Sniper for PA

[blain2]

hi man your alive i was worried that you were one of those 300 snipers / spartans of kidnapped by baitullah masud
good to see you

any way if pakistani army can carry a mg3 machine gun with tripe pod that 10.5 kg
i dont think they wil have a lot of problem carrying a .50BMG
beside a .50 caliber is superior to 7.62 in every possible way
the only way a 7.62 is effective in modren war fare of today is that you take a clean head shot
most armies now a days use bullet proof vest so 7.62 is useless
untill and unless you use these bullets (ARMOUR PERCING ROUNDS)
here to make it easie for you have have disected it so you know wat an ap round is like
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff217/salmanjin/guns%20me/bullets.jpg
http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff217/salmanjin/guns me/DSC02438.jpg

any way back to topic
about 7.62 i seriouly doubt that pakistan army common troops are able to take head shots with a sniper rifle
simple because pakistan army has not sniper traning school wat so ever
as much as we imagen that there is the fact is that they is not

how ever with bmg you can easily take out any man at fairly great distnace by hitting his center and even if he is wearing a bullet proof vest he is gone

so why waste time and money on a 7.62

one more thing 7.62 can only kill a man a bmg can take out armoured personal carriers and vehicals and machine gun posts with ease
so why not have such a weapon
its a rifle with hte power comparable to an rpg and its accurate

My friend,

MG-3 is a pain when carried xcountry. Prior to MG-3, PA used to have American A-6s which were also a pain in the rear on long hauls. Secondly, the amount of distance that a common infantryman covers is not the same as that which a SF operator, to be inserted, may be required to cover. At that point, both MG-3 and .50 Cal AMR type weapon becomes a pain. But the Army is buying the AMRs.

Also, the Pakistan Army does have a sniper school. Its in Quetta and run under the auspices of School of Infantry and Tactics.

 

[peshawar]

My friend,

MG-3 is a pain when carried xcountry. Prior to MG-3, PA used to have American A-6s which were also a pain in the rear on long hauls. Secondly, the amount of distance that a common infantryman covers is not the same as that which a SF operator, to be inserted, may be required to cover. At that point, both MG-3 and .50 Cal AMR type weapon becomes a pain. But the Army is buying the AMRs.

Also, the Pakistan Army does have a sniper school. Its in Quetta and run under the auspices of School of Infantry and Tactics.

ya bro i agree with your point and and yes i have had my share of carrying mg3 its sucks big time the only reason pakistan army is still using is its relibility and the spreed of its rounds are good which is very important for a machinegun
i do belive 7.62 sniper rifles are important i personally own and daraganove and a jungle sniper and yes even walking around with a daraganove is a pain
so walking around with a .50 wil be a big head ache specially if your in SF
BUT we are discussing SNIPERS FOR PAKISTAN ARMY
means regular infintary units mostly
i am not saying that they should not stop using SSG69 its an amazing rifle
but they should equipet them self with .50 this way they can not just kill at a greater ranger but also damage/destory vehicals with one shot
guy .50 sniper rifle is like having a very accurate rpg that can hit targets up to 2km imagen the power and range
we must have this

 

[peshawar]

None taken taken Peshawar.

True the strategic context of India must be taken into account but you've heard from the professionals about the need for moving quickly with a weapon thats light to carry.

I still prefer the British long range rifle for such a role.

For counter insurgency on the other hand I agree that a 50 cal might be a good option and I recall that an order for some 50 rifles was placed for SSG.

EVERY weapon system has its pros and cons
i have a checksalavakina .22 brono
now itcan hit stff up till 250-300 meters and my stuff i mean targets like heads and chests
now in an urben area using and daraganove or a 12.7 for hit and hide kinda attack is stupid
plus if your shot at by a .22 from 300 meters away trust me your friend beside you wil not even hear the shot being fired

but then .22 give you very small ranger and shitty penetration
but .22 has its advantages too

similarly .50 has problems with size and wight but then it gives you a great advantage of range
shooting a traget from 1.4km away give you the range and time t get away as a compensation

similarly we use 12.7 machine guns for post defence in waziristan and kargil and siachen
now 12.7 does penetrates stuff but in mountain terrain a man hidding behind a big bolder is a target hard to kill
the fuking serbs used to use 30mm anti air craft cannons at attacking KLA
and it was pretty effective it ment you can hide behind rocks

we need the .50caliber sniper system it wil make us strong AND ACCURATE

 

