Slow modernisation of capabilities a big concern: IAF chief

[The_Sidewinder]

nobody is asking rafale be substituted by LCA

what we are saying is Rafale is not needed as Su30MKI can do all jobs that rafale can

LCA is nos filler - replacing mig21 etc

I got your point mate.

 

[TimeTraveller]

dont confuse ToT with licensce to mfg

ToT means giving the knowhow of selected technologies nothing to do with building more rafales

Licensing for mfg means - right now we can build 108 rafales if we need to build more we have to pay extra and then obtain permission to build more and then build more



@TimeTraveller

when i asked why odes IAF want to replace low end Mig21 tihe rafels
you replied rafales are not replacing migs21 they will replace Jag + Mig27 & Mig21 will be replace by LCA

now your this question and this answer clearly indicates Mig21 will be replaced by Rafales - Why?

also

if LCA is the replacement for Mig21 and Mig21 are going to be retired by 2020-2022 then should we be ordering rafales (126) or ordering LCA Tejas in mass nos ?

make up your mind dont play IAF games

l

" Licensing for mfg means - right now we can build 108 rafales if we need to build more we have to pay extra and then obtain permission to build more and then build more "...Thanks sir i was not knowing this...

"
when i asked why odes IAF want to replace low end Mig21 tihe rafels
you replied rafales are not replacing migs21 they will replace Jag + Mig27 & Mig21 will be replace by LCA

"
I didn't said that mig 21s will be replaced by rafales... As a replacement for mig 21, IAF is preparing to induct LCA Tejas...( this is written in wikipedia " List of active Indian military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia " )... For mig 27 and jaguars, i was having a doubt that whether rafales will replace mig 27 or jaguars or both and i got the answer...
i never said that mig 21 will be replaced by rafales nor i said that mig 21 will be replaced by LCA, i just simply asked a question which was " whether rafales are a replacement for mig 27 or both( mig27 +sepecat jaguar)...? " because previous posts cleared that rafale is not for mig 21 but for mig 27 and Jaguars...


"
now your this question and this answer clearly indicates Mig21 will be replaced by Rafales - Why?
"
now i never said this also , my second question was " Is there any possibility for India to built more than 126 rafales because india is getting TOT with Dassault, so it should replace Mirage 2000 and Mig 29 with rafales also + mass produce atleast 200+ otherwise what will be the use of TOT...? " which means whether is there any possibility of IAF to replace mirage 2000s and mig 29s with rafales( i didn't used the word mig 21) + mass produce them means to induct more and more to raise the number of squadrons because i heard a news that some IAF officers want to increase the no. of squadrons from currently specified 42 to more than 50... I was also saying that we should fully utilize this TOT for further induction of rafales...

 

[Storm Force]

FOR THOSE OF YOU CALLING FOR MORE NOS AND MORE SQDS

I think the IAF is in catch 22

We can modernise and keep 34 sqds

OR

We keep obselete planes flying and GET TO 39/42 sqds.

WE CANT DO BOTH.

the answer

The world class air forces

PLAAF
ISRAEL
RAF
France

have fewer fighters BUT much more advanced MULTI ROLERS

And that is what i advocate

Rafale / mki/ lca / FGFA four types only

ALL multi role

32-34 sqds no more than 650 PLANES

 

[sancho]

Your comments

These are the crucial parts imo, because they actually show the current situation:

However, hailing the new government, which he said "meant business", Raha expressed hope that under it all the processes would be reviewed so that a much faster system of greater accountability can be put in place.

"They are reviewing every project. Accountability is being fixed. There is a great urgency," he said, adding that all three service chiefs can meet Prime Minister Narendra Modi one -on-one every month to discuss matters of importance.

...and also said that there was an urgent need to replace the vintage light helicopters of the Army as well as air force as their flight safety record is not good.

We have a new government / PM, that is mainly aiming on business as their prime policy in every field and not on India developing state of the art defence equipment (be it alone or in joint developments). That's why the government is reviewing all the running tenders and if they can, they scrap and re-issue them to gain more business!
That's exactly what happened in the LUH competition, which just needed a final decision about the winner, but was scrapped and now should be re-issued, with a modified tender to provide Indian private industry with more business. The make in India tag is just a fake PR measure, since it would had been build in India anyway, just by another Indian company. So the "reviewing every project", is actually delaying the modernisation of our forces, for years in many cases, even if the modified tenders can hold clauses for more accountability at the end (which at this point and dealing with private industry is clearly too early to tell).
The part of that the three chiefs can meet the PM every month is just hilarious and also tells a lot about the current government style. Saddam Hussein was a dictator, but has several ministers for different fields too, although only he made the decissions. So why bother to talk with the Defence Minister (who isn't one anyway), when you directly can go to the head, who is running things anyway? I guess that explains why India doesn't have a permanent Defence Minister.

