Smaller but Capable: How Pakistan Air Force Deters Indian Air Force

[Paji]

With an edge in integration/synergy + intel/surveillance, Pakistan will always be a force to be reckoned with even if the enemy has superior aircraft.
Integration/synergy between all PAF assets and between all forces is probably the most important thing. With this you can easily concentrate a superior force in a small area against the enemy even if your enemy has superior numbers on paper.

Why do you think Pakistan will have an edge in integration/synergy + intel/surveillance ? What do you know about Indian capability in these areas ?

 

[Saudang]

Sure, Pakistan is a walkover for india. Maybe tell your army to free “Azad Kashmir”. We’re waiting here with some fantastic tea.

no ,, you are not a walkover, or otherwise we would have already done that.. I guess Kashmir is your juggular vein, and the onus is you to liberate it from the kufrs like us.. hum to last 77 years se yeha baithen hua hain

 

[Abdul Rehman Majeed]

we have nuclear subs.. and for a costal neighbour like pakistan, we dont need AIP subs

your MIRV is not tested, .. we have two BMD systems in operation

we dont need tactical nukes, in retaliation to any nuke attack by pakistan, we will go full kaa- boom ..

baki points ka koi matlab nehi hain,, all feel good. so I am letting you feel good

Your weapons are duds and untested.

But the best part is your military personnel are unskilled and jokers.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

I wouldn't be surprised if there are twin engine variants of the JF-17 in the future. Like there are two seater variants.

China strongly supports Pakistan. So all will be good Insh'Allah.

No there will be no JF17 if it will have 2 engines because we need to redesign almost whole jet nose to tail

Your weapons are duds and untested.

But the best part is your military personnel are unskilled and jokers.

Most of our weapons are also untested dude

And you're joker not them

Your weapons are duds and untested.

But the best part is your military personnel are unskilled and jokers.

Most of our weapons are also untested dude

And you're joker not them

 

[Rollno21]

Even today Our forces are better equipped than the Indians.

Our Agosta submarines have AIP while Indian scorpenes do not

Our nuke tests were a grand success while Indian nuke tests failed

We have MIRV strategic missiles while India does not.

We have Tactical nuclear misslles while India does not

We have UCAV while Indians do not.

Our JF-17 Block III are far more superior to their Tejas.

A country which can launch more than 100 satellites in a rocket and you say it dosent have MIRV.

Pakistan can match or sometimes outmatch india in a localized fight but when the conflict spreads is when and tye longer it lasts it will.become that much difficult for Pakistan to go on. That's is what you have seen in all tye conflicts between India and Pakistan.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

no ,, you are not a walkover, or otherwise we would have already done that.. I guess Kashmir is your juggular vein, and the onus is you to liberate it from the kufrs like us.. hum to last 77 years se yeha baithen hua hain

We want peaceful solution of Kashmir under the U.N. resolutions unlike you that wants our part through military invasion

You're the biggest mess/threat for the peace of the subcontinent

Jai terrorist HIND

 

[MastanKhan]

In previous conflicts between India and Pakistan, Pakistan has been armed with superior American weapons and still been defeated militarily. Now the tide has turned.

As far as deterrence is concerned, India has no intention of undertaking an offensive war. Even if there is a war and the existensce of Pakistan is hypothetically threatened, nukes are enough of a deterrence.

Hi,

In which region---other than Bangladesh---.

Your weapons are duds and untested.

But the best part is your military personnel are unskilled and jokers.

Hi,

Children should not insult adults---because they might correct their errors---and the consequences are terrible---.

 

[LeGenD]

Till the Turkish boys fooled the French EW systems (frigate and Rafales) in the East Med. The PAF is in safe hands...

Turkish products are good, but this sounds a bit much.

If French and Greek members notice this statement, this thread will go downhill so let's stick to verifiable claims.

 

[Woody]

We want peaceful solution of Kashmir under the U.N. resolutions unlike you that wants our part through military invasion

You're the biggest mess/threat for the peace of the subcontinent

Jai terrorist HIND

That's why you guys attacked kargil ? for peaceful solution ?

Pakistan can compare with India only till this decade after that you won't stand a chance,

Your Economy is dead ,we will have a defence budget of more than half your GDP very soon, there won't be any contest.

 

[LeGenD]

The East Med is a bone of contention b/w Turkey and Greece for Turkey wants to explore it for hydrocarbons. The French Navy came to the aid of it's naughty brother a couple of years back. One French frigate was inside the Turkish EEZ posing quite a threat. Suddenly it's crew found out that their radars/EW/data-links etc. weren't working. They sent SOS to their base, and the entire comm was intercepted by the Turkish side to their great amusement.....

