What's new

Sink or swim: Sweden’s new A-26 next-gen submarine in doubt

Manticore

RETIRED MOD
Joined
Jan 18, 2009
Messages
10,115
Reaction score
114
Country
Pakistan
Location
Pakistan
Sink or swim: Sweden’s new A-26 next-gen submarine in doubt
19 February 2014 Grant Turnbull
Share on facebookShare on twitterShare on emailShare on printMore Sharing Services8



Concerns are growing over the lack of progress on Sweden’s A26 next-generation submarine programme, which is being developed to replace the Swedish Navy’s current Södermanland-class vessels. Despite the purchase of two submarines being approved by Swedish lawmakers in 2010, firm orders have yet to be placed.



KockumsA26-L.jpg


Contract negotiations are still ongoing between Swedish shipbuilders Kockums, who will manufacturer the vessel, and Sweden's Defence Materiel Administration (FMV). Differences between the two parties have significantly slowed contract negotiations, but details of what those differences actually are remain unknown. Both sides are tight-lipped on the whole process.

t is likely FMV and Kockums, which is owned by German shipbuilders ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems, cannot come to an agreement on the price of the new submarines.

Sweden could lose the ability to indigenously build submarines
The fear is that as the delays increase and orders are not placed, Kockums will not be able to afford the staff it has assigned to the A26 programme. The company will be left with no choice but to cut jobs and unions warn that Kockums' submarine division may have to close completely. If this happens, Sweden could lose its ability to indigenously build submarines.

That would be an historic event - Kockums has developed and manufactured cutting-edge submarines for the Swedish Navy at its Karlskrona shipyard since the 1930s. Their Gotland-class submarines introduced in the 1990s were the first-ever vessels to use a Stirling air-independent propulsion (AIP) system, extending underwater endurance to weeks rather than days and significantly lowering noise signature.

Technology developed by Kockums has also been integrated into Australia's Collins-class submarines and Singapore's Archer-class vessels. The US Navy also leased a Gotland-class submarine in 2007 to look at methods to counter next-generation submarines with low-noise propulsion systems.

Representatives from the unions at ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems recently wrote an open letter to Sweden's SvD newspaper criticising the contract impasse. "The expertise built up within Kockums for more than a century now risks dissipating in the wind and if this were to happen, you can not collect it again with reasonable means."

"We are skilled professionals in our areas of expertise and our knowledge can certainly be put to good use in other industries. But it would be with a very heavy heart to leave the company that has built large parts of our military fleet and built all of Sweden's submarines over the past century," the representatives' letter said.

Delays could cause capability gaps for navy
Even if the orders are eventually placed by the Swedish government, the long delays risk opening up a capability gap for the Swedish Navy. The Södermanland-class vessels, which the A-26 submarine is planned to replace, are set to be withdrawn from service around 2020. When the Swedish Parliament approved the A-26 in 2010, the timeframe was for the new vessels to come online as the Södermanland-class vessels were retired.

Four years on from that decision, a 2020 in-service date for the A-26 is now in doubt. Another concern for those in the Swedish defence industry is the planned upgrades for navy's Gotland-class submarines. These upgrades would extend the life of that platform to the mid-2020s but just like the A-26 stalemate, the FMV has also put off a firm decision on an upgrade contract.

Several media outlets in Sweden and Germany have blamed Kockums' German owner ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems for the negotiations impasse. Last October, a source told the German news website The Local that there was a campaign of 'internal warfare' waging in ThyssenKrupp against Kockums.

ThyssenKrupp, which bought Kockums in 2005, also owns German submarine manufacturers HDW a competitor in the global submarine market.

"The purchase of Kockums wasn't aimed at consolidating the naval industry and creating synergies, but at getting rid of a competitor," the source told The Local. At the time a spokesman for Kockums refused to comment on the claims and a spokeswoman for ThyssenKrupp said the company was 'unable to comment on market rumours'.

Whatever the final decision is, it will no doubt have a significant impact on the Swedish defence industry. With the possibility that Sweden could lose its entire capability to manufacture submarines, the stakes couldn't be higher

Sink or swim: Sweden’s new A-26 next-gen submarine in doubt - Naval Technology
 
Well, PN is looking for newer subs...I'm not suggesting anything, but maybe looking at foreign buyers may help Sweden retain it's ability to develop subs.
 
Well, PN is looking for newer subs...I'm not suggesting anything, but maybe looking at foreign buyers may help Sweden retain it's ability to develop subs.
The problem is that TKMS now owns Kockums, which is a direct competitor to another TKMS company HDW, which also builds submarines. TKMS is favoring HDW over Kockums, leaving it to bleed out ... or at least, the is what the article says. So, it doesn´t matter what you or anyone else buys.
 
The problem is that TKMS now owns Kockums, which is a direct competitor to another TKMS company HDW, which also builds submarines. TKMS is favoring HDW over Kockums, leaving it to bleed out ... or at least, the is what the article says. So, it doesn´t matter what you or anyone else buys.
TKMS realized that they are no longer wanted in Sweden, and are selling off Kockums to SAAB,
which will build the new subs.
 
