South China Sea Forum

[Soryu]

Patrol boat only good at Early warning and intel gathering. If you want to keep tab on the Chinese Navy, then Patrol boat is the way to go. But in case of a stand off in SCS, Vietnam need something that can break the circle, surface ship will be powerless against the PLAN. Sub on the other hand can balance the fight.

I say it clear, 6 Kilo are enough until 2020 - 2025, when you gone too much in arms race, others can think you want wars and aggression. We just need weapons for defense,.....

 

[Viet]

I think Vietnam need more Sub rather than surface vessel. You probbaly cannot go head to head with China in Surface ship but you can do soemthing like the German did in WW2 to blockade the whole SCS with sub.

You are right. More subs are necessary, more modern ones especialy from Russia and Japan.
The Russia defence minister is currently visiting Vietnam and submarine base Camranh. Besides, VN´s Prime Minister is going to visit Russia later this year. So we may see some deals.

Anyway all cost money, I am not sure if we can afford what we wish.

I say it clear, 6 Kilo are enough until 2020 - 2025, when you gone too much in arms race, others can think you want wars and aggression. We just need weapons for defense,.....

We need more than 6. China has more than 60 subs.
We don´t have any destroyer, while China has a dozen. We need a creditable deterrence in the SC sea..

 

[Soryu]

You are right. More subs are necessary, more modern ones especialy from Russia and Japan.
The Russia defence minister is currently visiting Vietnam and submarine base Camranh. Besides, VN´s Prime Minister is going to visit Russia later this year. So we may see some deals.

Anyway all cost money, I am not sure if we can afford what we wish.


We need more than 6. China has more than 60 subs.
We don´t have any destroyer, while China has a dozen. We need a creditable deterrence in the SC sea..

Bro, You forgot the fact that China is big country and face with America, Japan, India.... and need forces for defend a big country also her interests and responsible.

We not build a army, navy, airforce to match her, but to ensure if war break out, things which they got less than the lost. That preven some hawks go to the wars, and lend a hand to pigeons.

 

[Viet]

Bro, You forgot the fact that China is big country and face with America, Japan, India.... and need forces for defend a big country also her interests and responsible.

We not build a army, navy, airforce to match her, but to ensure if war break out, things which they got less than the lost. That preven some hawks go to the wars, and lend a hand to pigeons.

But we have to calculate with the worst case that we face with China alone, like in the battle of Paracels of 1974, border war of 1979 and Johnson South Reef Skirmish of 1988. Giving the strength 1:10 compared to China naval force, we MUST step up adding more naval assets.

A weak country is a subject of blackmail of others.

 

[Soryu]

But we have to calculate with the worst case that we face with China alone, like in the battle of Paracels of 1974, border war of 1979 and Johnson South Reef Skirmish of 1988. Giving the strength 1:10 compared to China naval force, we MUST step up adding more naval assets.

A weak country is a subject of blackmail of others.

_ Well, If situation become worst like that, only case is world war or China was become only superpower on this World and so far superior the others and still so evil, do anything which they want . In that case, hell for this world and us.

_ We're not weak either. Look at Filippine and some other ASEAN, though they rich more than us, anyone could said that they're stronger and got better in war than us!?

_ Our economy still need conversion, recovery and restructuring.
_ We shall remember that, even naval base for submarine's fleet not bulding yet, and money for operation and remain it and Sub are cost very much, more than cost of all 6 Submarine.
_ I don't say like VN not buy any Sub more, bro. But for now to until 2020, VN need train, fit, and build-up many things, exam is people for professional army, also science, economy for boost defense industry.
_ When life of people was good, rich, unite and country will strong, nobody can beat us.

P/S: no bụng, rồi đời sống khấm khá cái anh ơi, anh ở Đức ko biết nghĩ sao chứ em nghĩ VN mình còn ì ạch lắm, chính sách thì cứ cứng nhắc vì ko dám buông ra, buông ra sợ mất kiểm soát, lật đổ, suy yếu...!

 

[EastSea]

Dude, open fire and sunk is two different concept. Can you even understand that??

You open fire DOES NOT EQUAL TO you destroy such ship.