On another occasion the Greek F-16s and French Rafales came in damn close contact to the Turkish F-16s over the East Med. The latter took extremely aggressive moves (reminiscent of the PAF tactics) against the Greek F-16s, which were counting on the French Rafales to give the BVR cover. But to their bewilderment the Rafales moved away fast from the scene leaving the Greeks at the mercy of the Turks.....

As for the Aklman, this much Isharet is Ka'fi.....

*Now, the USN has deployed her largest a/c carrier, The Gerald Ford, along with its entire fleet in the East Med as the Turkish seismic fleet has started exploring hydrocarbons.
**A squadron of Qatar's Rafales are deployed in Turkey for a long duration.
***Following the procurement of Rafales by Greece, Prof Ismail Demir, the former Turkish Defense Industries boss, said: let them bring whatever they want, we'll show them their places at the Meydan-i Jenk.

USN strike group is deployed in the Mediterranean Sea to monitor ongoing Ukraine - Russia War. If this war spiral to the sea, USN strike group will take care of Russian ships. Not sure if others have enough balls.

Turkey wants to keep its distance from the Ukraine - Russia War.

Both Turkey and Greece have lost men in incidents over Aegean and can hurt each other badly in case of war:

Face-Off Over The Aegean: How Greek And Turkish Air Forces Stack Up

With tensions rising over energy reserves in the Aegean Sea, the disgruntled neighbors have air arms that are well-equipped and at high readiness.

www.thedrive.com

Let's assume that Turkey can defeat Greece in the war, French might want to prevent Greek defeat. The French might be posturing in Aegean to indicate this intent.

But this is something that US will not want to happen because this development will be a huge setback to NATO on the whole. This is why the situation has not spiraled out of control in the region.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

That's why you guys attacked kargil ? for peaceful solution ?

Pakistan can compare with India only till this decade after that you won't stand a chance,

Your Economy is dead ,we will have a defence budget of more than half your GDP very soon, there won't be any contest.

Kargil was mistake by our army, and you're the PUPPET of West/USA to contain/conceal China

Jai terrorist HIND

 

[Muji.Iqbal]

No there will be no JF17 if it will have 2 engines because we need to redesign almost whole jet nose to tail


Most of our weapons are also untested dude

And you're joker not them


Most of our weapons are also untested dude

And you're joker not them

These American Imperialist Bastards got their punishment:

 

[hari sud]

Via Tipu7

In modern warfare, without control over skies, the likelihood of a successful military operation remains far-fetched. In the past, air power was primarily gauged by the numerical strength and ability to employ brute force in combat. But modern air power has become a function of synergizing combat and support assets for exertion of graduated firepower for undermining adversary in psychological and kinetic domains. The efficiency of modern air power is chiefly based upon: network centricity via sensor fusion for comprehensive situation awareness; precise and stand-off strike capability; look first and shoot first advantage; and the efficient employment of electromagnetic prowess.

The air power plays centerline role in Indo-Pak strategic environment. Being a smaller force with limited resources, Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has traditionally followed offensive defense posture. The notion behind this posture is to achieve psychological dominance over the adversary in the earliest phase of conflict to accomplish escalation control. At a later stage, to maintain credible A2/AD envelope over own air space to degrade enemy’s air, land and naval offensive operations. This includes efficient employment of available forces, high level of readiness, and progressive improvements in its doctrinal framework with respect to emerging technologies.

PAF is currently structured around a compound fleet of modern and previous generation combat aircrafts augmented by an ample number of force multipliers, i.e. AEW&Cs and EW/ELINT aircrafts. Historically, PAF has emphasized on the policy of procurement of high end assets from foreign sources and supplementing it with indigenous projects to constitute the bulk of forces. For example, F-16 Fighting Falcons, (AM/BM and C/D configuration) continues to manifest force’s amalgam of cutting edge technology and diverse experience. This has been augmented by recent procurement of J-10C Vigorous Dragon from China. J-10C has allowed PAF to employ new high-end Chinese weapons and sensor suite including PL-10 HOBS missile, PL-15 dual pulse BVR missile, Infrared Search and Track (IRST) and Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar.

Meanwhile, the joint production of Jf-17 Thunder program has contemplated advantages of its own. These advantages include: the aversion of the obsoleteness crisis by replacing outdated aircrafts and diffusion of modern capabilities to the entirety of fleet without outstretching the budgetary limitations. Currently, Jf-17 Block-III is the most capable version and has introduced a new set of technologies like AESA radar, and next generation weapon air-to-air missiles, and a host of precise and stand-off air to ground munitions. In parallel, PAF is also keen to retain its advantage in unmanned aerial systems. Beside acquiring home-grown drones of varying capability, PAF is procuring cutting edge Akinci HALE UCAV and combat-proven TB-02 MALE UCAV from Turkey.

