South China Sea Forum

[ViXuyen]

A Third party can shed new light on historical events.


Taylor has a PHD and BA in History something which you lack.

What outrageous claims,Nationalistic Vietnamese can't accept that the Sincized Kinh welcomed the Ming while the unruly Trai didn't.

You claim Ming Shi said this Ming shi said that then quote the Hanzi if you can read it.

All this is coming from someone who thinks Dong Song civilized the Chinese,when in fact Vietnamese were the ones to copy surnames,script,language,architecture,customs,government etc.

Calling other people chinaman,idiot,stupid,confushit, while I never called Vietanmese member Vietcong,Monkey etc only trolls.

Failed logic. Taylor has a PHD does not mean he is not susceptible to lying. I already busted him for making too many facts already. Are you his accomplice?

LOL, ViXuyen is claiming that both Western historians and the French in 1884 were liars, since they said China did it and that French were defeated at Bang Bo (Zhennan Pass).

The Cambridge History of China - Google Books

Throne and Mandarins: China's Search for a Policy During the Sino-French ... - Lloyd E. Eastman - Google Books

http://books.google.com/books?id=j1aGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA87&dq=the June 1884 Baclé incident is perhaps the most well known of the Chinese military victories&hl=en&sa=X&ei=paldU__fOcbjsATvxIG4Cw&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=the June 1884 Baclé incident is perhaps the most well known of the Chinese military victories&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=j1aGAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA88&dq=Spurred on by their defeat at Baclé, the French decided to blockade the Chinese island of Taiwan (Formosa). Beginning on 5 August 1884, Admiral Lespes bombarded Taiwan's forts at Jilong (Keelung) Harbor on the northeast coast&hl=en&sa=X&ei=16hdU-feAdfNsQTmxIH4DA&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Spurred on by their defeat at Baclé, the French decided to blockade the Chinese island of Taiwan (Formosa). Beginning on 5 August 1884, Admiral Lespes bombarded Taiwan's forts at Jilong (Keelung) Harbor on the northeast coast&f=false

Modern Chinese Warfare, 1795-1989 - Bruce A. Elleman - Google Books

According to ViXuyen, these historians with PHD and who taught as Professors at Western universities are all liars.

New book explores history of the Vietnamese | Cornell Chronicle

Keith Weller Taylor - Department of Asian Studies

John King Fairbank | Fairbank Center

Denis Crispin Twitchett (British historian) -- Encyclopedia Britannica

U.S. Naval War College |
Bruce A. Elleman

Dr Tana Li - Researchers - ANU

Tani Li,,, Keith Taylor both are joe blow historians and I already busted their lying. The Ming had to reinforce 100k from Guangxi, 50k from Yunnan in addition to the 100k already in Vietnam at that time and they still lost badly. Eventually, 100k had to surrender. It was total defeat and humiliation by the Ming in Vietnam; deal with it, my friend.

 

[bolo]

I only see u guys bitch about how strong your navy is but up till this point, you still have not had the balls to attack us, not even back in 2000's when we were so WEAK.

If someone is hung like a horse, does he have to be in ****?

 

[Wholegrain]

Failed logic. Taylor has a PHD does not mean he is not susceptible to lying. I already busted him for making too many facts already. Are you his accomplice?


Tani Li,,, Keith Taylor both are joe blow historians and I already busted their lying. The Ming had to reinforce 100k from Guangxi, 50k from Yunnan in addition to the 100k already in Vietnam at that time and they still lost badly. Eventually, 100k had to surrender. It was total defeat and humiliation by the Ming in Vietnam; deal with it, my friend.

Another western Professor who says Le Loi and most of his men were Muong, and also says most Vietnamese were loyal to the Ming. ViXuyen thinks she is smarter than all these historians with Phds who are Professors at Universities.

Strange Parallels: Southeast Asia in Global Context, C. 800 - 1830 - Victor B. Lieberman - Google Books

On the other hand, there is little evidence that Le Loi's movement ever championed specific cultural attributes. Le Loi himself, one of the toweringheroes of Vietnamese history, was in origin almost certainly not Vietnamese, but Muong............. Le Loi's decisive push against the Ming in 1424 relied on people from the Ca River basin, the bulk of whom were probably Muong by current usage.103 ..............Conversely, insofar as they remained loyal to the Ming to the bitter end in 1427, many, perhaps most of Vietnamese-speakers who could understand Nguyen Trai refused to endorse his vision. While these Dong Kinh literati have left no apologia, we may assume that personal advantage and humane sensibility alike continued to demand their allegiance to the Ming court, epicenter of civilization.

https://www.lsa.umich.edu/history/people/ci.liebermanvictorb_ci.detail

The reason Le Loi needed Nguyen Trai, who was Kinh, was because Le Loi and his Muong and other followers needed someone who could write pro-Confucian propaganda to Kinh people and get them to stop supporting the Ming.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

 

[sincity]

Historical fact won't redrawn the current map of Viet Nam or China, what the point to discuss history between Viet Nam or China. Wasting time to drag me into this kind of discussion.

 

[ViXuyen]

Another western Professor who says Le Loi and most of his men were Muong, and also says most Vietnamese were loyal to the Ming. ViXuyen thinks she is smarter than all these historians with Phds who are Professors at Universities.

Strange Parallels: Southeast Asia in Global Context, C. 800 - 1830 - Victor B. Lieberman - Google Books



https://www.lsa.umich.edu/history/people/ci.liebermanvictorb_ci.detail

Are you trying to defend your books, eh? Taylor....

I don't care what these historians claim. Primary Viet sources never mention Le Loi was a Muong or not; let alone there were Vietnamese who supported the Ming. Where in Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu that mention otherwise? Obviously, these historians were quoting 100% from Chinese sources or they're making up lies thinking that no one can catch them. A total of 250k Ming troops were crushed in Vietnam; a total military disaster that no matter whatever you do to twist it; it was enshined in Mingshi.

 

[Wholegrain]

Are you trying to defend your books, eh? Taylor....

I don't care what these historians claim. Primary Viet sources never mention Le Loi was a Muong or not; let alone there were Vietnamese who supported the Ming. Where in Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu that mention otherwise? Obviously, these historians were quoting 100% from Chinese sources or they're making up lies thinking that no one can catch them. A total of 250k Ming troops were crushed in Vietnam; a total military disaster that no matter whatever you do to twist it; it was enshined in Mingshi.

Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu was propaganda written by Le Dynasty commissioned Confucian historian Ngo Si Lien. The Le dynasty wanted to create a seperate history for the Kinh people as a distinct ethnic group, so they hired Ngo Si Lien to manufacture history like the Hung Kings, stretching Vietnmese civilization back 4,000 years and claiming that Vietnamese are descended from Emperor Shennong to make Vietnamese seem older than China.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to ... - Ben Kiernan - Google Books

 

[Nike]

Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu was propaganda written by Le Dynasty commissioned Confucian historian Ngo Si Lien. The Le dynasty wanted to create a seperate history for the Kinh people as a distinct ethnic group, so they hired Ngo Si Lien to manufacture history like the Hung Kings, stretching Vietnmese civilization back 4,000 years and claiming that Vietnamese are descended from Emperor Shennong to make Vietnamese seem older than China.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to ... - Ben Kiernan - Google Books

Your ava is creepy it kinda give me some bumps

 

[ViXuyen]

Dai Viet Su Ky Toan Thu was propaganda written by Le Dynasty commissioned Confucian historian Ngo Si Lien. The Le dynasty wanted to create a seperate history for the Kinh people as a distinct ethnic group, so they hired Ngo Si Lien to manufacture history like the Hung Kings, stretching Vietnmese civilization back 4,000 years and claiming that Vietnamese are descended from Emperor Shennong to make Vietnamese seem older than China.

A History of the Vietnamese - K. W. Taylor - Google Books

Blood and Soil: A World History of Genocide and Extermination from Sparta to ... - Ben Kiernan - Google Books

Yeah, one of the most respectable contemporary Viet sources is considered as "propaganda". Sure, buddy. We believe in our history written by our contemporary figures than some joe blow historians who make up historical "facts about us

 

[cirr]

Do more，talk less。

China has turned Chiguajiao （Johnson South reef）、Huayangjiao（Cuarteron Reef）and Dongmenjiao（Hughes Reef）into giant construction sites。

Chiguajiao in early April 2014

The satellite image shows a 300m X 400m white patch for the newly reclaimed land。In a couple of years Chiguajiao will be renamed Chiguadao（Chigua Island）with the size of Zhongyedao（Thitu Island）

 

[ViXuyen]

We don't talk about it, just do.

Construction of a port on Sinh Ton island (Sin Cowe island)

 

[cirr]

China has adopted a strategy of attrition。

It will make operations in the SCS so expensive for Vietnam and the Philippines that continuing so will exact a heavy toll on their economy。

Let's play the game for the next 100 years。

 

[cirr]

New “toy“ launched on 27.04.2014:

to keep a close watch on the thieves and rascals in the SCS。

 

[Grand Historian]

Yeah, one of the most respectable contemporary Viet sources is considered as "propaganda". Sure, buddy. We believe in our history written by our contemporary figures than some joe blow historians who make up historical "facts about us

Ngo Si Lien quoted from a book of fairy tales,yet Ling Nam chich quai quotes from nothing showing that part of the Dai Viet su ky toan thu is full of fabrications.

Yes it is propaganda,Dai Viet sought to project a history rivaling China and in the process they made up the myth of the Hung Kings and Van Lang which survive to this day.

 

[Beast]

You are no need to make yourself comfortable here. Just check the every news about SCS in the local Chinese website. What China government's attitude on this area has been insulted and laughed by nearly every Chinese people. Everyday show how strong the economy is, how fine the weapon are. So what? Dare China do what Russia dare to do? So what? Now the poor Vietnam has occupied most of islands, dare you take them back? Philippines, whatever you guys call them bitch or poor country, or monkey country, JUST use an old tiny ship, Philippines can stay there and have lived there more than 10 years! So tell me the meaning of the nice weapon and strong economy? If every Island belongs to China, why not take them back like what UK did in Folkland?, like Russia did in Georgia and Crimea? Affraid of USA's punishment? Russia did! So what?

Are you trying to instigate violence and war? Precisely, China not firing the first shot shows, China is a peaceful country as for your twisted theory you seems like.mocking USA. USN equipped with 11 CVN darr not even moved against russian navy with no carrier at the movement in Ukarine. So by your theory. USN shall close down?

 

[ViXuyen]

Work in progress at Da Tay island (West Reef)