In WW2, US used 170,000 Torpedo against Japanese Warship, so does that mean we sunk 170,000 Japanese warship??
If what you think uis true, then the 7th Fleet would already no longer exist as i think Vietnam, regardless how small it is, could have fired more than 100 torpedo toward American Warship. We only have 96 War ship in 7th Fleet. So should i say the Base in Japan and the Bases in Peral Harbor is actually empty?

If you cannot understand such a simple thing then i cannot help you LOL :coffee

You can not understand, what does the Tonkin Incident mean ! It's clear that we sended clear message to the USA provocateurs, "USA have to go home". At the end by Paris Peace Accords of 1973, USA finished his adventure in Vietnam.

 

[jhungary]

I say it clear, 6 Kilo are enough until 2020 - 2025, when you gone too much in arms race, others can think you want wars and aggression. We just need weapons for defense,.....

No, 6 is not enought, even for defence.

You are right. More subs are necessary, more modern ones especialy from Russia and Japan.
The Russia defence minister is currently visiting Vietnam and submarine base Camranh. Besides, VN´s Prime Minister is going to visit Russia later this year. So we may see some deals.

Anyway all cost money, I am not sure if we can afford what we wish.


We need more than 6. China has more than 60 subs.
We don´t have any destroyer, while China has a dozen. We need a creditable deterrence in the SC sea..

Bro, You forgot the fact that China is big country and face with America, Japan, India.... and need forces for defend a big country also her interests and responsible.

We not build a army, navy, airforce to match her, but to ensure if war break out, things which they got less than the lost. That preven some hawks go to the wars, and lend a hand to pigeons.

The tactical situation in Vietnam is actually more or less the same with Japan. The only different between those 2 are, Vietnam is poor while Japan is rich.

The solution however, is the same. Either vietnam boost up their shore patrol ability, or roll over and die.

I am not talking about an all out race with China, as there are no way in probably 500 years Vietnam can catup up on par with the spending Chinese does, but building a sub is a mean of deterring any potential enemy for a naval engagement. Cause sub is the only offensive weapon in Naval Arsenal other than an Aircraft Carrier. And sub is way way way cheaper to build and easier to train than an a Aircraft carrier.

Vietnam should focus on this, instead of land base missile or aircraft and patrol craft which only look pretty but have no or low value on any Seaborne target.

_ Well, If situation become worst like that, only case is world war or China was become only superpower on this World and so far superior the others and still so evil, do anything which they want . In that case, hell for this world and us.

_ We're not weak either. Look at Filippine and some other ASEAN, though they rich more than us, anyone could said that they're stronger and got better in war than us!?

_ Our economy still need conversion, recovery and restructuring.
_ We shall remember that, even naval base for submarine's fleet not bulding yet, and money for operation and remain it and Sub are cost very much, more than cost of all 6 Submarine.
_ I don't say like VN not buy any Sub more, bro. But for now to until 2020, VN need train, fit, and build-up many things, exam is people for professional army, also science, economy for boost defense industry.
_ When life of people was good, rich, unite and country will strong, nobody can beat us.

P/S: no bụng, rồi đời sống khấm khá cái anh ơi, anh ở Đức ko biết nghĩ sao chứ em nghĩ VN mình còn ì ạch lắm, chính sách thì cứ cứng nhắc vì ko dám buông ra, buông ra sợ mất kiểm soát, lật đổ, suy yếu...!

Getting it real is good, only if you have time. I understand where you coming from but unless some X-factor coming out from Vietnam, Vietnam will always a smaller market than China, hence Vietnam will always have a smaller economy than China on a 1 on 1 par.

The only real goal for Vietnamese Military as i can see is try to catch up and pull up against the Chinese so that they don't get left behind by the Chinese for long. And every year you do not do that and waiting on your economy to recover, it take about 3 to 4 years more to catch up. if you focus on your economy for long and ignore the serious gap between your Military, then when Vietnam become a prosper country, there may not be a vietnam to begin with.....

Realistically, you are right. But you guys are facing a uncomformal enemy, and what you don't see yet is, you guys a lagging way bebind. You do not have time to wait on your economy, by the it would be too late. You need to do your economy and Military parallely.