TKMS realized that they are no longer wanted in Sweden, and are selling off Kockums to SAAB,
which will build the new subs.
All this after the Swedish defence development and acquisition authority raided the Kockums site under military escort to take proprietary materials back.
 
All this after the Swedish defence development and acquisition authority raided the Kockums site under military escort to take proprietary materials back.
No, the raid was before this decision, I guess it might have influenced the Germans ...
 
The much need country for Submarine experts are Middle East which are looking to have a very decent submarine fleet of its. If Kockum is closing then M.E should be looking to gain their expertise to start up their own Marine Engineering Industry instead of Oil and Gas based.

They are not closing. They are sold to SAAB after Sweden told TKMS that their quote for two new
submarines was rejected. SAAB was awarded an order for a pre-study on the new subs.
A lot of key engineers left TKMS for SAAB, and TKMS attempts to make people stay through large bonuses failed.

The Swedish Government owns the IP rights for most things, so TKMS was left with little else to do.
 
Well, PN is looking for newer subs...I'm not suggesting anything, but maybe looking at foreign buyers may help Sweden retain it's ability to develop subs.



That is not in our interest, however if it was a Joint Venture then we could build their designed Submarines and Ships at our Shipyards and share the Profits from Foreign Sales.
 
No, the raid was before this decision, I guess it might have influenced the Germans ...
That's what I said: first the raid, then Saab moves into the void. A-26 is proprietary of the Swedish defence department IIRC.
 
Some more information regarding Swedish Subs:

Stealth Subs Could Sink America’s Navy

Submarines are getting quieter, stealthier, and better armed. And that could mean major trouble for the U.S. Navy and its aging fleet of sub-hunters. The tactical balance between the surface warship and the submarine has strategic impact. The submarine is not made for a show of force. Its principal weapon is designed not to damage a ship, but to sink it—rapidly and probably with much loss of life. It’s a sure way to shift the trajectory of any conflict in a more violent direction.


The best deterrent against submarine attack is robust defense—but as little as surface sailors like to discuss it, that defense has seldom been less assured.
Modern diesel-electric submarines (SSKs) are very hard to detect. It’s not that SSKs with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems are much quieter, but they mitigate the SSK’s drawback: lack of speed and endurance on quiet electric power. When the Swedish AIP boat Gotland operated with the U.S. Navy out of San Diego in 2005-07, the Navy’s surface ships turned up all too often in a photo album acquired by the submarine’s mast. The sub was so quiet, that it consistently managed to get within easy torpedo range.

AIP submarines are a high priority in the budgets of nations such as Singapore, Korea and Japan. Russia has struggled with its Lada-class boats, but persisted, and is selling them to China. Sweden, whose Kockums yard developed the AIP technology for Japan’s big 4100-ton Soryu-class subs, had trouble getting its A26 replacement submarine program started. In an indication of its importance, Saab will buy the Kockums yard back for Sweden from ThyssenKrupp Marine Systems.

AIP—which uses stored liquid oxygen and fuel to generate power underwater—seems to be here to stay, whether it uses the Swedish-developed Stirling-cycle engine (a 19th-century curiosity, but very efficient) or fuel cells, favored by ThyssenKrupp’s German yards. and Russia. Lithium-ion batteries will further increase underwater performance. Kockums advertises another step in invisibility called Ghost (genuine holistic stealth) which, like stealth technology on an airplane, involves the careful blending of hull shapes and rubber-like coatings to make the submarine into a weak sonar target. .

Other improvements are making the submarine more elusive and lethal. Masts with high-definition cameras are as clear as direct-vision optics—so the mast needs only to break the surface and make a single sweep to provide a full horizon view. Finmeccanica’s WASS division and Atlas Electronik offer modern all-electric torpedoes with multiple guidance modes, from fiber-optic to wake-homing, and back-breaking influence fuzes that work too often for comfort.

Stealth Subs Could Sink America’s Navy - Yahoo News
 
Some more information regarding Swedish Subs:

Stealth Subs Could Sink America’s Navy

...
The best deterrent against submarine attack is robust defense—but as little as surface sailors like to discuss it, that defense has seldom been less assured.
Modern diesel-electric submarines (SSKs) are very hard to detect. It’s not that SSKs with air-independent propulsion (AIP) systems are much quieter, but they mitigate the SSK’s drawback: lack of speed and endurance on quiet electric power. When the Swedish AIP boat Gotland operated with the U.S. Navy out of San Diego in 2005-07, the Navy’s surface ships turned up all too often in a photo album acquired by the submarine’s mast. The sub was so quiet, that it consistently managed to get within easy torpedo range.
...

Stealth Subs Could Sink America’s Navy - Yahoo News

Q: What is slang for an Aircraft Carrier in the Swedish Navy?
A: Prey!
 
After reading the Article I wonder why we went for french Agosta instead of swed . May be marketing was weak or Bofors Ghost!!

AC defences are impenetrable. Our mirages have broken through their defences in exercises. Our Submarine has surprised the Americans a lot. Nothing is impenetrable.
 
HDW wont let them float. And lets not get this and get that, when in all financial honesty we do not even have money to repair our own midget submarines rusting away at the docks.
 

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom