool down even further.

Musk appears to be undeterred by such warnings. Official SpaceX merchandise includes a t-shirt with the slogan "Nuke Mars", and his Twitter banner image is a timelapse imagining what a terraformed Mars might look like.

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@Hamartia Antidote @ps3linux @k s ahmed

 

[jamahir]

Welcome, @humbl.

 

[Naofumi]

Are there any space-anime fans here? Someone who has watched Legend of galactic Heroes or Cowboy Bepop?

I want to make this earth great again.

And when was it great?

I see basic Mars colonies by 2030

I don't think so. The Apollo was a part of the space-race-to-save-the-face after that no government was ever serious to pump that much money into a leisure-thing-for-nerds.

“Why should we subsidize intellectual curiosity?” ― Ronald Reagan

Humans should not go beyond moon.

No, they should. A big migration can fundamentally alter our social structures, which I think would be interesting.

 

[Naofumi]

An Asteroid Named Psyche 16 Is Made Of Enough Gold To Make Everyone On Earth A Billionaire

That will make gold useless like Aluminium, gold have it's value because of it's scarcity. Heck, it even have no practical uses like Aluminium.

If Psyche 16 is indeed worth $700 quintillion, bringing it all to Earth could cause the entire global economy, now worth a mere $75.5 trillion, to totally collapse.

I don't think so, a readjustment for the sudden devaluation of gold will be the only thing that will happen. But of course, there will be great effect given the amount of foreign reserves are stored in the form of gold.

I think humans will devise a smart way to get rid of the "useless" gold by converting it to some strong currency.

 

[ps3linux]

Now this is discouraging or at least pessimistic.
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Elon Musk fears he will die before SpaceX makes it to Mars

Anthony Cuthbertson
The Independent 2 days ago

Mars, Earth and the Moon in space - 3d render - elements of this image furnished by NASA: Getty Images/iStockphoto

Elon Musk's long-held ambition to journey to Mars may not be possible in his lifetime, the SpaceX boss has warned.

Speaking at the Satellite 2020 conference in Washington on Monday, Mr Musk told the audience that rapid progress was needed for Mars to be reached within the next few decades.

"The thing that concerns me most right now is that unless we improve our rate of innovation dramatically, there is no chance of a base on the moon or a city on Mars. This is my biggest concern," he said.

"If we don't improve our pace of progress, I'm definitely going to be dead before we go to Mars... If it's taken us 18 years just to get ready to do the first people to orbit, we've got to improve our rate of innovation or, based on past trends, I am definitely going to be dead before Mars."

The 48-year-old tech billionaire has previously spoken of his hope to visit the Red Planet. "I want to die on Mars," he said in a 2013 interview, "just not on impact."

In 2018, he estimated that there was a 70 per cent chance of him making it to Mars in a SpaceX craft, claiming that it could be possible as early as 2025.

SpaceX has been at the forefront of the innovation required to send humans to Mars, having developed the first reusable rockets capable of landing autonomously after launching a payload into space.

It is also in the process of building and testing the Mars-bound Starship space craft, which Musk hopes will be "rapidly reusable" and able to relaunch just one hour after landing.

Setting up a human colony on Mars, which is 34 million miles from Earth at its closest point, is part of SpaceX's overall objective. Musk has consistently stated that making humans a multi-planetary species is vital for our survival.

Mars represents the first step towards making this happen, however its harsh climate make it inhospitable for any potential human settlers. One way to overcome this, according to Musk, is to terraform the planet by blasting it with nuclear weapons in order to warm it up.

"It's a fixer upper of a planet," he told US TV host Stephen Colbert in 2014. "Eventually you can transform Mars into an Earth-like planet. You'd warm it up. There's a fast way and a slow way. The fast way is drop thermonuclear weapons over the poles."

The idea is that the nuclear bombs free up carbon dioxide into the atmosphere to make the air breathable, while also melting ice on the surface.

Experts are divided over whether this would work or not, with a 2019 study in Nature Astronomy suggesting that the explosions could throw up huge clouds that cause Mars to cool down even further.

Musk appears to be undeterred by such warnings. Official SpaceX merchandise includes a t-shirt with the slogan "Nuke Mars", and his Twitter banner image is a timelapse imagining what a terraformed Mars might look like.