And if you use philippine as your pivot point, you will be plainly quite wrong to begin with, as Philippine are a very special case.
Philippine are under full US Protection until 1992. When they decided to kick us all out without a sound defence plan itself. THen economy crisis hit and they cannot do anything nor can they recover without our help. Hence the crappy military now. They don't need a military to defend themselve before then it's too late when they realise they need it and they have no money to afford it.

You can not understand, what does the Tonkin Incident mean ! It's clear that we sended clear message to the USA provocateurs, "USA have to go home". At the end by Paris Peace Accords of 1973, USA finished his adventure in Vietnam.

I don't oppose the idea of Vietnam war being a useless war where we do not have a clear goal of objective to start and come out with nothing but several thousand killed and kills half a millions of Vietnamese.

I do maintain the term Vietnam War is just a state sponsored largest Spree killing going on the history of the world. The war of Vietnam serve no purpose to us, to anyone.

But saying the Maddox is destroyed is plainly wrong, regardless of the aim of Vietnam war. They are not destroyed then. i don't care what purpose the Vietnamese think it meant, when they are not destroyed, they are not destroyed, plain and simple

 

[EastSea]

I don't oppose the idea of Vietnam war being a useless war where we do not have a clear goal of objective to start and come out with nothing but several thousand killed and kills half a millions of Vietnamese.

I do maintain the term Vietnam War is just a state sponsored largest Spree killing going on the history of the world. The war of Vietnam serve no purpose to us, to anyone.

But saying the Maddox is destroyed is plainly wrong, regardless of the aim of Vietnam war. They are not destroyed then. i don't care what purpose the Vietnamese think it meant, when they are not destroyed, they are not destroyed, plain and simple

No, US had clear target to start the war against Viet, like China, to keep Vietnam in two states and weak. Saigon Regime refused proposal of Ho Chi Minh to start general election to unify country following the term of Geneva accord 1954.
For the Maddox, you can say that there was in safe. But it's reported that Maddox was hit by one torpedo, and one of the American aircraft had been shot down. You can now denied it.

 

[Viet]

No, 6 is not enought, even for defence.
The tactical situation in Vietnam is actually more or less the same with Japan. The only different between those 2 are, Vietnam is poor while Japan is rich.

Yeah, no way, 6 subs are clearly not enough for the giant ocean, stretching from the border to China to the Gulf of Thailand, not to mention the Straits of Malacca. We may send 4 on patrol at any given time, while 2 remain on standby.

The solution however, is the same. Either vietnam boost up their shore patrol ability, or roll over and die.

I am not talking about an all out race with China, as there are no way in probably 500 years Vietnam can catup up on par with the spending Chinese does, but building a sub is a mean of deterring any potential enemy for a naval engagement. Cause sub is the only offensive weapon in Naval Arsenal other than an Aircraft Carrier. And sub is way way way cheaper to build and easier to train than an a Aircraft carrier.
Vietnam should focus on this, instead of land base missile or aircraft and patrol craft which only look pretty but have no or low value on any Seaborne target.

We (Vietnam) need a combination of land base missiles, surface warships, aircrafts and patrol crafts as well as subs. A creditable deterrence will discourage any enemies to attack us.

Getting it real is good, only if you have time. I understand where you coming from but unless some X-factor coming out from Vietnam, Vietnam will always a smaller market than China, hence Vietnam will always have a smaller economy than China on a 1 on 1 par.

The only real goal for Vietnamese Military as i can see is try to catch up and pull up against the Chinese so that they don't get left behind by the Chinese for long. And every year you do not do that and waiting on your economy to recover, it take about 3 to 4 years more to catch up. if you focus on your economy for long and ignore the serious gap between your Military, then when Vietnam become a prosper country, there may not be a vietnam to begin with.....

Realistically, you are right. But you guys are facing a uncomformal enemy, and what you don't see yet is, you guys a lagging way bebind. You do not have time to wait on your economy, by the it would be too late. You need to do your economy and Military parallely.

And if you use philippine as your pivot point, you will be plainly quite wrong to begin with, as Philippine are a very special case.
Philippine are under full US Protection until 1992. When they decided to kick us all out without a sound defence plan itself. THen economy crisis hit and they cannot do anything nor can they recover without our help. Hence the crappy military now. They don't need a military to defend themselve before then it's too late when they realise they need it and they have no money to afford it.



