South China Sea Forum

[Soryu]

Watch the Viets, Pinoys, Japs cry about this. SCS and ECS is our pond.

Well, sorry kid, instead, we will laugh for that.

After the merger, all of its vessels would likely be armed, since the new agency is paramilitary in nature instead of a civilian department. The new agency will be named China Maritime Police.

It's easier for us when we point our gun at warships.

 

[Skyman]

Watch until we self produce en masse submarines and surface warships, and then we both will have more fun.



MAR 6, 2013
"Russia agreed on Tuesday to help train the navy and build new ships for Vietnam as defense ministers of the two Cold War allies held talks in Hanoi, which is seeking to counterbalance China’s maritime influence in the region, Radio Free Asia reports. Vietnamese Defense Minister General Phung Quang Thanh told reporters after the talks with his Russian counterpart Sergei Shoigu that Hanoi will also continue to buy military equipment from Moscow."

You are only looking at once side of the equation. Go read what we are producing.
• 36 new cutters by 2015 for Marine Surveillance.
• 80+ type 022 missile boats already in service.
• 30+ type 056 corvettes with strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities.
• 20+ type 054A frigates and in the future type 054B frigate.
• 10+ type 052D destroyers and 6 type 052C destroyers.
• 10+ type 055 cruisers (12,000 tons with 128 VLS) construction to start this year.
• 7 type 041 submarine with AIP already constructed (many more to be constructed).
• 12 type 095 nuclear attack submarine to be constructed (2 already constructed).
• 3 type 071 LPDs (20,000 tons) in service and more to be constructed (8-10 LPDs eventually).
• 6 type 075 LHD (40,000 tons) to be constructed.
• 6 aircraft carriers to be constructed (2 conventional 60,000 tons and 4 nuclear 100,000 tons)

China is the largest shipbuilder, we can produce ships at will because of our massive industrial might and our manufacturing capabilities. We have the vast amounts of money needed, we have the talent pool (engineers and scientists), we have a large workforce, and the political will to make sure the South China Sea and East China Sea is our pond!

 

[Skyman]

Yeah, you are to receive some modern patrol ships from Japan, right?
Make them wet.

The difference is, Viets and Pinoys have to import your ships whereas we can make our own ships. Even IF you miraculously manage to sink our ships , we can quickly produce more ships. WHEN we sink your limited number of ships, you have no more since you don't have the industrial might like we do.
Not only can we make large ships but we can make them quickly too. That's a game changer.
Even a shrimp like Japan is scared and you think baby shrimps like Viets and Pinoys have ANY chance?
Even when our navy was small and outdated we still humiliated your navy in 1974 and 1988.
This is a different era kid.

 

[Soryu]

You are only looking at once side of the equation. Go read what we are producing.
• 36 new cutters by 2015 for Marine Surveillance.
• 30+ type 056 corvettes with strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities.
• 80+ type 022 missile boats already in service.
• 20+ type 054A frigates and in the future type 054B frigate.
• 10+ type 052D destroyers and 6 type 052C destroyers.
• 10+ type 055 cruisers (12,000 tons with 128 VLS) construction to start this year.
• 7 type 041 submarine with AIP already constructed (many more to be constructed).

China is the largest shipbuilder, we can produce ships at will because of our massive industrial might and our manufacturing capabilities. We have the vast amounts of money needed, we have the talent pool (engineers and scientists), we have a large workforce, and the political will to make sure the South China Sea and East China Sea is our pond!

LOL, So many young people in China just crying about military power, but I wonder how many people was ready gone to battles if the wars were happen.

Type 056 with 4 ASuW missiles and type 360 radar + 6 torpedo is strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities!?
Type 055 is just fan boy's production, until now.
Type 041 AIP Sub? I heard about this from 2009, but until now, nothing came to real.

China to restructure oceanic administration, enhance maritime law enforcement is point on table, but that will not help China control all SCS and ECS like you dreaming.