---

@Hamartia Antidote @ps3linux @k s ahmed

Seems more like a personal ambition rather than a calculated decision. Our technology is not developing fast enough so as to terraform a planet within the next couple of decades earth's surface area is 510.1 mn Km and that of Mars is 144.8 mn km, we are talking about 1/3 of earth and we did nothing to terraform the damn moon yet, hell we cant even convert the desert on earth without excessive efforts and ton loads of money and human resources. Mars has no atmosphere, it has no ozone layer to protect from solar radiation, no plants, no carbon dioxide, no oxygen conversion no water, no rivers fresh water, no salt water, no mechanism for rains, no bacteria/fungus to break down organic material in brief no flora/fauna and no eco system. We are looking at a project way beyond current technology and comprehension.

yes humans will make it to mars sooner, but will it be a livable planet soon I dont think so.

 

[jamahir]

I don't think so. The Apollo was a part of the space-race-to-save-the-face

I think the end-of-life of the International Space Station will invigorate USA, Russia, Europe and private groups like SpaceX to have Mars programs.

after that no government was ever serious to pump that much money into a leisure-thing-for-nerds.

Well, the nerds are also waiting for non-government programs like Mars One ( now sadly cancelled ) and for SpaceX.

You should listen to interview podcasts of some the short-listed 100 in Mars One, especially this one which has an interview with a Prof. Chris Daniels which is about the practical possibilities and problems that the Martians will face and what they have to do. I highly recommend this last interview.

On the Mars One website itself you will find short descriptions of the short-listed 100, including some from India.

No, they should. A big migration can fundamentally alter our social structures, which I think would be interesting.

Agreed.

As an example, Elon Musk has said that the near-future Mars colonies should be governed by Direct Democracy. I will add that to this a more advanced system would be Direct Democracy Socialism like was there in Libya until 2011.

That will make gold useless like Aluminium, gold have it's value because of it's scarcity. Heck, it even have no practical uses like Aluminium.

Gold is a good conductor of electricity.

I don't think so, a readjustment for the sudden devaluation of gold will be the only thing that will happen. But of course, there will be great effect given the amount of foreign reserves are stored in the form of gold.
View attachment 613042

The list does not have Libya which in 2011 was in the 23rd position having 143.8 tonnes.

I think humans will devise a smart way to get rid of the "useless" gold by converting it to some strong currency.

Perhaps.

Mars has no atmosphere

Technically, it has a minimal atmosphere, which is why past Mars rover missions needed heat shields for their descent into Martian atmosphere.

no carbon dioxide

But it has CO2. Most of its atmosphere is CO2 :

no plants

Hydroponics. I believe the ISS has had some success growing plants in zero gravity, so growing in Mars gravity with Mars CO2 and hydroponics would be of not much problem.

no water

The two water-ice caps on the two poles.

no rivers

IIRC, there was a report about finding of some seasonal flowing water flowing a crater.

no bacteria/fungus to break down organic material

About bacteria / fungus, unless we go there we will be generally unable to find out their presence.

 

[Naofumi]

Well, the nerds are also waiting for non-government programs like Mars One ( sadly cancelled ) and for SpaceX.

The Apollo is supposed to have costed 150 Billion Dollars (inflation adjusted), now how much do you estimate for establishing a colony? Any non-government entity have that much to spend? On Mars?

Gold is a good conductor of electricity.

Yup, maybe we will use it instead of copper when we trillions of tonnes of it as nearly free.

You should listen to interview podcasts of some the short-listed 100 in Mars One, especially this one which has an interview with a Prof. Chris Daniels which is about the practical possibilities and problems that the Martians will face and what they have to do. I highly recommend this last interview.

I will.

Direct Democracy.

What is so great about democracy? Taiwan, SK, Singapore did fine under authoritarianism. China is doing fine. And Libya was democratic? How?

 

[jamahir]

And Libya was democratic? How?

Firstly, I ask you to refer to this thread from 2015. It is a good description of how Libya worked.

Secondly, I ask you to read The Green Book which describes the theory followed in Libyan governance until the 2011 invasion. This theory was called the Jamahiriya or the Third Universal Theory.

The Libyan system was similar to the "Swaraj" theory propagated by the AAP and Swaraj Abhiyan movements in India. Yes, AAP seems to be leaning Right-wards but Swaraj is what they propagate.