South China Sea Forum

[cirr]

CMS 4001 and 4002 formally inducted on 21.05.2014：

 

[EastSea]

CMS 4001 and 4002 formally inducted on 21.05.2014：

posting failure, not seen.

 

[cirr]

12800-tonne CCG flagship(1st of 4 vessels) under construction at JNS

 

[Soryu]

I don't know if Vietnam realizes this, but no matter how many weapons Vietnam buy, China is always one step ahead of Vietnam with more and better weapons. There are no weapons that Vietnam that currently possesses that threaten China. Even if there is a war, a loss of six submarine and ten frigates is a drop of a water for China, but a big loss for Vietnam.
The only thing that makes China think twice before instigating trouble with any countries is a nuclear weapon.
Israel, a country that is outnumbered by her enemies realized this long time ago, that's why she had a nuclear bomb. The same goes with Pakistan versus India. Even Japan and the USA treats North Korea with caution as she has a nuclear weapon. Taiwan does n't need a nuclear weapon as it has the US in its corner.

Its so strange that Vietnam spend so much money on convention weapons such as submarines, s-300 and fighter jets, yet China still place a rig in her backyard.

Excellent opinion, buddy, like nobody know it ...
Sure as hell, China is big, Vietnam is small, we know that for thousand years, that why Vietnamese country still exist while many countries was swallowed by China.
North Korea has her way and attempt to has nuclear deterrence.
Vietnam has different position and path, so we come to this day with what we have.

Conventional weapons have their place to use, you can win if you good.
If Vietnamese can touch nuclear toys, you think what will China do !?
Vietnam is not Israel, Pakistan or NK, different background, potential and path, so we will only got nuclear deterrence if we're in position like those other ...

12800-tonne CCG flagship(1st of 4 vessels) under construction at JNS

failure hotlink image ...
Do you have any CG image about these !?

 

[Soryu]

Could Indonesia and the others want to join the show !?

China Must Exit Disputed Waters, Asean Leader Says

Officers of the Vietnamese Marine Guard monitor a Chinese coast guard vessel on the South China Sea, about 210 kilometers off the coast of Vietnam, on Thursday. Reuters

JAKARTA, Indonesia—China needs to leave disputed waters of the South China Sea, the Asean secretary-general said Friday.

The "next step now, we have to get China out of the territorial waters of" Vietnam, Secretary-General Le Luong Minh told The Wall Street Journal. "That's the first thing."

Doing that "will be conducive to restoring confidence" in talks to resolve disputed claims by several countries in the resource-rich waters, Mr. Minh said.

Mr. Minh, a Vietnamese national, was speaking amid an outburst of violence this week outside Ho Chi Minh City and in central Vietnam in response to a tense standoff over an oil rig China recently placed in contested parts of the South China Sea.

Vietnam says the Chinese oil rig is 241 kilometers from Vietnam's shore, well within its "exclusive economic zone," defined by the United Nations as areas extending 370 km from a country's coast. China, however, claims jurisdiction over the waters, off the Paracel Islands, which are controlled by China but also claimed by Hanoi.

Mr. Minh's statement was the strongest yet by a spokesman for the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations. Four Asean members—Vietnam, the Philippines, Malaysia and Brunei—have territorial disputes with China in the waters.

The statement also marked a shift for Mr. Minh, who during an Asean summit last weekend pointed to a joint statement that expressed "serious concern" over the Vietnam-China confrontation but stopped shy of criticizing Beijing.

On Friday, Mr. Minh said China's move was a setback to regional talks and showed again that a declaration of conduct signed by China and Asean in 2002 "has not been effective enough in preventing these incidents."

A lack of progress with China in resolving territorial claims has been "disappointing," he said, and the latest incident made it all the "more important that we try to engage in substantive consultations and negotiations."

Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa told The Wall Street Journal on Friday that he shared Mr. Minh's view that "this is a very dangerous situation" and that he was calling on Asean members to "renew their thoughts on the South China Sea."

Mr. Natalegawa stopped short of supporting Mr. Minh's calls for China to leave the region, but said "China must deliver on its officially stated commitment to implement" the 2002 declaration and push forward with talks in earnest.

Currently, he said, there is "almost an attempt to deny there is an issue in the first place."

Sek Wannamethee, spokesman for Thailand's Foreign Ministry, declined to comment on Mr. Minh's statement, saying the conflict was a bilateral issue between Vietnam and China.

The islands, reefs and atolls of the South China Sea, and the waters around them, are claimed in whole or in part by six governments. Though the disputes have prevented thorough exploration, energy analysts believe significant reserves of oil and gas lie beneath its seabed.

Write to Ben Otto

 

[Soryu]

Indonesia’s Foreign Minister Weighs in on China-Vietnam Standoff

Indonesian Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa delivers a speech in Jakarta, on March 1.
European Pressphoto Agency

By itself, Vietnam seems to have little recourse in its current standoff with China over waters both claim.

And so far it has had limited success in rallying the support of its closest neighbors – or the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian nations, which has long tried to negotiate a binding Code of Conduct in the disputed sea. The regional body signed a declaration of conduct with China in 2002 intended to usher in that code.

Indonesia, where Asean has its head office, has played a mediating role in resolving a handful of regional conflicts, including a dispute between Thailand and Cambodia and over a historic temple.

