South Korea President warns North Korea against Provaction

[NiceGuy]

Stop yelling about FB's CEO, only kids like you don't see it as a shame. Visiting Vietnam was just merely a trip for his holidays and you guys have your heart thumping like being visited by an Emperor.

BTW, what's the matter with Gambit, the "white boss" and the "pawn"?

At least his trip can help some poor VNese having few thousand Dollar for new year 2012 , why must I feel ashamed when poor VNese have money to buy new clothes and good food for new year ??

Gambit was VNese living in the South VN before 1975 , he belive that US came to VN to help his family to counter communism , in fact, US came to kill his family, kill president Ngo Dinh Diem and kill another Vnese plus US President Kenedy too and didn't care if they can stop communism or not. If US wanna do it, they could stop communism in VN from 1945 already.

 

[Star√ation]

Yes. According to YOUR convenient logic that anyone who opposed Ho and sought a foreign alliance was a 'traitor'. That mean Ho himself was a traitor since he allied himself with the Chinese and let them ran rampant throughout North Viet Nam, abusing and killing Viets with impunity, just like how he allowed French troops to kill other Viet nationalists with impunity. Only when they were done that independence from France mattered.

None of other traitors had the ability to bring Vietnam independence what we needed so desperately for. Only Ho did, that was the point.

Was that the only way? Am willing to bet you did not know of the UN trusteeship option proposed by the Americans.

What was going on with the "UN trusteeship option proposed by the Americans"? Could it in effect bring independence to Vietnam?

Then why do you care if the Americans were involved?

No one care the Americans, only when he dropped his bombs on our heads, only when he carried out the My Lai massacre.

Did the US 'stormed' into South Viet Nam just to kill Vietnamese? Or was it for something else?

Of course it did not.
But it does not chance the fact that millions Vietnamese were mass murdered by US troops. If you have ever watched some documentary films made by the American about My Lai, you gonna see that basically, US troops did not see us Vietnamese as human beings, it must be kind of inferior creatures or animals. Vietnam was a free-killing zone.

Posting those horrific images will not do away what you wanted us to accept for Ho, which is the excuse that war allowed certain latitude, from slaughtering fellow Viets to carpet bombings. Remember, am going by YOUR arguments.

I didn't try to persuade you to accept Ho. He did something well, he had some mistakes. He gets respected by some, hatred by some. I don't care, he was already dead.
Wasting time get busy around with a death man. Pardon me, I won't.

The monarchy type of rule for Viet Nam was effectively over by WW II's end. At best, the monarchy would have been a figurehead with the Prime Ministership or Premiership being the executive for the country. There was no need to bring in Communist China into Viet Nam but the moment Ho engaged in foreign alliances he opened wide the door for others to do the same. For that, Ho and the Viet Minh shares the equal blame for those horrific images.

That's true, it was Ho who brought foreign aids first that could led other parties follow his step. Without China help, the Viet Minh Army could do nothing other than being crusched at Dien Bien Phu.
But foreign aids, not troops. That was the key point. Ho was very wise not to invite the Soviet and Chinese troops. Diem was also so wise in that matter too, well, untill...
Oh, I could see something there. Diem did not listen to U.S's order, he got himself killed by CIA.
Ho did not listen to Chinese and Soviet order, he got himself being dead... many years later... on his bed... due to old age...

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

What was going on with the "UN trusteeship option proposed by the Americans"? Could it in effect bring independence to Vietnam?


No one care the Americans, only when he dropped his bombs on our heads, only when he carried out the My Lai massacre.



Of course it did not.
But it does not chance the fact that millions Vietnamese were mass murdered by US troops. If you have ever watched some documentary films made by the American about My Lai, you gonna see that basically, US troops did not see us Vietnamese as human beings, it must be kind of inferior creatures or animals. Vietnam was a free-killing zone.


I didn't try to persuade you to accept Ho. He did something well, he had some mistakes. He gets respected by some, hatred by some. I don't care, he was already dead.
Wasting time get busy around with a death man. Pardon me, I won't.


That's true, it was Ho who brought foreign aids first that could led other parties follow his step. Without China help, the Viet Minh Army could do nothing other than being crusched at Dien Bien Phu.
But foreign aids, not troops. That was the key point. Ho was very wise not to invite the Soviet and Chinese troops. Diem was also so wise in that matter too, well, untill...
Oh, I could see something there. Diem did not listen to U.S's order, he got himself killed by CIA.
Ho did not listen to Chinese and Soviet order, he got himself being dead... many years later... on his bed... due to old age...

For Gambit, Ho is still alive, in his heart, as the object of his hatred for kicking his rich plantation and slave owning family out of Vietnam. There are alot of these types.

Gambit has alot of hatred from the cold war stored up, it is limiting his ability to think rationally. Just so you know, his age is at least 40 (because he was in military service during Berlin Wall's fall) but he is apparently still unmarried. How many Vietnamese do you know that are still unmarried at age 40?

