South Korea begins military drill near Takeshima

[Raphael]

South Korea begins military drill near Takeshima -NHK WORLD English-

The South Korean navy has begun a live-fire drill off the Takeshima Islands in the Sea of Japan despite Japan's demand that it be canceled. Japan says the drill is being carried out in an area that includes its territorial waters.

Japan claims the South Korea-controlled islands.

A South Korean defense spokesperson said on Friday that the drill is going ahead as planned.

South Korea had earlier said the live-fire drill would take place between 9 AM and 5 PM on Friday. A navigation warning was issued for an area stretching 150 by 55 kilometers southwest of the islands.

The official said South Korea will not consider any demand or permit any interference with a military exercise conducted for self-defense.

The South Korean navy has called the drill part of its regular exercises, and said it is being conducted on the high seas more than 12 nautical miles from the islands.

Last October, South Korea's army, navy and air force held a joint drill at the islands designed to counter a possible landing of rightist civilians there.

Japan's top government spokesman, Yoshihide Suga, said on Friday the South Korean drill is totally unacceptable in light of Japan's sovereignty over the Takeshima Islands.

He said the drill is extremely regrettable as Japan has been strongly urging South Korea to cancel it, including through higher-level officials.

The Japanese government maintains the islands are an inherent part of Japan's territory. It says South Korea is occupying them illegally.

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'Takeshima', as the NHK calls it, refers to Korean-administered 'Dokdo'. Japan has issued protest to the Korean drills:

Japan warns of S.Korea firing drill near Takeshima -NHK WORLD English-

 

[Aepsilons]

 

[Tshering22]

I had heard a few months ago that Japan and Korea had decided to cooperate in defense sector and develop stronger ties between the two countries' militaries.

Is it true that there are confidence building measures taking place between Seoul and Tokyo?

 

[Aepsilons]

I had heard a few months ago that Japan and Korea had decided to cooperate in defense sector and develop stronger ties between the two countries' militaries.

Is it true that there are confidence building measures taking place between Seoul and Tokyo?

Their current administration is plagued by incompetence. We had planned a trilateral defense cooperation between Japan, the United States and Seoul. They they decided to up the game on resurfacing old wartime instances, per se the issue of the comfort women. It is they, the Koreans who are resorting to building walls with us. The likes of which are seen in China.

If you notice or read into Korean and Chinese politics, @Tshering22 , they resuscitate the wartime issues whenever it is convenient for them. For God's sake, its been almost 70 years since the end of the war.

It is a political tool. The current government in Korea is plagued with rising unpopularity because of their ferry incident, poor decision making that has led to the depreciation of their currency to the dollar, falling exports,...so what can they do to gain some support of the population ? by distracting them with nationalist sentiment....

Typical koreans who blame everything on the 'Ilbon-i"....

 

[IsaacNewton]

Their current administration is plagued by incompetence. We had planned a trilateral defense cooperation between Japan, the United States and Seoul. They they decided to up the game on resurfacing old wartime instances, per se the issue of the comfort women. It is they, the Koreans who are resorting to building walls with us. The likes of which are seen in China.

If you notice or read into Korean and Chinese politics, @Tshering22 , they resuscitate the wartime issues whenever it is convenient for them. For God's sake, its been almost 70 years since the end of the war.

It is a political tool. The current government in Korea is plagued with rising unpopularity because of their ferry incident, poor decision making that has led to the depreciation of their currency to the dollar, falling exports,...so what can they do to gain some support of the population ? by distracting them with nationalist sentiment....

Typical koreans who blame everything on the 'Ilbon-i"....

Isn't blaming all the tension in Japan-Korean relation on the Korean side a bit too shallow of an analysis?
As the great Deng Xiao Ping once said "seek truth from facts" (it is actually from the book of Han), try to see deeper into what the Koreans are dissatisfied about (as oppose to just comfort women issue which is vague and doesn't offer any insights into the dispute).

There was a sharp deterioration ever since Abe took office, and I think the domestic politics of the Abe administration is an issue.
For start it is not just the Korean side that is bringing up the issue of WW2, it is also the Japanese politicians who wanted to reinterpret the role of Japan in that war so that Japan is seen in a better light.

In doing so, Abe visited yasukuni, questioned whether the war was really a war of aggression on Japanese part, and wanted to undo past apologies (saying unsorry?) made by previous prime ministers.

 

[Aepsilons]

Isn't blaming all the tension in Japan-Korean relation on the Korean side a bit too shallow of an analysis?
As the great Deng Xiao Ping once said "seek truth from facts" (it is actually from the book of Han), try to see deeper into what the Koreans are dissatisfied about (as oppose to just comfort women issue which is vague and doesn't offer any insights into the dispute).