[Keysersoze]

EVERY weapon system has its pros and cons
i have a checksalavakina .22 brono
now itcan hit stff up till 250-300 meters and my stuff i mean targets like heads and chests
now in an urben area using and daraganove or a 12.7 for hit and hide kinda attack is stupid
plus if your shot at by a .22 from 300 meters away trust me your friend beside you wil not even hear the shot being fired

but then .22 give you very small ranger and shitty penetration
but .22 has its advantages too

similarly .50 has problems with size and wight but then it gives you a great advantage of range
shooting a traget from 1.4km away give you the range and time t get away as a compensation

similarly we use 12.7 machine guns for post defence in waziristan and kargil and siachen
now 12.7 does penetrates stuff but in mountain terrain a man hidding behind a big bolder is a target hard to kill
the fuking serbs used to use 30mm anti air craft cannons at attacking KLA
and it was pretty effective it ment you can hide behind rocks

we need the .50caliber sniper system it wil make us strong AND ACCURATE

JK mate there is no point in discussing thing with this guy. A good analogy is, if your car breaks down do you talk to a mechanic or someone who has a load of spanners?
When you do REAL training you will know what Blain and me are talking about.
The ramblings of a civilian without a clue will seem ludicrous when you look back.

In addition to my military training I have spent a lot of time hunting in the woods of Finland (some of the best snipers in world came from there) and frankly peshawar's ramblings about big rocks would be laughed at there. Go understand concepts of dead ground and how they are countered. THEN come on here and try to dazzle us with your "knowledge" and "experience"

In conclusion YOU HAVE NO CLUE PESHAWAR, SHUT UP!

 

[peshawar]

millitary traning humm
well i guess you dont know much about me i am ex millitary

plus trust me i have more weapons than you have clothes

and wat your saying is some thing like .22 pistol is better than a 9mm pistol

and havent you hurd the sinper worst enemy is a sniper
and the real armies in the world use .50 sniper to hunt down snipers using 7.62

you wat your saying is 7.62 sniper systems are better than .50

 

[peshawar]

@Keysersoze
by the way which army you are in?

 

[Keysersoze]

millitary traning humm
well i guess you dont know much about me i am ex millitary

plus trust me i have more weapons than you have clothes

and wat your saying is some thing like .22 pistol is better than a 9mm pistol

and havent you hurd the sinper worst enemy is a sniper
and the real armies in the world use .50 sniper to hunt down snipers using 7.62

you wat your saying is 7.62 sniper systems are better than .50

Well you don't talk like anyone with military experience.. shooting through rocks huh? They teach you that? every word you speak shows how little experience you have.

I have a lot of clothes, if you have more weapons than that it makes you a moron.

You seriously have no clue do you? how did you compare a .22 with a 9mm? its NOT the same thing .....go back to school and leave guns to those who know how to use em. and also while you are at it return all those guns...you are probably more of a danger to yourself than anyone else form the sounds of it.

And don't tell me about being a sniper...been there done that in the real world
in fact there are others from my unit on here who can vouch to it. ( a clue for you look at my flag and tell me what army I am in?)

 

[peshawar]

Well you don't talk like anyone with military experience.. shooting through rocks huh? They teach you that? every word you speak shows how little experience you have.

I have a lot of clothes, if you have more weapons than that it makes you a moron.

You seriously have no clue do you? how did you compare a .22 with a 9mm? its NOT the same thing .....go back to school and leave guns to those who know how to use em. and also while you are at it return all those guns...you are probably more of a danger to yourself than anyone else form the sounds of it.

And don't tell me about being a sniper...been there done that in the real world
in fact there are others from my unit on here who can vouch to it. ( a clue for you look at my flag and tell me what army I am in?)

.22 and 9mm are as different as .50bmg and 7.62

and ohh your in the same army who lost 9999 out of its 10000 troops in the war in NWFP
and oh forgot HELMAND rings some bells in your ears
lol

NOW I UNDERSTAND EVERY THING

YOUR A BRITISH BORN CONFUSED DESI
lol

 

[Keysersoze]

.22 and 9mm are as different as .50bmg and 7.62

and ohh your in the same army who lost 9999 out of its 10000 troops in the war in NWFP
and oh forgot HELMAND rings some bells in your ears
lol

NOW I UNDERSTAND EVERY THING

YOUR A BRITISH BORN CONFUSED DESI
lol

Silly really aren't you...and quite desperate with it.