In an interview, Foreign Minister Marty Natalegawa weighed in on some of the issues confronting Asean and Indonesia in the current China-Vietnam impasse. Edited excerpts follow.


On Asean’s role
It’s both a bilateral and a regional issue, and Asean has a special responsibility to ensure that the conditions are right for the two sides to talk. By not doing anything, we are actually doing something by making it worse. In this case, Asean’s state of mind, in terms of rallying around Vietnam in this situation, was instant and immediate.

On China’s actions
There is almost an attempt to deny there is an issue in the first place; the acknowledgement of dispute is what is now being tested. China must deliver on its often-stated commitment to implement the DOC. It’s clear as daylight about the need to exercise restraint.

Questions Mr. Natalegawa is asking
How can all of the DOC become practically relevant? If not now, when? We have all these wonderfully-crafted principles; the time for relevance is now.

On Asean’s progress
This time around, fortunately, we have the basics; we have the six-point principles after the Asean foreign ministers meeting in Cambodia in 2012. Now I’m trying to take it one notch higher. If China says it’s committed to implementing the DOC and creating the COC how can we reconcile that with China’s position that there is no dispute?

The next step
Indonesia is calling on Asean states to renew their thoughts on the South China Sea in a more robust manner. And Indonesia is keen to build on what should be uniting the two countries. Number one is communication. In the first few days of confrontation, China and Vietnam weren’t even taking phone calls with one another, and now they are. At least communication is underway.

I’ve also been in intensive communication with foreign ministers of China and Vietnam. Both sides independently say they want restraint – in words. I have been trying to get the two to define what they mean by self-restraint.

Write to Cris Larano at cris.larano@wsj.com

 

[Zero_wing]

Asean is dead and gone the Issue as proven that! its only good for Economics nothing more

 

[cirr]

Man-made Islands from reefs in the SCS

欢迎来到中船第九设计研究院工程有限公司网站！

China has grand designs on the SCS。A lot more to come。You arn't see nothing yet。

 

[terranMarine]

keep us informed of these grand plans cirr

 

[cirr]

CCG 2306 launched：

提示信息 - HSH发烧友论坛 - Powered by Discuz!

 

[Soryu]

Man-made Islands from reefs in the computer

China has grand designs on the computer。A lot more to come。You arn't see nothing yet。

fixed for you ...

 

[Soryu]

Toward the East Sea - Young Vietnamese's spirit

 

[Ginsu33]

Toward the East Sea - Young Vietnamese's spirit

Beautiful photos.

It's been a long winded read and a lot of discouraging back and forth from both Vietnamese and Chinese supporters. When patriotism and pride is being involved in what is down to it's most basic levels; a grab for resources and wealth, it's a sad reminder of the reality of the world we live in.

Any nation, regardless of it's intentions should be prepared to defend it's interests both at home and overseas. Because the capablity to do so will always be the deciding factor in disputes such as this one, the claim of ownership alone means nothing if you cannot enforce it.

Vietnam is a beautiful country with a strong military history and wealth of exerpience, but they needed to choose their battles more carefully.

Regarding China, what can I say. They managed to encourage an arms race across the pacific. Being a military-super power with force projection capabilities is a fantastic achievement to strive for, however being a military-super power in a region where every nation's military is against you is a strategic nightmare that China seems to have accepted as it's fate.

 

[TaiShang]

Regarding China, what can I say. They managed to encourage an arms race across the pacific. Being a military-super power with force projection capabilities is a fantastic achievement to strive for, however being a military-super power in a region where every nation's military is against you is a strategic nightmare that China seems to have accepted as it's fate.

It is not an arms race. It is a rational desire to have better defense capabilities than your real and potential adversaries. It is bound to happen as it is in the nature of things. Not just with arms, with everything else. Before China, Japan was a formidable naval power in the region. So maybe, Japan triggered an arms race. Why would China subscribe to the idea of Japan having a better navy when China is capable of outdoing them?

Going further back, maybe it is the US triggering an arms race because they are kind of a standard where everybody aims to reach at. By the logic, if the US reduces its arms superiority, then, this will naturally result in a reduced arms race.

You see? Your logic is corrupted and you are seeking moral high ground by bashing China. Like any other country, China is also under certain geopolitical influences. If you want to go up to the top of the real initiator, start with the US. There is no rational explanation why would China stop until it ensured it is equal to (or greater than) the US in military power.

When/if this happens, even the hypothesis that every nation's military is against China means nothing. They will envy and copy you.

 

[Soryu]

It is not an arms race. It is a rational desire to have better defense capabilities than your real and potential adversaries. It is bound to happen as it is in the nature of things. Not just with arms, with everything else. Before China, Japan was a formidable naval power in the region. So maybe, Japan triggered an arms race. Why would China subscribe to the idea of Japan having a better navy when China is capable of outdoing them?

Going further back, maybe it is the US triggering an arms race because they are kind of a standard where everybody aims to reach at. By the logic, if the US reduces its arms superiority, then, this will naturally result in a reduced arms race.

You see? Your logic is corrupted and you are seeking moral high ground by bashing China. Like any other country, China is also under certain geopolitical influences. If you want to go up to the top of the real initiator, start with the US. There is no rational explanation why would China stop until it ensured it is equal to (or greater than) the US in military power.

When/if this happens, even the hypothesis that every nation's military is against China means nothing. They will envy and copy you.

PRC triggered a arms race because her greedy desire with territory, this how everyone point at China and condemn her.