The real strength of PAF, however, is represented by its comparatively abundant fleet of air borne early warning control (AEW&C) aircrafts. PAF operates almost dozen AEW&C aircrafts of Chinese (ZDK-03) and Swedish (Erieye) origin. These eyes in the sky provide sustained intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) and command & control capabilities. The popularization of AEW&Cs and EW/ELINT platforms, and growing jointness of all assets into a synergized force, has rapidly consolidated PAF into a force which can credibly avert all levels of aggression by the Indian counterparts.

Indian Air Force (IAF), being a numerically superior force with better combat stamina, is postured for a prolonged multi-front and attrition-oriented warfare. This posture, however, now has limited feasibility, particularly after overt nuclearization of India and Pakistan. Unlike PAF, which is entirely structured against India-centric threats, IAF has two major fronts to deal with simultaneously. The likelihood of a two-front war, particularly after the recent Indo-China military crisis, has overstretched IAF resources. As a result, despite being a more resourceful force, IAF remains in consistent state of struggle for overcoming its threat perceptions.

IAF needs minimum 42 combat squadrons to effectively counter two-front war threat. Currently, it has only 32 combat squadrons operational. IAF has recently raised two squadrons of highly capable Rafale-F3R combat aircrafts from France. Weapons like Meteor ramjet BVR missile, Scalp air-launch cruise missile (ALCM), and sensor suite including RBE2-AA AESA radar, OSF optoelectronics system, and Spectra EW suite, have added new sophisticated capabilities in IAF. But the bulk of its fighter fleet is still based on Soviet origin aircrafts - majority of which suffer from serviceability issues and barely meet benchmarks of modern warfare.

IAF ambitious drive for acquiring 114 medium multirole combat aircraft (MMCA-2) is also yet to materialize. Additionally, delays in LCA Tejas program have compelled IAF to retain vintage MiG-21 Bison aircrafts which are obsolete and known for high crash rate. After retiring MiG-21 fleet in 2025, IAF would start phasing out Jaguar strike aircrafts. Frequent delays in development of domestic aircrafts and procurement of foreign fighters have strained IAF modernization efforts. If IAF plans regarding Tejas Mk1A and MMRCA-2 failed to materialize timely, the under strength IAF would be facing obsoleteness crisis in coming years.

In drones, situation is not good either. Although India’s domestic drone programs have achieved some degree of success, but IAF is yet to employ any MALE UCAV. India has recently signed $3 billion deal for 31 MQ-9B drones from United States. But IAF will get only 8 drones which are far from adequate to meet its operational requirements.

IAF has attempted to overcome voids in its air defenses by procuring surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems. Recently, Russian origin S-400 long-range air defense system has received massive appreciation from Indian defense circles. In theory, air defense systems serve as potent air-denial asset. But in practice, these systems have compatibility limitations and are very hard to employ in contested airspace. Plus, these systems can also be overwhelmed by adversary’s sophisticated SEAD-DEAD (Suppression and Destruction of Enemy Air Defense) capability.

The Operation Swift Retort can be contemplated as a litmus test of IAF-PAF comparative capabilities. In contrary to IAF which took weeks of preparatory measures for yet an unsuccessful strike in Balakot outskirts, the PAF mounted riposte within matter of hours. The Indian attempts to repel PAF retaliatory strikes yielded disastrous outcomes. IAF lost a Mig-21 Bison in air to air combat with PAF fighter aircrafts. Amidst fog of war, Indian Spyder SAM system shot down its own Mi-17 helicopter. Through-out the operation, the electromagnetic suppression imposed by PAF’s superior electronic warfare (EW) capabilities curbed the Indian command, control and communication, compelling IAF assets to disengage from combat. In a nutshell, during swift retort, PAF outclassed IAF in physical, electromagnetic and psychological spectrums.

The capability disparity, that IAF has repeatedly struggled to overcome, exists primarily due to three reasons: First, inability of IAF to proactively craft and timely implement the futuristic war fighting concepts; second, the technological deprivation in key aspects specifically in network centricity and electronic warfare; and finally, flawed force modernization approaches. The rapid depletion of combat squadrons, increasing force obsoleteness, inadequacy of force multipliers fleet, and delayed off-the shelf and indigenous procurements are the subsequent byproducts of these vulnerabilities.