Let me put it into simple language

ME SOLDIER, YOU STUPID BOY

HELMAND rings no bells at all....we're winning want the numbers again?

If you exclude the accidents and crashes the Taliban including have manged to kill something like 10 soldiers a YEAR.thats pathetic really, a bit like you
can't get he exact number of dead people llike you, but its several thousand.
Go sell your guns and get an education preferably one with some maths in it.

I am not confused at all..... I am clear as day.....pop across the border with all your guns. maybe you'll get a lesson in marksmanship

And since you you are a slow learner take another break lol we have enough fakes here don't need another "hero" like you lol
byebye.......

 

[Neo]

Let me put it into simple language

ME SOLDIER, YOU STUPID BOY

ROTFLMAO!

 

[ashfaque]

Keysersoz...

Great to know man your in british army, very nice.

 

[Keysersoze]

I have to add some stuff because that guy is a serious moron.
he waffles on about how he has gun X or gun Y yet the idiot doesn't know how to use them.

1) A heavy weapon like a 50 cal would have to be carried on operations. It's fine on a static position. but try lugging that monster over 20/30km in addition to your food rations, helmet body armour and assorted other equipment. Also it would be useless in close contacts (the length of the barrel plays a part here too). That would mean you would need to carry another weapon which adds more weight.
The chucklehead then uses the example of a MG-3 a GPMG ( a sustained fire weapon) as the reason why its ok. It's like saying its ok because some soldiers carry 20kg parts of a 80mm mortar. (which I have done btw)


2)If you zero a weapon at 200/300 metres like the hero with "more guns than you have clothes" apparently you can't hit anything beyond that range. Obviously he hasn't learned to correct for drop /wind and other factors. IT'S SIMPLE MARKSMANSHIP. Seriously if you can't do that then you are a pretty crappy marksman.

3)If you come out with classic comments like guys hiding behind rocks are the reason why the PA needs a bigger calibre weapon. You can't expect people to take you seriously. I mean seriously it's quite laughable. If you can't tell the difference between a rapid firing anti-aircraft weapon (that the Serbs used) and a sniper weapon. then there is no help for you.

He claims he is military, but seriously how bad a soldier must you be, to talk so much crap. I wanna know what army he was in.......seriously they need to raise their IQ tests.

AND FINALLY trying to change the subject onto the fact that I am a British and desperately trying to change the subject, doesn't make you right. it makes you wrong with a chip on your shoulder.

 

[Blackpearl]

I think, we are mixing sniper rifle with anti material rifles.
A true sniper rifle is, of, 7.62 mm caliber, having a mag scope. Service weapons of this caliber may be customized to be converted to sniper rifle. A sniper rifle is a dedicated anti personnel rifle, with accurate shots upto 600-800 meters.

When we talk of .5 in caliber (12.7 mm), the rifle is, off course heavy, as bullet is heavy. They are anti material rifles, but can be used to kill humans at longer ranges. The world’s longest range kill is made by a Canadian Soldier, in Afghanistan, in 2002, at a range of 2430 meters. The weapon used was American McMillan TAC-50, 12.7 mm caliber. The soldier missed first 2 shots, and the third shot took down the Taliban soldier.

In Pakistan Army, Steyr SSG (Austria), is the dedicated sniper weapon, held with infantry soldiers. I don’t think, that there is any plan to equip the soldiers with heavy 12.7 mm rifles, as they are actuaaly anti material rifles.

 

[blain2]

Blackwater,

See post #11 on this thread

Also some recent pictures of troops with Steyr SSG69s:

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i123/blain2/5-Nov-200701.jpg

http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i123/blain2/5-Nov-200702.jpg

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Today's sniper rifle is not only the 7.62 mm but comes in different bore sizes, depending on the need and place. The 7.62 or .308 round is a dated round---but then most of the rifles are still available in this bore---there is .223, the .300winmag, .338 lapua, .260 it just depends what the need is and what kind of job needs to be done.

Go to this website and get all your answers Sniper Central - Mel's Sniper Page