 

[Star√ation]

At least his trip can help some poor VNese having few thousand Dollar for new year 2012 , why must I feel ashamed when poor VNese have money to buy new clothes and good food for new year ??

There are millions of foreign visitors to Vietnam every year and you keep yelling the name of one guy. It is "thấy sang bắt quàng làm họ", isn't it?

Gambit was VNese living in the South VN before 1975 , he belive that US came to VN to help his family to counter communism , in fact, US came to kill his family kill president Ngo Dinh Diem and kill another Vnese plus US President Kenedy too and didn't care if they can stop communism or not. If US wanna do it, they could stop communism in VN from 1945 already.

Thanks for your answer. See that, I thought he was an American who have in-depth knowledge about Vietnam history and affair.

@Gambit: I think I must end our conversation here.
But before that, I gonna tell you something. My family lives in South Vietnam-Central Highland, before 1975 we worked for the South Vietnam government. One of my uncle is a former VNAF (South Vietnam Air Force) officer, other two uncles stationed in the 17th parallel to patrol the South Vietnam Flag Tower. We endured intense discrimination after 1975 for many years, we could not blame any other else than ourselves. Many one did every possible things to get out of Vietnam, but we did not choose to leave. All of my family, we love our motherland, love our country, we are Vietnamese. Many years later, all wounds of war have been healed, we're back to normal. I grow up in a socialist education system and be a senior student now.

So , due to that, I utterly dislike all Vietnamese who chose to leave, to abandon our motherland when it was in its most critical, most difficult time (a decade after 1975 was the darkest days for all Vietnamese people who live in Vietnam). OK, fine, you chose to pursue your dream. Then let's it be, forget Vietnam, become a good U.S citizen and live in happy. Why do part of you just keep worshiping a dead regime and try every thing to dis-stabilize Vietnam anyway? Want to drag the whole Vietnam back to hell for the sake of nothing other than to satisfy your crazy desire of taking revenge.

 

[Star√ation]

For Gambit, Ho is still alive, in his heart, as the object of his hatred for kicking his rich plantation and slave owning family out of Vietnam. There are alot of these types.

Gambit has alot of hatred from the cold war stored up, it is limiting his ability to think rationally. Just so you know, his age is at least 40 (because he was in military service during Berlin Wall's fall) but he is apparently still unmarried. How many Vietnamese do you know that are still unmarried at age 40?

There was no slave owner in Vietnam. And Ho did not kick anyone out of Vietnam.
One more, I don't find personal attack is fun. What is the matter with you when he is 40 or 400, married or unmarried. Is he your big brother or he supposes to be your father?

 

[gambit]

What was going on with the "UN trusteeship option proposed by the Americans"? Could it in effect bring independence to Vietnam?

Yes, I believe it would. Not in the time frame many would like, but it would have been far less bloody and you and I would never have this conversation. The Vietnam War was in effect caused by three players: The Viet Minh, France, and China.

No one care the Americans, only when he dropped his bombs on our heads, only when he carried out the My Lai massacre.

But no outrage over Viet Cong's atrocities? Let me guess, to you -- My Lai was the only atrocious thing happened.

Of course it did not.
But it does not chance the fact that millions Vietnamese were mass murdered by US troops. If you have ever watched some documentary films made by the American about My Lai, you gonna see that basically, US troops did not see us Vietnamese as human beings, it must be kind of inferior creatures or animals. Vietnam was a free-killing zone.

Did the Chinese saw the Viets as human beings, let alone equals? My grandfather said plenty about Chinese behaviors in North Viet Nam before he took the clan southward.

I didn't try to persuade you to accept Ho. He did something well, he had some mistakes. He gets respected by some, hatred by some. I don't care, he was already dead.
Wasting time get busy around with a death man. Pardon me, I won't.

The tacit idolatry given to him by you said otherwise.

That's true, it was Ho who brought foreign aids first that could led other parties follow his step. Without China help, the Viet Minh Army could do nothing other than being crusched at Dien Bien Phu.

If France was never invited back into North Viet Nam by Ho, may be Dien Bien Phu would never have happened?

But foreign aids, not troops. That was the key point. Ho was very wise not to invite the Soviet and Chinese troops. Diem was also so wise in that matter too, well, untill...

No troops? You mean no Soviet troops because there were hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops in North Viet Nam. In fact, it was alleged that the entire pilot corps of the North Vietnamese Air Force was Chinese. Did you know that Ho led a delegation to China to petition Mao to send Chinese COMBAT troops instead of just support troops? Mao made vague statements about communist solidarity and such but never did. Chinese troops continued to act as support, engineers, and air defense operators, the last pretty much made China an active COMBATANT in Viet Nam.

Oh, I could see something there. Diem did not listen to U.S's order, he got himself killed by CIA.
Ho did not listen to Chinese and Soviet order, he got himself being dead... many years later... on his bed... due to old age...