In Indo-Pak strategic environment, balance of air power will continue to play an increasingly important role. The balance of air power determines whether deterrence will prevail or conflict will erupt. For sustainment of balance and retaining its credibility as a deterrent, PAF will have to ensure qualitative advantage against IAF.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695410688645386569

Why do you say that?

On 27 February 2019 as part of the Operation Swift Retort Pakistan's Airforce downed two SU-30MKIs and one MIG-21 fighters of the Indian Airforce and captured an Indian Airforce pilot alive.

Indian SU-30MKIs ran away with tails between their legs.



PAF's job is to take out the Indian Military Headquarters.

Dream on…..

Via Tipu7

In modern warfare, without control over skies, the likelihood of a successful military operation remains far-fetched. In the past, air power was primarily gauged by the numerical strength and ability to employ brute force in combat. But modern air power has become a function of synergizing combat and support assets for exertion of graduated firepower for undermining adversary in psychological and kinetic domains. The efficiency of modern air power is chiefly based upon: network centricity via sensor fusion for comprehensive situation awareness; precise and stand-off strike capability; look first and shoot first advantage; and the efficient employment of electromagnetic prowess.

The air power plays centerline role in Indo-Pak strategic environment. Being a smaller force with limited resources, Pakistan Air Force (PAF) has traditionally followed offensive defense posture. The notion behind this posture is to achieve psychological dominance over the adversary in the earliest phase of conflict to accomplish escalation control. At a later stage, to maintain credible A2/AD envelope over own air space to degrade enemy’s air, land and naval offensive operations. This includes efficient employment of available forces, high level of readiness, and progressive improvements in its doctrinal framework with respect to emerging technologies.

PAF is currently structured around a compound fleet of modern and previous generation combat aircrafts augmented by an ample number of force multipliers, i.e. AEW&Cs and EW/ELINT aircrafts. Historically, PAF has emphasized on the policy of procurement of high end assets from foreign sources and supplementing it with indigenous projects to constitute the bulk of forces. For example, F-16 Fighting Falcons, (AM/BM and C/D configuration) continues to manifest force’s amalgam of cutting edge technology and diverse experience. This has been augmented by recent procurement of J-10C Vigorous Dragon from China. J-10C has allowed PAF to employ new high-end Chinese weapons and sensor suite including PL-10 HOBS missile, PL-15 dual pulse BVR missile, Infrared Search and Track (IRST) and Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) radar.

Meanwhile, the joint production of Jf-17 Thunder program has contemplated advantages of its own. These advantages include: the aversion of the obsoleteness crisis by replacing outdated aircrafts and diffusion of modern capabilities to the entirety of fleet without outstretching the budgetary limitations. Currently, Jf-17 Block-III is the most capable version and has introduced a new set of technologies like AESA radar, and next generation weapon air-to-air missiles, and a host of precise and stand-off air to ground munitions. In parallel, PAF is also keen to retain its advantage in unmanned aerial systems. Beside acquiring home-grown drones of varying capability, PAF is procuring cutting edge Akinci HALE UCAV and combat-proven TB-02 MALE UCAV from Turkey.

The real strength of PAF, however, is represented by its comparatively abundant fleet of air borne early warning control (AEW&C) aircrafts. PAF operates almost dozen AEW&C aircrafts of Chinese (ZDK-03) and Swedish (Erieye) origin. These eyes in the sky provide sustained intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) and command & control capabilities. The popularization of AEW&Cs and EW/ELINT platforms, and growing jointness of all assets into a synergized force, has rapidly consolidated PAF into a force which can credibly avert all levels of aggression by the Indian counterparts.

Indian Air Force (IAF), being a numerically superior force with better combat stamina, is postured for a prolonged multi-front and attrition-oriented warfare. This posture, however, now has limited feasibility, particularly after overt nuclearization of India and Pakistan. Unlike PAF, which is entirely structured against India-centric threats, IAF has two major fronts to deal with simultaneously. The likelihood of a two-front war, particularly after the recent Indo-China military crisis, has overstretched IAF resources. As a result, despite being a more resourceful force, IAF remains in consistent state of struggle for overcoming its threat perceptions.

IAF needs minimum 42 combat squadrons to effectively counter two-front war threat. Currently, it has only 32 combat squadrons operational. IAF has recently raised two squadrons of highly capable Rafale-F3R combat aircrafts from France. Weapons like Meteor ramjet BVR missile, Scalp air-launch cruise missile (ALCM), and sensor suite including RBE2-AA AESA radar, OSF optoelectronics system, and Spectra EW suite, have added new sophisticated capabilities in IAF. But the bulk of its fighter fleet is still based on Soviet origin aircrafts - majority of which suffer from serviceability issues and barely meet benchmarks of modern warfare.