There was a sharp deterioration ever since Abe took office, and I think the domestic politics of the Abe administration is an issue.
For start it is not just the Korean side that is bringing up the issue of WW2, it is also the Japanese politicians who wanted to reinterpret the role of Japan in that war so that Japan is seen in a better light.

In doing so, Abe visited yasukuni, questioned whether the war was really a war of aggression on Japanese part, and wanted to undo past apologies (saying unsorry?) made by previous prime ministers.

Abe is maintaining continuity, Prime Ministers before him visited the state shrine, even the loved Koizumi. The point is, the Kankukojin (Koreans) are very fond of bringing up historical issues when it suits them.

They are very predictable.

Isn't blaming all the tension in Japan-Korean relation on the Korean side a bit too shallow of an analysis?
As the great Deng Xiao Ping once said "seek truth from facts" (it is actually from the book of Han), try to see deeper into what the Koreans are dissatisfied about (as oppose to just comfort women issue which is vague and doesn't offer any insights into the dispute).

There was a sharp deterioration ever since Abe took office, and I think the domestic politics of the Abe administration is an issue.
For start it is not just the Korean side that is bringing up the issue of WW2, it is also the Japanese politicians who wanted to reinterpret the role of Japan in that war so that Japan is seen in a better light.

In doing so, Abe visited yasukuni, questioned whether the war was really a war of aggression on Japanese part, and wanted to undo past apologies (saying unsorry?) made by previous prime ministers.

The Japan side wants to build positive relations, we want to have a cooperative environment wherein we work together with both Kankukojin and Chugokojin (Koreans and Chinese) in the region.

 

[IsaacNewton]

Abe is maintaining continuity, Prime Ministers before him visited the state shrine, even the loved Koizumi. The point is, the Kankukojin (Koreans) are very fond of bringing up historical issues when it suits them.

They are very predictable.

There was also a sharp deterioration during Koizumi era.

I think you missed my point. The attitude that you employ (Koreans are to be blamed - they are using historical issues for their own domestic politics) is counterproductive because it is a shallow analysis and does not bring greater insight into the dispute. Rather try to see the arguments from both side of the dispute and seek truth from facts.

 

[Tshering22]

Their current administration is plagued by incompetence. We had planned a trilateral defense cooperation between Japan, the United States and Seoul. They they decided to up the game on resurfacing old wartime instances, per se the issue of the comfort women. It is they, the Koreans who are resorting to building walls with us. The likes of which are seen in China.

If you notice or read into Korean and Chinese politics, @Tshering22 , they resuscitate the wartime issues whenever it is convenient for them. For God's sake, its been almost 70 years since the end of the war.

It is a political tool. The current government in Korea is plagued with rising unpopularity because of their ferry incident, poor decision making that has led to the depreciation of their currency to the dollar, falling exports,...so what can they do to gain some support of the population ? by distracting them with nationalist sentiment....

Typical koreans who blame everything on the 'Ilbon-i"....

But what can be done to change the past? How can the present Japanese be blamed for something that happened 70 years ago? They were not even born then!

Mr. Lee Myung Bak's government was far more welcoming and trade-friendly from what I remember and having visited Korea, I found Koreans very far sighted people.

Perhaps, our Korean friends should be careful of a Manmohan Singh-style government which can take their otherwise wonderful country down.

 

[Aepsilons]

There was also a sharp deterioration during Koizumi era.

I think you missed my point. The attitude that you employ (Koreans are to be blamed - they are using historical issues for their own domestic politics) is counterproductive because it is a shallow analysis and does not bring greater insight into the dispute. Rather try to see the arguments from both side of the dispute and seek truth from facts.

I see your point perfectly well, but I am merely shedding input that the Koreans have the propensity to divulge their emotionality in politics. They are known to jeopardize collectivism to address and voice out historical grievances, which , according to us, have already been addressed.

Japan has held out our hand to work with Korea, to develop joint military patrols, it is they who cancelled the planned operation. Not us.

We still are optimistic, tho.

 

[Aepsilons]

But what can be done to change the past? How can the present Japanese be blamed for something that happened 70 years ago? They were not even born then!

Mr. Lee Myung Bak's government was far more welcoming and trade-friendly from what I remember and having visited Korea, I found Koreans very far sighted people.

Perhaps, our Korean friends should be careful of a Manmohan Singh-style government which can take their otherwise wonderful country down.

Yes, precisely my point. It is unfair for anyone to blame younger generations for the mistakes of their ancestors.

It would be the same as how some Jews will hate anything German because of the Nazis. Such myopic viewpoint should be corrected.

 

[IsaacNewton]

I see your point perfectly well, but I am merely shedding input that the Koreans have the propensity to divulge their emotionality in politics. They are known to jeopardize collectivism to address and voice out historical grievances, which , according to us, have already been addressed.