 

[Methu_Xie]

Vietnamhouzi is shouting

 

[cirr]

You are only looking at once side of the equation. Go read what we are producing.
• 36 new cutters by 2015 for Marine Surveillance.
• 80+ type 022 missile boats already in service.
• 30+ type 056 corvettes with strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities.
• 20+ type 054A frigates and in the future type 054B frigate.
• 10+ type 052D destroyers and 6 type 052C destroyers.
• 10+ type 055 cruisers (12,000 tons with 128 VLS) construction to start this year.
• 7 type 041 submarine with AIP already constructed (many more to be constructed).
• 12 type 095 nuclear attack submarine to be constructed (2 already constructed).
• 3 type 071 LPDs (20,000 tons) in service and more to be constructed (8-10 LPDs eventually).
• 6 type 075 LHD (40,000 tons) to be constructed.
• 6 aircraft carriers to be constructed (2 conventional 60,000 tons and 4 nuclear 100,000 tons)

China is the largest shipbuilder, we can produce ships at will because of our massive industrial might and our manufacturing capabilities. We have the vast amounts of money needed, we have the talent pool (engineers and scientists), we have a large workforce, and the political will to make sure the South China Sea and East China Sea is our pond!

A few JH-7Bs with stand-off missiles like the YJ-12 and a couple of 056s are all that it takes to wipe out the tiny Vietnamse navy.

 

[Skyman]

LOL, So many young people in China just crying about military power, but I wonder how many people was ready gone to battles if the wars were happen.

Type 056 with 4 ASuW missiles and type 360 radar + 6 torpedo is strong Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities!?
Type 055 is just fan boy's production, until now.
Type 041 AIP Sub? I heard about this from 2009, but until now, nothing came to real.

China to restructure oceanic administration, enhance maritime law enforcement is point on table, but that will not help China control all SCS and ECS like you dreaming.

Kid, the type 056 is more capable than anything the little Viet navy have. To make things worse for little Viets is that we are making ATLEAST 30+ Type 056 corvettes possibly much much more. We have quality and quantity! Over 30 of these babies is more than good enough to put the entire Vietnamese navy into the scrap heap of history!
The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year, the only fan boys are Viets thinking they can take on the PLAN. Dream on kiddo
Type 041 AIP submarine is already in service with the PLAN, 7 have already finished construction. Not my fault you don't keep up with PLAN developments.

Oh yes it will, under a unified maritime law enforcement agency we can coordinate things in a far more efficient way. All our marine surveillance ships from different agencies will be under one agency.

 

[Soryu]

Kid, the type 056 is more capable than anything the little Viet navy have. To make things worse for little Viets is that we are making ATLEAST 30+ Type 056 corvettes possibly much much more. We have quality and quantity! Over 30 of these babies is more than good enough to put the entire Vietnamese navy into the scrap heap of history!
The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year, the only fan boys are Viets thinking they can take on the PLAN. Dream on kiddo
Type 041 AIP submarine is already in service with the PLAN, 7 have already finished construction. Not my fault you don't keep up with PLAN developments.

Oh yes it will, under a unified maritime law enforcement agency we can coordinate things in a far more efficient way. All our marine surveillance ships from different agencies will be under one agency.

You shout so loud but not even answer direct to my question, kid.

why type 056 strong with Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities with those limit equipment!?
The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year!? so where's proof about this shjt!?
Type 041 AIP submarine is already in service with the PLAN, , 7 have already finished construction!?
I never saw proof of Type 041 with AIP (like photo of Sub with number on it for identification). I just read the report said one with hull No. 330 launch in 2004. That end.

You chinese crying all days and nights that how mighty China destroy us, but your Government do shjt for you about that. Keep dreaming, your idiot make nothing to harm for us.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You shout so loud but not even answer direct to my question, kid.

why type 056 strong with Anti-Submarine and Anti-Ship capabilities with those limit equipment!?
The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year!? so where's proof about this shjt!?
Type 041 AIP submarine is already in service with the PLAN, , 7 have already finished construction!?
I never saw proof of Type 041 with AIP (like photo of Sub with number on it for identification). I just read the report said one with hull No. 330 launch in 2004. That end.

You chinese crying all days and nights that how mighty China destroy us, but your Government do shjt for you about that. Keep dreaming, your idiot make nothing to harm for us.

The Type 056 corvettes are only the pawns of the PLAN, they are only operated by 60 navy officers and can be easily grouped in huge number.

The 21th century modern warfare is about the weapons, the brave stone age people can never stand a chance against the technologically sophisticated army.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

You shout so loud but not even answer direct to my question, kid.


The type 055 cruiser will begin construction this year!? so where's proof about this shjt!?

The same people who leaked the info about Type 052D last year.