Bunk. Ho was more dependent upon China and the Soviets than Diem was to the Americans. And yes, that probably saved his @$$.

 

[gambit]

@Gambit: I think I must end our conversation here.
But before that, I gonna tell you something. My family lives in South Vietnam-Central Highland, before 1975 we worked for the South Vietnam government. One of my uncle is a former VNAF (South Vietnam Air Force) officer, other two uncles stationed in the 17th parallel to patrol the South Vietnam Flag Tower. We endured intense discrimination after 1975 for many years, we could not blame any other else than ourselves. Many one did every possible things to get out of Vietnam, but we did not choose to leave. All of my family, we love our motherland, love our country, we are Vietnamese. Many years later, all wounds of war have been healed, we're back to normal. I grow up in a socialist education system and be a senior student now.

So , due to that, I utterly dislike all Vietnamese who chose to leave, to abandon our motherland when it was in its most critical, most difficult time (a decade after 1975 was the darkest days for all Vietnamese people who live in Vietnam). OK, fine, you chose to pursue your dream. Then let's it be, forget Vietnam, become a good U.S citizen and live in happy. Why do part of you just keep worshiping a dead regime and try every thing to dis-stabilize Vietnam anyway? Want to drag the whole Vietnam back to hell for the sake of nothing other than to satisfy your crazy desire of taking revenge.

My family's name was on the communist blacklist long before 1975. My grandparents thought that so many years passed since grandpa's time as a bureaucrat in northern Viet Nam the communists would leave them alone. They were wrong. Both died under torture in the same boarding school I grew up in Thủ Đức. The communists converted a school into a torture/reeducation center. Years later, when we returned to try to find their remains to give them a proper burial, the communists gave us animal bones. We found out that such was normal practice. So yes, nurture your hatred for those of us who left and continue to worship the man who started it all: Ho Chi Minh.

 

[NiceGuy]

My family's name was on the communist blacklist long before 1975. My grandparents thought that so many years passed since grandpa's time as a bureaucrat in northern Viet Nam the communists would leave them alone. They were wrong. Both died under torture in the same boarding school I grew up in Thủ Đức. The communists converted a school into a torture/reeducation center. Years later, when we returned to try to find their remains to give them a proper burial, the communists gave us animal bones. We found out that such was normal practice. So yes, nurture your hatred for those of us who left and continue to worship the man who started it all: Ho Chi Minh.

So you must blame US-UK first bcz they supported France to enslave VN and forced HCM joined communism again, in order to kick France out.

The Geneva accords also provided for a national election to reunify the country in 1956, but this was rejected by Ngo Dinh Diem’s government and the United States.[38] The U.S government committed itself to contain the spread of communism in Asia beginning in 1950, when they funded 80 percent of the French effort

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ho_Chi_Minh
Without US-UK support, France was just a Dead meat , and never could affort to come back to VN after WW 2, and of course, HCM wouldn't need communism support to kill this dead meat.

No troops? You mean no Soviet troops because there were hundreds of thousands of Chinese troops in North Viet Nam. In fact, it was alleged that the entire pilot corps of the North Vietnamese Air Force was Chinese. Did you know that Ho led a delegation to China to petition Mao to send Chinese COMBAT troops instead of just support troops? Mao made vague statements about communist solidarity and such but never did. Chinese troops continued to act as support, engineers, and air defense operators, the last pretty much made China an active COMBATANT in Viet Nam.

No Chinese COMBAT troops, they only worked in Logistic squad , and they didn't kill any VNese.

 

[Star√ation]

My family's name was on the communist blacklist long before 1975. My grandparents thought that so many years passed since grandpa's time as a bureaucrat in northern Viet Nam the communists would leave them alone. They were wrong. Both died under torture in the same boarding school I grew up in Thủ Đức. The communists converted a school into a torture/reeducation center. Years later, when we returned to try to find their remains to give them a proper burial, the communists gave us animal bones. We found out that such was normal practice. So yes, nurture your hatred for those of us who left and continue to worship the man who started it all: Ho Chi Minh.

It's said to hear about your grandparents. It's a part of war.
My grandpa got caught and tortured too, by South Vietnam police ironically, only being released when my uncle came and rescue. The torture had severely damaged his health that caused him had to suffer so hard during his last years.
My mom studied in Thủ Đức for a while, my uncle were trained there and I also spent a short time study there. My mom told me that in her time, Thủ Đức was much like countryside, nowadays it hosts many key industrial zones of HCM city.

That's it. I'm lack interest in talking with an oversea Vietnamese.
Hope you and your family have a good life there. Good days, good time and good luck.

 

[S10]

So tell everyone, if you are in trouble overseas, who would you call, Canada or China?

You do know Chinese government has an agency set up to assist foreign Chinese right? Even without Chinese citizenship, I can still walk into a Chinese embassy for help. You on the other hand, don't even have a place to call your native land since South Vietnam got its pipes cleaned.