IAF ambitious drive for acquiring 114 medium multirole combat aircraft (MMCA-2) is also yet to materialize. Additionally, delays in LCA Tejas program have compelled IAF to retain vintage MiG-21 Bison aircrafts which are obsolete and known for high crash rate. After retiring MiG-21 fleet in 2025, IAF would start phasing out Jaguar strike aircrafts. Frequent delays in development of domestic aircrafts and procurement of foreign fighters have strained IAF modernization efforts. If IAF plans regarding Tejas Mk1A and MMRCA-2 failed to materialize timely, the under strength IAF would be facing obsoleteness crisis in coming years.

In drones, situation is not good either. Although India’s domestic drone programs have achieved some degree of success, but IAF is yet to employ any MALE UCAV. India has recently signed $3 billion deal for 31 MQ-9B drones from United States. But IAF will get only 8 drones which are far from adequate to meet its operational requirements.

IAF has attempted to overcome voids in its air defenses by procuring surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems. Recently, Russian origin S-400 long-range air defense system has received massive appreciation from Indian defense circles. In theory, air defense systems serve as potent air-denial asset. But in practice, these systems have compatibility limitations and are very hard to employ in contested airspace. Plus, these systems can also be overwhelmed by adversary’s sophisticated SEAD-DEAD (Suppression and Destruction of Enemy Air Defense) capability.

The Operation Swift Retort can be contemplated as a litmus test of IAF-PAF comparative capabilities. In contrary to IAF which took weeks of preparatory measures for yet an unsuccessful strike in Balakot outskirts, the PAF mounted riposte within matter of hours. The Indian attempts to repel PAF retaliatory strikes yielded disastrous outcomes. IAF lost a Mig-21 Bison in air to air combat with PAF fighter aircrafts. Amidst fog of war, Indian Spyder SAM system shot down its own Mi-17 helicopter. Through-out the operation, the electromagnetic suppression imposed by PAF’s superior electronic warfare (EW) capabilities curbed the Indian command, control and communication, compelling IAF assets to disengage from combat. In a nutshell, during swift retort, PAF outclassed IAF in physical, electromagnetic and psychological spectrums.

The capability disparity, that IAF has repeatedly struggled to overcome, exists primarily due to three reasons: First, inability of IAF to proactively craft and timely implement the futuristic war fighting concepts; second, the technological deprivation in key aspects specifically in network centricity and electronic warfare; and finally, flawed force modernization approaches. The rapid depletion of combat squadrons, increasing force obsoleteness, inadequacy of force multipliers fleet, and delayed off-the shelf and indigenous procurements are the subsequent byproducts of these vulnerabilities.

In Indo-Pak strategic environment, balance of air power will continue to play an increasingly important role. The balance of air power determines whether deterrence will prevail or conflict will erupt. For sustainment of balance and retaining its credibility as a deterrent, PAF will have to ensure qualitative advantage against IAF.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1695410688645386569

Feel good article of self praise with Chinese made weaponry which will not work at the critical time. Moreover American supplied weaponry is 45 years old. It is junk today even if Americans upgrade its electronics and radars and sells you better beyond visual range missile.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

USN strike group is deployed in the Mediterranean Sea to monitor ongoing Ukraine - Russia War. If this war spiral to the sea, USN strike group will take care of Russian ships. Not sure if others have enough balls.

Turkey wants to keep its distance from the Ukraine - Russia War.

Both Turkey and Greece have lost men in incidents over Aegean and can hurt each other badly in case of war:

Face-Off Over The Aegean: How Greek And Turkish Air Forces Stack Up

With tensions rising over energy reserves in the Aegean Sea, the disgruntled neighbors have air arms that are well-equipped and at high readiness.

www.thedrive.com

Let's assume that Turkey can defeat Greece in the war, French might want to prevent Greek defeat. The French might be posturing in Aegean to indicate this intent.

But this is something that US will not want to happen because this development will be a huge setback to NATO on the whole. This is why the situation has not spiraled out of control in the region.

Trust a snake before the USA....

As per the Turkish strategists, it's all about encircling Turkey from all sides via building tons of bases......

 

[LeGenD]

Dream on…..


Feel good article of self praise with Chinese made weaponry which will not work at the critical time. Moreover American supplied weaponry is 45 years old. It is junk today even if Americans upgrade its electronics and radars and sells you better beyond visual range missile.

Are you describing MiG-21 in this statement? Sounds like it.

F-16 has better service life and lower maintenance requirements than Russian jets to keep them air worthy.

The term 45 years old is meaningless because PAF F-16 Block 15 are not this old and received Mid Life Update in 2012.