Slow poisoned academia?

[Solomon2]

Slow poisoned academia?
By Yaqoob Khan Bangash
Published: December 2, 2013

The writer is the Chairperson of the Department of History, Forman Christian College, and tweets at @BangashYK.

Recently, I read an article by Dr Mubarak Ali on the dearth of original research in history in Pakistan. Dr Ali lamented the ideology-led agenda in Pakistan which has stifled any development in the discipline. While his criticism is apt, and as I and others have also pointed out the same several times, I think there are a few other issues which we have ignored.

First, an academic culture takes centuries to develop. The ancient universities of England and Europe did not suddenly emerge; it took a long time before they attracted enough scholars to become leading centres of research. In fact, from its inception in about the 11thcentury, it took till the High Middle Ages for Oxford to become one of the best universities of the world. The developmental period of a few centuries was critical in making Oxford (and well, Cambridge) the leading university of the world. Several things happened in this period, but the most important was the fact that certain bright scholars committed themselves to stay, research and teach at these universities. If one looks at the early academic centres in Pakistan — Punjab University, Government College, Forman Christian College and even the ones which flourished post-Partition like the universities of Karachi and Sindh — one can find a good list of scholars. However, when one looks at them now, at least in my discipline, history, one can hardly point out anyone even half-decent. Therefore, the ‘brain drain’ from Pakistan is one of the primary causes of the slow death of the academia in Pakistan. Almost all the well-known Pakistani scholars in history, political science, anthropology, are not living or working in Pakistan. What made them leave is obvious, but their absence certainly prevents the nurturing of future scholars in Pakistan. Just imagine if we also had an Irfan Habib or a Romila Thapar at hand, where our research in early and medieval South Asia would be!

Secondly, we have yet to embrace ‘liberal’ education. Yes, this will take a long time, but, at least, a concerted effort needs to be made in this direction. European, and then American, universities flourished after they embraced critical thinking and freedom of expression. Our universities are still mired in an age where not addressing a tutor in an old-fashioned submissive way is still a crime, where students are still ‘children’ and most importantly, where arguing with the tutor is considered disrespectful. In my experience, most tutors do know that they are perpetuating an archaic notion of the academia, but they deliberately do so because they themselves are on a weak footing and do not want anyone to figure it out. It is the rut within, which is eating up the academia more than anything else.

Thirdly and very importantly, the academia has failed to be the nerve centre or the ‘conscience’, as Dr Ali puts it, of society. Academia in Pakistan is notoriously divided and self-centred. Ever since I have come back to Pakistan, I have noticed that most academics like to live in their ivory towers and look with disdain upon others. They also like to pull one another down than help develop others or compete academically. Earlier this year, I, at the prompting of Professor Ayesha Jalal, set up a History Society in Lahore to promote history teaching and research in the city. The society has yet to garner enough interest to keep going for a while since working together to support one another is still a distant dream in Pakistan. In fact, there is very little interaction between universities in the city and seldom does one university invite another for joint initiatives or events — let alone the general public. At least, Lahore certainly has the critical mass to jump-start history teaching and research but it can only be done if we work together. Only then can our collective lament of the slow poisoning of academia be stemmed.

So let me take the first step. The Department of History, Forman Christian College is hosting a lecture by Dr Rajmohan Gandhi, Professor at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, on Abdul Ghaffar Khan followed by the book launch of his recent superb book entitled Punjab: from Aurangzeb to Mountbatten, at which Dr Mubashar Hasan, Ms Jugnu Mohsin and Mr Raza Rumi will speak. It is on December 5, 2013 at 3pm and all of you are invited.

Published in The Express Tribune, December 3rd, 2013.

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[Pakistani E]

Because every university in Pakistan has been taken over by extremists with links to Jamaat e Islami. Those who refuse to submit or are not Jamaati type people are hounded and kept in their place or forced to leave.

And the writer trying to use time as excuse by comparing Oxford and Cambridge is really laughable, American universities haven't been around for very long either, yet they are considered some of the best. Lame excuse lame article, misses the actually reason of the decline of Pakistan, mainly the rise of the religious right.

 

[pak-marine]

Because every university in Pakistan has been taken over by extremists with links to Jamaat e Islami. Those who refuse to submit or are not Jamaati type people are hounded and kept in their place or forced to leave.

And the writer trying to use time as excuse by comparing Oxford and Cambridge is really laughable, American universities haven't been around for very long either, yet they are considered some of the best. Lame excuse lame article, misses the actually reason of the decline of Pakistan, mainly the rise of the religious right.

We should thanks Jamat e Islami and their ghuda gardi in educational institutes of Pakistan , speacial thanks to army for having them as political arm and lastly the stupid political parties who allied and never stood up against these thugs

 

[Pakistani E]

We should thanks Jamat e Islami and their ghuda gardi in educational institutes of Pakistan , speacial thanks to army for having them as political arm and lastly the stupid political parties who allied and never stood up against these thugs

It has always baffled me as how Pakistanis have allowed Jamaat e Islami to operate in Pakistan. History tells us they were are at forefront of anti Pakistani propaganda before partition. You have named all the people truly responsible for the decline of Pakistan. The army who took them and nurtured them, and the politicians who used them, before Jamaat grew from both of them and is now trying to take over Pakistan with its armed-wing aka Taliban.

 

[Not Sure]

Because every university in Pakistan has been taken over by extremists with links to Jamaat e Islami. Those who refuse to submit or are not Jamaati type people are hounded and kept in their place or forced to leave.

And the writer trying to use time as excuse by comparing Oxford and Cambridge is really laughable, American universities haven't been around for very long either, yet they are considered some of the best. Lame excuse lame article, misses the actually reason of the decline of Pakistan, mainly the rise of the religious right.

While I find it rare that people post well written articles on PDF, this piece surely is one of those rare ones.

You call it a lame article merely because you could not find the reason in it that would appeal to you - the rise of far right. But I think if you at least bothered to read the article, you would know that that reason too has been mentioned, although in a way that is a bit too subtle for you.

Secondly, we have yet to embrace ‘liberal’ education. Yes, this will take a long time, but, at least, a concerted effort needs to be made in this direction. European, and then American, universities flourished after they embraced critical thinking and freedom of expression. Our universities are still mired in an age where not addressing a tutor in an old-fashioned submissive way is still a crime, where students are still ‘children’ and most importantly, where arguing with the tutor is considered disrespectful. In my experience, most tutors do know that they are perpetuating an archaic notion of the academia, but they deliberately do so because they themselves are on a weak footing and do not want anyone to figure it out. It is the rut within, which is eating up the academia more than anything else.

What do you think the parts marked in bold mean?

Now, coming to your point that American universities haven't been around for long, what do you really know? Do you even have any idea how old is Harvard College? Try google.

And then, US is a relatively new nation and the educational institutes there were built by the intellectuals who came from England and were educated at the top colleges there.

Do not let your one sided view blind you so much that you fail to even read an article and jump the gun.

 

[Pakistani E]

While I find it rare that people post well written articles on PDF, this piece surely is one of those rare ones.

You call it a lame article merely because you could not find the reason in it that would appeal to you - the rise of far right. But I think if you at least bothered to read the article, you would know that that reason too has been mentioned, although in a way that is a bit too subtle for you.





What do you think the parts marked in bold mean?

Now, coming to your point that American universities haven't been around for long, what do you really know? Do you even have any idea how old is Harvard College? Try google.

And then, US is a relatively new nation and the educational institutes there were built by the intellectuals who came from England and were educated at the top colleges there.

Do not let your one sided view blind you so much that you fail to even read an article and jump the gun.

I didn't jump no gun. The writer is living in Pakistan so perhaps is afraid to be too obvious, He wrote a massive article because he wants to get it published while a single line which I said was more to the point instead of performing mental gymnast to avoid sounding too anti extremist.

You're right I called it lame because it didn't appeal to me, it didn't appeal to anyone who has studied in Pakistani universities who knows what happens there.

Your point about Harvard etc would make sense if no intellectuals existed during partition. Famous muslim educationalists and academics moved to Pakistan after its formation. The fact Pakistan did quite well academically before the slide to religious extremism supports my point. You should refrain from subtly referring to someone as ignorant if you have never lived in Pakistan and don't know what happens here.

 

[Not Sure]

I didn't jump no gun. The writer is living in Pakistan so perhaps is afraid to be too obvious, He wrote a massive article because he wants to get it published while a single line which I said was more to the point instead of performing mental gymnast to avoid sounding too anti extremist.