Based on my observation, this seems to be the heart of the issue.
Japan thinks the historical issue is fully settled, Korea does not.

But why do Koreans think the historical issue is not resolved. Does Japanese domestic politics also play a role? Try too see when Japan-Korean relations were good (Nakashone era), how was the domestic politics of japan different?

 

[Aepsilons]

Based on my observation, this seems to be the heart of the issue.
Japan thinks the historical issue is fully settled, Korea does not.

But why do Koreans think the historical issue is not resolved. Does Japanese domestic politics also play a role? Try too see when Japan-Korean relations were good (Nakashone era), how was the domestic politics of japan different?

It is only recently that the Koreans have been vocal of their objection of any Japanese to visit the shinto shrine. Prime Ministers in the past have been visiting it even immediately after the war. They would want us to change the very character of Japan, which places sovereign importance on giving homage to the spirits of ancestors. This will never happen. And the Koreans and others who have an issue with this, must learn to understand that Japan is a confucian society, it places importance on filial piety, and giving honor to those who have died.

We believe we have already apologized enough for the mistakes of our wartime past. And we should leave the past in the past.

This is our view.

 

[Tshering22]

It is only recently that the Koreans have been vocal of their objection of any Japanese to visit the shinto shrine. Prime Ministers in the past have been visiting it even immediately after the war. They would want us to change the very character of Japan, which places sovereign importance on giving homage to the spirits of ancestors. This will never happen. And the Koreans and others who have an issue with this, must learn to understand that Japan is a confucian society, it places importance on filial piety, and giving honor to those who have died.

We believe we have already apologized enough for the mistakes of our wartime past. And we should leave the past in the past.

This is our view.

Tell me something: this Yasukuni shrine is a shrine to honour your fallen soldiers right?

It is built inside Japanese territory right?

Then why does everyone have a problem with your PMs visiting it outside your country? The shrine also honours those who protected Japan from Allied invasion, not just those who had conquered eastern Asia.

It is like saying PM Modi cannot visit Amar Jawan Jyoti (the Flame of Immortal Soldier) monument that honours our fallen soldiers just because Pakistan objected it.

WTF?

 

[IsaacNewton]

It is only recently that the Koreans have been vocal of their objection of any Japanese to visit the shinto shrine. Prime Ministers in the past have been visiting it even immediately after the war. They would want us to change the very character of Japan, which places sovereign importance on giving homage to the spirits of ancestors. This will never happen. And the Koreans and others who have an issue with this, must learn to understand that Japan is a confucian society, it places importance on filial piety, and giving honor to those who have died.

We believe we have already apologized enough for the mistakes of our wartime past. And we should leave the past in the past.

This is our view.

While understanding your own view is important, understanding your opponent's view is also important.

From what I see, the problem with Yasukuni shrine is not the war criminals, it is the museum adjacent to it (which supports an erroneous narrative of history). Visiting the shrine is hence taken as supporting a revisionist view of history (hence the historical issue is not resolved).

 

[Aepsilons]

Tell me something: this Yasukuni shrine is a shrine to honour your fallen soldiers right?

It is built inside Japanese territory right?

Then why does everyone have a problem with your PMs visiting it outside your country? The shrine also honours those who protected Japan from Allied invasion, not just those who had conquered eastern Asia.

It is like saying PM Modi cannot visit Amar Jawan Jyoti (the Flame of Immortal Soldier) monument that honours our fallen soldiers just because Pakistan objected it.

WTF?

Yes. The Yasukuni shrine honors all the soldiers of Japan's past that have died defending the country. It was actually built in the late 19th century. It honors soldiers of the Bakufuzo (Shogunate), and soldiers of the Japanese Empire who died fighting in the Russo-Japanese War , 1st and 2nd Sino-Japanese Wars, and of course the Great Pacific War.

What do they want? For us not to give obeiscance to the spirits of our noble warriors who died defending the Japanese Empire?

This is why we will not relent.

While understanding your own view is important, understanding your opponent's view is also important.

From what I see, the problem with Yasukuni shrine is not the war criminals, it is the museum adjacent to it (which supports an erroneous narrative of history). Visiting the shrine is hence taken as supporting a revisionist view of history (hence the historical issue is not resolved).

What some consider 'glorification of the past' , we consider it giving homage and respect to their great sacrifice.

My grand uncles , all of whom died serving in the Imperial Japanese Navy, died fighting against the Americans.

And all of them went down with their destroyers that they served in. Their spirits are there in that shrine.

Many Japanese of the younger generation go to that shrine to visit their relatives who died in the war, and never came home. Whose bodies were lost to the jungles, to the seas.

This is, to us, also an emotional issue. But we do not wail about it openly as some people.