I don't oppose the idea of Vietnam war being a useless war where we do not have a clear goal of objective to start and come out with nothing but several thousand killed and kills half a millions of Vietnamese.

I do maintain the term Vietnam War is just a state sponsored largest Spree killing going on the history of the world. The war of Vietnam serve no purpose to us, to anyone.

But saying the Maddox is destroyed is plainly wrong, regardless of the aim of Vietnam war. They are not destroyed then. i don't care what purpose the Vietnamese think it meant, when they are not destroyed, they are not destroyed, plain and simple

First the defence, second the economy. A weak country is at mercy of aggressors!

 

[zxmint]

Very poor idea, low educated boy.

It was not "virtualized world". It was truth: 1954 France Colonie, 1973 Uncle Sam, and 1979 Mr. Ah Q (note that it means China, you may don't understand who is this) went home.
1965 the US destroyer USS Maddox was attacked by three North Vietnamese Navy torpedo boats. And now, if China is still going to be mad man, what have to do with him when we have more weapon, like 6 kilos imported from Russia and Bastion missile ?

It makes yourself looked so funny to say Viets "won" those wars by yourselves. At least very few people in China would say we defeated Japanese and drove them out by ourselves in WWII. Not to mention you obviously lost the one in 1979. Although we Chinese are not quite proud of that, it is ridiculous for you to claim the victory when the war occurred in your land and it was your people who suffered the pain of war.

 

[EastSea]

It makes yourself looked so funny to say Viets "won" those wars by yourselves. At least very few people in China would say we defeated Japanese and drove them out by ourselves in WWII. Not to mention you obviously lost the one in 1979. Although we Chinese are not quite proud of that, it is ridiculous for you to claim the victory when the war occurred in your land and it was your people who suffered the pain of war.

You are liar, read again my post, no word "win" or "won" there. I stated only that" It was truth: 1954 France Colonie, 1973 Uncle Sam, and 1979 Mr. Ah Q (note that it means China, you may don't understand who is this) went home.

The Sino-Vietnam war is innitated by China, When China sided to Uncle Sam, PLA invaded in our soil, it's crime, many thousands Vietnamese were killed or wounded by brutal PLA, nothing to proud for that. It's a shameful for China, big boy but bad boy with something unstable in mentality.

 

[NiceGuy]

It makes yourself looked so funny to say Viets "won" those wars by yourselves. At least very few people in China would say we defeated Japanese and drove them out by ourselves in WWII. Not to mention you obviously lost the one in 1979. Although we Chinese are not quite proud of that, it is ridiculous for you to claim the victory when the war occurred in your land and it was your people who suffered the pain of war.

we won and China+US lost.So now,we control China's economy and Guam's life in our hands now. When VN+Russia navy decide to cut off oil trade route from Middle East passing through Malacca and SCS(east sea) , then China+ Guam will collapse

VN+Russia navy base in Cam Ranh-VN are controlling ur life now,without oil from Middle east,China will collapse in 3 weeks, do u realise that u r loser and ur life is in our hands now?

 

[Fsjal]

You are liar, read again my post, no word "win" or "won" there. I stated only that" It was truth: 1954 France Colonie, 1973 Uncle Sam, and 1979 Mr. Ah Q (note that it means China, you may don't understand who is this) went home.

The Sino-Vietnam war is innitated by China, When China sided to Uncle Sam, PLA invaded in our soil, it's crime, many thousands Vietnamese were killed or wounded by brutal PLA, nothing to proud for that. It's a shameful for China, big boy but bad boy with something unstable in mentality.

"Brutal PLA"

I heard the NVA and Viet Cong were brutal themselves.

 

[EastSea]

"Brutal PLA"

I heard the NVA and Viet Cong were brutal themselves.

You heard it from propaganda of CCP.
The Chinese cultural revolution caused the death of 30 million people (source: the current Chinese government), but many died of hunger.
How many people died in China's Cultural Revolution?

 

[Zero_wing]

"Brutal PLA"

I heard the NVA and Viet Cong were brutal themselves.

Sure sure and your a true Filipino right?