You're right I called it lame because it didn't appeal to me, it didn't appeal to anyone who has studied in Pakistani universities who knows what happens there.

Your point about Harvard etc would make sense if no intellectuals existed during partition. Famous muslim educationalists and academics moved to Pakistan after its formation. The fact Pakistan did quite well academically before the slide to religious extremism supports my point. You should refrain from subtly referring to someone as ignorant if you have never lived in Pakistan and don't know what happens here.

I haven't lived in Pakistan, but I sure am better informed about that country than many of its countrymen, including what Pakistanis love to refer to as their 'intellectuals'.

And no, I did not try to 'subtly' call you an ignorant. If I were to call you anything, I would do it in the most obvious fashion, along with such valid reasons that you won't even counter it.

While the article has clearly talked about the 'religious extremism' problem, may be it is the lack of usage of that particular term, which has become such a cliche it would make people want to puke, that has gotten you so bad.

About that Harvard example - there has been no dearth of smart people in the States for the last 250 years, and yet the majority of the top institutions are those that are at least 100 years old. Ever wondered why?

I have a strong feeling that you want to go out and stick posters all over Pakistan that would say nothing but "extremism! Extremism!! EXTREMISM!!!". Things don't work like that. Extremism is nothing more than a byproduct of other problems. Try to look deeper.

 

[Pakistani E]

I haven't lived in Pakistan, but I sure am better informed about that country than many of its countrymen, including what Pakistanis love to refer to as their 'intellectuals'.

And no, I did not try to 'subtly' call you an ignorant. If I were to call you anything, I would do it in the most obvious fashion, along with such valid reasons that you won't even counter it.

While the article has clearly talked about the 'religious extremism' problem, may be it is the lack of usage of that particular term, which has become such a cliche it would make people want to puke, that has gotten you so bad.

About that Harvard example - there has been no dearth of smart people in the States for the last 250 years, and yet the majority of the top institutions are those that are at least 100 years old. Ever wondered why?

I have a strong feeling that you want to go out and stick posters all over Pakistan that would say nothing but "extremism! Extremism!! EXTREMISM!!!". Things don't work like that. Extremism is nothing more than a byproduct of other problems. Try to look deeper.

Can you tell me how things work then?

 

[Not Sure]

Can you tell me how things work then?

Yakoob Khan Bangash said it already. In fact he did it too! You should have read him in time and accepted his invitation.



Yet, nothing is lost. How about doing an honest research in History and have it published? If not in Pakistan, then elsewhere. Remember - 'Honest' is the keyword here. I can only hope you won't absolve the Admadiyya community of its choice of opportunism over morality when you do the research.


It is one of the most effective ways to counter the problem of 'extremism' that you are so fed up with. Remember - whenever intolerance rises in Pakistan, people never stop quoting Jinnah's speech where he talked about secularism. The Sheeple wouldn't look at the merits or pitfalls of secularism, they will only follow what Jinnah/Iqbal spoke. So do the History thing, bring out the best of it, and quote it for people to turn the tide in your favor.

 

[Dubious]

Because every university in Pakistan has been taken over by extremists with links to Jamaat e Islami. Those who refuse to submit or are not Jamaati type people are hounded and kept in their place or forced to leave.

And the writer trying to use time as excuse by comparing Oxford and Cambridge is really laughable, American universities haven't been around for very long either, yet they are considered some of the best. Lame excuse lame article, misses the actually reason of the decline of Pakistan, mainly the rise of the religious right.

Mind you BOTH Cambridege and Oxford were for MONKS, PRIEST TO BE AND Scholars of religion before they emerged as an institute to the "NORMAL PEOPLE" and this transition took time! Ages if you ask me for them to understand that the lay man can also be educated let alone a woman!

The 1st issues is the dark age mentality:

Academia in Pakistan is notoriously divided and self-centred. Ever since I have come back to Pakistan, I have noticed that most academics like to live in their ivory towers and look with disdain upon others. They also like to pull one another down than help develop others or compete academically.

Secondly the article highlights more about the brain drain issue than about any other issues which can also be addressed!

The decline in Pakistani academia is something MOST of us know but refuse to acknowledge...1 of the reason is lack of proper funding and another is lack of motivation and then a number of other reasons can be piled up...

As for American universities, they concentrate more on capitalism and competition...Before a project is even finished and deemed successful, the prof in charge is already filling in patents so no one copies! THIS IS BEFORE IT IS EVEN CLOSE TO BEING SUCCESSFUL...ALREADY no one else can research in areas close to that field as it has been patented! So you can put it as a monopoly (at least in the drug and medical depts of which I have case studies and data)!

 

[Pakistani E]

Yakoob Khan Bangash said it already. In fact he did it too! You should have read him in time and accepted his invitation.



Yet, nothing is lost. How about doing an honest research in History and have it published? If not in Pakistan, then elsewhere. Remember - 'Honest' is the keyword here. I can only hope you won't absolve the Admadiyya community of its choice of opportunism over morality when you do the research.


It is one of the most effective ways to counter the problem of 'extremism' that you are so fed up with. Remember - whenever intolerance rises in Pakistan, people never stop quoting Jinnah's speech where he talked about secularism. The Sheeple wouldn't look at the merits or pitfalls of secularism, they will only follow what Jinnah/Iqbal spoke. So do the History thing, bring out the best of it, and quote it for people to turn the tide in your favor.

Aha I get it. Ahmadis are to blame for the rise of extremism in Pakistan. I am not really considered with turning the tide in my favour. I leave that to God.

Yakoob Khan Bangash said it already. In fact he did it too! You should have read him in time and accepted his invitation.



Yet, nothing is lost. How about doing an honest research in History and have it published? If not in Pakistan, then elsewhere. Remember - 'Honest' is the keyword here. I can only hope you won't absolve the Admadiyya community of its choice of opportunism over morality when you do the research.


It is one of the most effective ways to counter the problem of 'extremism' that you are so fed up with. Remember - whenever intolerance rises in Pakistan, people never stop quoting Jinnah's speech where he talked about secularism. The Sheeple wouldn't look at the merits or pitfalls of secularism, they will only follow what Jinnah/Iqbal spoke. So do the History thing, bring out the best of it, and quote it for people to turn the tide in your favor.

What history are you talking about? absolve the ahmadiyya community of opportunism? oh so its opportunism when it isn't something you agree with it. I get it, Ahmadis are to blame for the rise of extremism? right? is this what you are arguing? or are you just going off topic?

The problem of extremism hardly existed until Jinnah sahib was well out of the picture. The rise of extremism has nothing to do with what Jinnah sahib or Iqbal wanted. It was nurtured and spread by our military and political establishment for their own designs, it is a mind set brought about religious clergy who want to take over the world through violence and oppression.

 

[FaujHistorian]

Because every university in Pakistan has been taken over by extremists with links to Jamaat e Islami. Those who refuse to submit or are not Jamaati type people are hounded and kept in their place or forced to leave.

And the writer trying to use time as excuse by comparing Oxford and Cambridge is really laughable, American universities haven't been around for very long either, yet they are considered some of the best. Lame excuse lame article, misses the actually reason of the decline of Pakistan, mainly the rise of the religious right.

Every University?

Please do not spread the ignorance.

I respect you as a poster.

But posting falsehood will not win you any points.


Don't take me wrong

Islamist Jahil Terrorists (IJT) has a stranglehold on few government run universities and colleges. Like Punjab University Lahore campus.

Moreover the state schools in my city of Karachi are cesspool of $hitty politics of all kinds of ethnicity based terrorism.


However the good news is that pretty much all major and well known privately run universities and many "excellence" colleges do not allow the likes of IJT to come near them.

Additionally when students have to pay from their own pockets, they tend to focus on studies and not the $hitty Jamati politics.


Thank you for your understanding.

Mind you BOTH Cambridege and Oxford were for MONKS, PRIEST TO BE AND Scholars of religion before they emerged as an institute to the "NORMAL PEOPLE" and this transition took time! !

Even well intentioned, the comparison is not fully correct.

Christians priests however prejudiced they were, also produced some wonderful researchers.
--- Priests were involved in study of plants and thus supported evolution (not at the same level as say darwin)
--- Priests were directly supporting mapping of other planets etc.

On the opther hand Islamists Mullahs and Ayatullahs with their 1400+ history do not show any such examples.

And

Please do not quote any Arabic sounding names to prove them they were Mullahs and Ayatullahs.

Thank you.

 

[Dubious]

Even well intentioned, the comparison is not fully correct.

Christians priests however prejudiced they were, also produced some wonderful researchers.
--- Priests were involved in study of plants and thus supported evolution (not at the same level as say darwin)
--- Priests were directly supporting mapping of other planets etc.

On the opther hand Islamists Mullahs and Ayatullahs with their 1400+ history do not show any such examples.

And

Please do not quote any Arabic sounding names to prove them they were Mullahs and Ayatullahs.

Thank you.

We are not talking about WHAT THEY DID IN THE UNIVERSITY...but about the university itself...Again you see religion esp Islam in any context...you fight it as though it is ALWAYS wrong...

By using the word Ayatullahs I can tell where and what you are aiming at ....please stop your biased hatred towards anything positive about Islam...

Schools during the golden era of Islam around 1400 were way better than the founding of collages in Cambridge or Oxford...Yes you can do a case study (please dont use biased articles)...so again we are talking about the schools the scholars NOT the extremists whom you see ONLY...

 

[FaujHistorian]

First, an academic culture takes centuries to develop.

Secondly, we have yet to embrace ‘liberal’ education.

Thirdly and very importantly, the academia has failed to be the nerve centre or the ‘conscience’,
.

I admire Mr. Bangash's thoughtfulness. Thanks for sharing Mr. @Solomon2

He has pointed out 3 important aspects.

Unfortunately they all are focused on "academia" for many right reasons but also incorrect assumptions.


We may miss some important characteristics of Europeans and their scientific achievements if we just focused on academia.


For example,

much of Europe's science took huge leaps not by 17th-18th century academics,

but instead

the credit goes to Middle and Upper class European businessmen and aristocrats, who formed scientific societies, and spent their own money to pursue scientific discoveries.


Let me give you guys just one example. But there are hundreds more.


Charles Darwin, who may be called "Baba-e-evolution" (father of the theory of evolution) wasn't some f@t @rsed professor sitting in some big name school.

Him and his close friends associates were rich guys who were interested in studying things around them.

So they collected beetles, flowers, stones, birds, animals etc.
They spent their own money and traveled to far corners of earth to find new things, new species.

Rich men with shared tastes of fine china, food, win, women and other hobbies came together and formed societies, and clubs.

and published their findings in the journals of those societies.

This is how Darwin changed our understanding of the natural world.

This is how Galelio (who spent his own money and time) to put together a telescope, and figured out that earth is no forking center of the universe.

Rich men who could not travel by theselves, gave money to others who could.

And


This was how much of European discoveries came about,.


What do our smart men and rich men do with their money and cash?

They eat that forking money, build big mansions, and marry off their daughters and sons to other rich men's daughters and sons.


All through INdia, Pakistan, BDesh, the middle east, where we see this dead space scientifically speaking.

Why

Because no forking rich aristocrat will spend his hard earned money to start a society of anything focused on science.
(Exceptions? Yes! Rich men in our societies do build hospitals and sometimes schools who then award degrees and diplomas but no real education)


If our rich men do go out of the usual spending pattern, then they form societies and parties that create mayhem and death and destruction in the name of Islamist and ethnic chauvinism.

Case in point:


--- Murda and Qattal Movement (MQM)
--- Anti_Pakistan Terrorists bil Islamist (PTI)
--- Pakistan Mullah League Nadan group (PMLN)
--- Peenay Pilany wali Party (PPP)
-- Jahiliyyah fil Islam (JI)


I hope you all understand the 4rth point in addition to the excellent 3 points raised by Prof Bangash.

So let me take the first step. The Department of History, Forman Christian College is hosting a lecture by Dr Rajmohan Gandhi, Professor at the University of Illinois, Urbana-Champaign, on Abdul Ghaffar Khan followed by the book launch of his recent superb book entitled Punjab: from Aurangzeb to Mountbatten, at which Dr Mubashar Hasan, Ms Jugnu Mohsin and Mr Raza Rumi will speak. It is on December 5, 2013 at 3pm and all of you are invited.

This is awesome. Given time, I plan to travel and meet Prof Bangash during one of his future meetings.

 

[Leader]

Any state's history is nothing but lies. before States it was King's story, now its State's story. anyone who has read british history or american text book history knows what I am talking about..