The Type 055 is just a 2X enlarged version of Type 052D, same 4X AESA radars, double VLS units, 4X QC-280 gas turbines instead of 2.

Before the Type 052D came out, many people like you also believed it is bullsh!t.

 

[Viet]

The difference is, Viets and Pinoys have to import your ships whereas we can make our own ships.

Not correct. right now we self produce most of our patrol vessels, and some types of surface warships (Molniya Corvettes).

Even IF you miraculously manage to sink our ships , we can quickly produce more ships. WHEN we sink your limited number of ships, you have no more since you don't have the industrial might like we do.
Not only can we make large ships but we can make them quickly too. That's a game changer.

Vietnam has a long coast line that is used as a giant aircraft carrier. We have enough cruise missiles to sink 1,000 vessels. No worry.
Even we are inferior in number of warships. That´s true.

Even a shrimp like Japan is scared and you think baby shrimps like Viets and Pinoys have ANY chance?
Even when our navy was small and outdated we still humiliated your navy in 1974 and 1988.
This is a different era kid.

We will never forget your 1974 and 1988 agressions like you never forget the Senkakus.

 

[Skyman]

Who is Toon, false flag troll!?

Just leave that mental kid alone, bro.
He crying how powerful China being, but until now, with those bullshjt power, China government can not even contral North Korea, The Chinese government has been opposed by many countries, Chinese scholars spoke like a joke around when others scholars question them about their ridiculous claim.

If China so powerful like that, Why did she action like a weak women!? Why did China don't wipe out Japan, VN, Filippinos... for you, virgin corner kid!?

We are just building up our capabilities with each passing year so time is on our side. It's better to achieve our objective without firing a shot. It saves alot of resources.
The longer we wait, the stronger we get. Those islands are not going anywhere.

 

[Zero_wing]

All the Nationalist racist chinese here thinks its would be see to go to war and win? go ahead try us can you win against coalition of countries you pi$$ off? remember it took 8 countries to bring china before and Japan alone can sink haft of your people oppressor navy to the bottom of the ocean with the US follow up not even that loan your so proud can save your @$$ and we defeated you guys before and so as the Viets so why do you insist losing again? your fighting a coalition now its not a nice idea to fight a large group of countries? its not good at all but please do your worse if you people love war so much do it then? See what happens.

 

[EastSea]

We are just building up our capabilities with each passing year so time is on our side. It's better to achieve our objective without firing a shot. It saves alot of resources.
The longer we wait, the stronger we get. Those islands are not going anywhere.

Islands are properties of others, chinese sea pirates can't rob it illegally.

 

[Viet]

A little bit long the article but worth reading




Foreign Policy

China and Vietnam: Danger in the South China Sea


John D. Ciorciari & Jessica Chen Weiss
January 10, 2013 CHINA US Focus | Perspectives shaping the world's most important bilateral relationship

John D. Ciorciari

Jessica Chen Weiss


The Sino-Vietnamese dispute in the South China Sea has intensified since 2009, as thirst for offshore energy reserves increases. China and Vietnam have taken very different approaches to advance their respective claims, and each carries important dangers that must be managed carefully to avoid locking the parties—and perhaps the surrounding region—into a path toward conflict.

The latest round in the dispute began several weeks ago, when Vietnam accused a Chinese fishing boat of “seriously violating Vietnam’s sovereignty” by cutting a seismic cable of a Petro Vietnam vessel exploring the seabed near the Gulf of Tonkin. The incident was a replay of a similar altercation in May 2011, prompting the expansion of Vietnamese maritime patrols and the latest outburst in a series of public protests. The anti-China rallies in Vietnam drew roughly 200 people and dissipated only after Vietnamese authorities detained 22 of the protesters. China maintains that the sovereignty of the South China Sea is “undisputed” and opposes any unilateral energy exploration efforts by rival claimants. China has focused on deterring other states from exploration or other activities that would help establish footholds and solidify rival claims.

China has typically conducted patrols with nonmilitary vessels belonging to civilian agencies, including maritime affairs and fisheries. Yet in perhaps an early indication that Xi Jinping does not intend to take a gentler approach than his predecessor, on January 1 new rules took effect authorizing the Hainan police to board and search boats in at least some disputed waters, most likely around the Paracel Islands. China is also boosting its naval power, most recently by contracting for four Russian attack submarines and transferring two destroyers and nine other naval vessels to its maritime surveillance fleet.

China has also pursued a wedge strategy, trying to prevent its smaller rivals from ganging up on Beijing in multilateral talks or seeking protection from extra-regional powers. For example, the state-affiliated Chinese paper Global Times warned in July 2012 that Vietnam would “feel pain” if it facilitated the U.S. return to the region, asserting that the United States would use its position to force political change in Hanoi.

In December, the state-owned China Daily published an opinion piece arguing that throughout 2012, “some Southeast Asian countries attempted to put bilateral disputes under multilateral frameworks,” and the United States and Japan “took the opportunity to add fuel to the fire, trying to stir up the troubled waters.” Domestically, China has framed the South China Sea issue as part of a larger struggle against a tightening ring of U.S.-led containment—a narrative that taps into popular nationalism but also reflects genuine strategic concerns.

Although Vietnam has also tried to strengthen its navy, its inability to match China’s might has led it to seek foreign support. Vietnam has worked with the Philippines and other states to “multilateralize” the issue in regional forums including ASEAN, APEC, and the East Asia Summit. Although some ASEAN officials have criticized Vietnam for provoking China, most interested parties have joined in Vietnam’s call for a multilateral resolution, forcing China to play diplomatic defense.

Vietnam has had success “internationalizing” the dispute as well, taking advantage of the convergent interests of the United States and other major powers to enlist their help. U.S. Secretary of Defense Leon Panetta’s visit to Cam Ranh Bay, naval visits to three Vietnamese ports, and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton’s push for a multilateral code of conduct—all reinforced the U.S. tilt toward Vietnam in 2012. After the latest cable-cutting incident in December, an Indian admiral also announced that India is undertaking exercises to protect its interests in the South China Sea, including an agreement with Petro Vietnam enabling India’s state oil and gas firm to explore disputed areas off Vietnam’s southern coast.

Internally, Vietnam has allowed numerous anti-China protests to occur since June 2011—a marked contrast to its swift repression of similar protests in 2007. The communist leadership remains wary of political protests but has been loath to crack down on anti-China demonstrations for fear of appearing “anti-nationalistic.” Moreover, many of the protesters’ placards feature English language slogans about international law, making them resonant with Vietnam’s diplomatic effort to broadcast grievances and seek foreign support.

Both states’ strategies are risky. China’s assertiveness may harden alliances, accelerate defense spending around the region, and reduce space for future compromises. Clumsy diplomatic moves—such as printing passports with the disputed territories on a map of China and pressuring Cambodia to do its bidding in recent ASEAN discussions on the South China Sea—only add to the backlash. As the contest intensifies, nationalist voices gain leverage in Beijing and limit China’s ability to back down.

Vietnam’s toleration of anti-China protesters—many of whom have criticized the government for selling out to China—may have a similar effect. Moreover, Hanoi’s balancing tactics irritate Beijing, fuel Chinese nationalism, and add to the PRC’s sense of encirclement. China has ample military and economic means to punish Hanoi, and it is unclear that Vietnam’s friends will stand by its side if push comes to shove.

Escalation is not in either state’s interest. Vietnam would risk a humiliating defeat, and China would only contribute to the containment regime it fears by waging war. The real danger lies in domestic politics that could compel both states to escalate when further incidents occur at sea. The more China and Vietnam indulge nationalism to boost their domestic appeal, draw attention, or signal resolve, the less room will remain for compromise.

The United States also has a pivotal role, not by confronting China directly—which would prompt Chinese countermeasures and encourage reckless behavior by Vietnam—but in supporting freedom of navigation and peaceful dispute resolution. Agreement on sovereignty is highly unlikely in the near future, but incremental progress is possible.

The goal of diplomacy now should be to create space for China, Vietnam, and other claimants to make progress toward a code of conduct and joint development of energy resources. Although these measures will not solve the South China Sea disputes, they will help make the problem more tractable, steering away from the territorial issues that inflame the greatest nationalist passions.



John D. Ciorciari is an assistant professor at the Gerald R. Ford School of Public Policy, University of Michigan, and author of The Limits of Alignment: Southeast Asia and the Great Powers since 1975 (Georgetown University Press, 2010).

Jessica Chen Weiss is an assistant professor in the Department of Political Science at Yale University and author of Powerful Patriots: Nationalist Protest in China’s Foreign Relations (book manuscript under review).