As per my knowledge, Rafales are meant to replace both jaguars & mig 27.

The prime aim of MMRCA is to replace parts of the Mig 21s, since LCA project was delayed and too much in trouble. So they mainly will replace Bison squads and only certain Mig 27 squad (which mainly will be replaced by MKIs), while Jags won't be phased out now at all. The last Jaguar was produced in 2008 and will have a long (theoretical) service life in IAF, while the older once will be replaced in numbers only with FGFA or later AMCA beyond 2020.

 

[TimeTraveller]

FOR THOSE OF YOU CALLING FOR MORE NOS AND MORE SQDS

I think the IAF is in catch 22

We can modernise and keep 34 sqds

OR

We keep obselete planes flying and GET TO 39/42 sqds.

WE CANT DO BOTH.

the answer

The world class air forces

PLAAF
ISRAEL
RAF
France

have fewer fighters BUT much more advanced MULTI ROLERS

And that is what i advocate

Rafale / mki/ lca / FGFA four types only

ALL multi role

32-34 sqds no more than 650 PLANES

Sir i wasn't mean that IAF should increase squadrons.... There was some news few days back when some of the IAF officers were saying that IAF is currently not upto the mark with their 32-34 squadrons instead IAF should have atleast 42 squadrons to be ready for max. utter circumstances or even to increase it to 50+......I was saying whether there is any possibility of IAF increasing the order of Rafales......

 

[Storm Force]

Those remarks are made AND in a deal world IAF would have 42 SQDS

But not with all MODERN PLATFORMS.

Simply not financially or even practically possible.

IF THE AIRFORCE wants 42 sdqs then the 200 ODD JAGUAR MIG29 & MIRAGE2000 will have remain in service up to 2040.

well over the USEFUL; LIVES.

at this moment i still worry about if the LCA will get to 120 units by 2030

We need 300 lca mk1/2/3 AND WITHIN THE next decade or so

beyond 2035 tejas mk2/3 is obselete.

 

[The_Sidewinder]

These are the crucial parts imo, because they actually show the current situation:



We have a new government / PM, that is mainly aiming on business as their prime policy in every field and not on India developing state of the art defence equipment (be it alone or in joint developments). That's why the government is reviewing all the running tenders and if they can, they scrap and re-issue them to gain more business!
That's exactly what happened in the LUH competition, which just needed a final decision about the winner, but was scrapped and now should be re-issued, with a modified tender to provide Indian private industry with more business. The make in India tag is just a fake PR measure, since it would had been build in India anyway, just by another Indian company. So the "reviewing every project", is actually delaying the modernisation of our forces, for years in many cases, even if the modified tenders can hold clauses for more accountability at the end (which at this point and dealing with private industry is clearly too early to tell).
The part of that the three chiefs can meet the PM every month is just hilarious and also tells a lot about the current government style. Saddam Hussein was a dictator, but has several ministers for different fields too, although only he made the decissions. So why bother to talk with the Defence Minister (who isn't one anyway), when you directly can go to the head, who is running things anyway? I guess that explains why India doesn't have a permanent Defence Minister.



The prime aim of MMRCA is to replace parts of the Mig 21s, since LCA project was delayed and too much in trouble. So they mainly will replace Bison squads and only certain Mig 27 squad (which mainly will be replaced by MKIs), while Jags won't be phased out now at all. The last Jaguar was produced in 2008 and will have a long (theoretical) service life in IAF, while the older once will be replaced in numbers only with FGFA or later AMCA beyond 2020.

Hey, You are the boss. I trust you more than any1 else in these matters. I am going take your word about the ongoing affair. Thanks for your reply, was eagerly looking forward to it.

 

[Trawllu]

" Licensing for mfg means - right now we can build 108 rafales if we need to build more we have to pay extra and then obtain permission to build more and then build more "...Thanks sir i was not knowing this...

"
when i asked why odes IAF want to replace low end Mig21 tihe rafels
you replied rafales are not replacing migs21 they will replace Jag + Mig27 & Mig21 will be replace by LCA

"
I didn't said that mig 21s will be replaced by rafales... As a replacement for mig 21, IAF is preparing to induct LCA Tejas...( this is written in wikipedia " List of active Indian military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia " )... For mig 27 and jaguars, i was having a doubt that whether rafales will replace mig 27 or jaguars or both and i got the answer...
i never said that mig 21 will be replaced by rafales nor i said that mig 21 will be replaced by LCA, i just simply asked a question which was " whether rafales are a replacement for mig 27 or both( mig27 +sepecat jaguar)...? " because previous posts cleared that rafale is not for mig 21 but for mig 27 and Jaguars...


"
now your this question and this answer clearly indicates Mig21 will be replaced by Rafales - Why?
"
now i never said this also , my second question was " Is there any possibility for India to built more than 126 rafales because india is getting TOT with Dassault, so it should replace Mirage 2000 and Mig 29 with rafales also + mass produce atleast 200+ otherwise what will be the use of TOT...? " which means whether is there any possibility of IAF to replace mirage 2000s and mig 29s with rafales( i didn't used the word mig 21) + mass produce them means to induct more and more to raise the number of squadrons because i heard a news that some IAF officers want to increase the no. of squadrons from currently specified 42 to more than 50... I was also saying that we should fully utilize this TOT for further induction of rafales...

drop the sir

 

[axisofevil]

These are the crucial parts imo, because they actually show the current situation:



We have a new government / PM, that is mainly aiming on business as their prime policy in every field and not on India developing state of the art defence equipment (be it alone or in joint developments). That's why the government is reviewing all the running tenders and if they can, they scrap and re-issue them to gain more business!
That's exactly what happened in the LUH competition, which just needed a final decision about the winner, but was scrapped and now should be re-issued, with a modified tender to provide Indian private industry with more business. The make in India tag is just a fake PR measure, since it would had been build in India anyway, just by another Indian company. So the "reviewing every project", is actually delaying the modernisation of our forces, for years in many cases, even if the modified tenders can hold clauses for more accountability at the end (which at this point and dealing with private industry is clearly too early to tell).
The part of that the three chiefs can meet the PM every month is just hilarious and also tells a lot about the current government style. Saddam Hussein was a dictator, but has several ministers for different fields too, although only he made the decissions. So why bother to talk with the Defence Minister (who isn't one anyway), when you directly can go to the head, who is running things anyway? I guess that explains why India doesn't have a permanent Defence Minister.



The prime aim of MMRCA is to replace parts of the Mig 21s, since LCA project was delayed and too much in trouble. So they mainly will replace Bison squads and only certain Mig 27 squad (which mainly will be replaced by MKIs), while Jags won't be phased out now at all. The last Jaguar was produced in 2008 and will have a long (theoretical) service life in IAF, while the older once will be replaced in numbers only with FGFA or later AMCA beyond 2020.

Sure Sancho. .....you didn't say shit when Congress ran us to the ground for 10 f-ing yrs. At least Modi is attempting some real change. I find it so funny and disturbing how you Congi types jump on a man who took power of country gone down the sewer and expect him to make miracles happen in 3 f-ing months! Where were you after 3 months of Congress rule? 3 yrs? 6 yrs? 10 yrs?



You may not like Modi's style of governace by comparing him to a dictator but India needs some serious changes and playing the DUMocracy game, will take more time that we don't have. The problem is that Congress was ineffective at making proper laws and setting up a proper system of governace for all of India for 50 yrs, that's why it so hard to get a concensus on how to run this land as other countries like China and such can make a decision and act immediately. We need to tweak the system and get it running in the right direction. Modi is the right man for the job.



if you wanna a close look at a dictator, just take a look at the Congress Dynasty family. They change their name to Gandhi for votes, no relation. Then in a slap to democracy, their family has been running Indian off and on for nearly 50 yrs since Independence! You cant make this shit up.


Obviously, you conveniently missed that point I guess. Manmohan Singh was used as a scape goat to shield that family, and their dumb stupid Rahul was being projected as a potential PM of India? Waht a bloody joke.....what do you think he would done regarding this IAF problem? Absolutely NOTHING. He would have made it worse, just like the past 10 plus yrs of UPA rule.

 

[sancho]

I find it so funny and disturbing how you Congi types jump on a man who took power of country gone down the sewer and expect him to make miracles happen in 3 f-ing months!

LOL What miracles are you talking about? Deciding either to take the Eurocopter Fennec or the Kamov K226? And I didn't even complain about this indecisiveness, although NDA and Modi were meant to bring decisions, but about the fact that they purposly delay important procurements, ignoring the need of the forces in favour for business! I am for our forces getting the arms and techs they need to secure the country and I am for our pilots not getting killed because they have to use outdated equipment. That's why I criticized former DM Antony to put the decision on hold, because the IA wanted to investigate if there is a relation between the problems in the VIP helicopter procurement and the LUH and why I am criticizing the current Government (because there is no propper DM in charge) to delay things too. I guess that shows where my priority lies!
And pointing to the realities is not favouring the one or the other. It is good that we aim on diverting licence productions to privat industry, to give HAL more competition. But that was not NDAs/Modis policy, but of the former DM that started it. And it's good if we implement that policy in every new tender, but it's silly to delay running tenders only to give privat industry more business, while the forces are suffering.
So will keep pointing to the realities apart from party politics, PR and media hype, just as I will remain to give credit where it's actually due.