Singapore buys tanks Merkava Mk 4

[Mista]

Do you really think Singapore( no matter how advanced its military) can win a full scale war with its potential enemies without support from a super power?

It's possible if you do a swift preemptive strike and gain buffer land, that's what the tanks are for. But Singapore's strategy ultimately revolves around deterrence rather than defence. Even if we can't win the war, we will try to bring the enemy down together if they attack. A lot of our military equipment are parked in Thailand and Australia, so even if Singapore is destroyed we are still able launch a counterattack to make a painful sting. Either way, you need massive attack and firepower to be effective.

 

[Nike]

It's possible if you do a swift preemptive strike and gain buffer land, that's what the tanks are for. But Singapore's strategy ultimately revolves around deterrence rather than defence. Even if we can't win the war, we will try to bring the enemy down together if they attack. A lot of our military equipment are parked in Thailand and Australia, so even if Singapore is destroyed we are still able launch a counterattack to make a painful sting. Either way, you need massive attack and firepower to be effective.

Singapore just thinking about defense for short term conflicts, not a long and protracted war. If Singapore initiated the war she will be doomed for good, as the two immediate neighbor of her is much bigger and have a much larger resources than Singapore.

 

[ahojunk]

Singapore just thinking about defense for short term conflicts, not a long and protracted war. If Singapore initiated the war she will be doomed for good, as the two immediate neighbor of her is much bigger and have a much larger resources than Singapore.

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On the contrary, the Singaporeans are smart and have plan for the longer term. They have air force based in Australia and elsewhere.

If either neighbor is stupid enough to attack Singapore (which I don't think will happen), Singapore will enlarge its territory substantially. With one swoop, it will have solved its water supply problem.

That's what the Merkava tanks are for.

 

[Nike]

.
On the contrary, the Singaporeans are smart and have plan for the longer term. They have air force based in Australia and elsewhere.

If either neighbor is stupid enough to attack Singapore (which I don't think will happen), Singapore will enlarge its territory substantially. With one swoop, it will have solved its water supply problem.

That's what the Merkava tanks are for.

that's why i said Singapore Armed Forces is for defense purpose only, and us being their neighbor for god knows when it happened long time ago is feeling better to have them as our (ASEAN islands) fortress in emergency case.

 

[Mista]

Singapore just thinking about defense for short term conflicts, not a long and protracted war. If Singapore initiated the war she will be doomed for good, as the two immediate neighbor of her is much bigger and have a much larger resources than Singapore.

Of course. Our military forces are only for defending; or for a more accurate term: deterrence. Singapore depends on the international trade heavily for our economy, so it will be dumb for us to attack first without any legitimate reason. The key is to end the war as swiftly as possible with massive attack power. If our larger neighbours decide to go into a long war of attrition, that's where all the tanks for buffer land and security packs with other countries come in.

If either neighbor is stupid enough to attack Singapore (which I don't think will happen), Singapore will enlarge its territory substantially. With one swoop, it will have solved its water supply problem.

Singapore has large achieved water self-sufficiency through the use of technology. We recent survived through the drought in Malaysia with our reservoirs still full. In fact, they requested us to supply them more potable water because of the severe drought there.

 

[Penguin]

I mean i would want that money spend on Navy or Air force if i'm a Singaporean, in fact, i think for unique country like Singapore, protection from super power is the only way to ensure its survival.

Survival? Is Singapore under threat?

 

[Mista]

Survival? Is Singapore under threat?

No. But you never know.

 

[Indos]

.
On the contrary, the Singaporeans are smart and have plan for the longer term. They have air force based in Australia and elsewhere.

If either neighbor is stupid enough to attack Singapore (which I don't think will happen), Singapore will enlarge its territory substantially. With one swoop, it will have solved its water supply problem.

That's what the Merkava tanks are for.

I dont think that will happen in the case of Indonesia. Singapore superiority is only on the Air Force. Our Army personnel are all professional soldiers (not conscript like most personnel in Singapore Army) and we still have police paramilitary as well (Brimob), both of them have huge real war experience. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_Indonesia

Despite that fact, I think Singapore cannot maintain their air superiority over Indonesia forever, 2030 is the line according to me. The problem is that on that moment the world geopolitics (prediction) will be more fragile than now since the world power will be shared through some great powers and regional powers (Indonesia is considered as the sole regional power in the region). So their Air superiority is likely to end in the time they need it the most.

And you are true, that either Indonesia and Malaysia will not attack Singapore since all territorial dispute has been solved, at least Indonesia and Singapore has solved that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regional_power

 

[Penguin]

Singapore:
27 F-5S
40 F-15SG (E variant)
60 F-16C/D
4 Gulfstream G550 AEW
5 KC-130 tankers
4 KC-135 tankers
6 A330 MRTT (on order)

Indonesia
6 F-5E
13 F-16A/C (12 more on order)
16 Su-27/Su-30
16 Hawk 209 light attack

Singapore only needs to maintain local air superiority, not over all of Indonesia. Indonesia has more ships but Singapore probably has better ships. To some extent that also seems the case with army, where Indonesia clearly has a numerical (manpower) advantage.

 

[Reashot Xigwin]

.
On the contrary, the Singaporeans are smart and have plan for the longer term. They have air force based in Australia and elsewhere.

If either neighbor is stupid enough to attack Singapore (which I don't think will happen), Singapore will enlarge its territory substantially. With one swoop, it will have solved its water supply problem.

That's what the Merkava tanks are for.

& how would they do that if their command HQ has been captured or destroyed. How would they coordinate or even resupply? Remember it only took a week for the Japanese to capture the so called "Gibraltar of the East." The thing about Malaysia or Indonesia is that they are stone throw away from Singapore.

Singapore will rely on delaying tactic & wait for ally reinforcement to arrive. For that Singapore will rely on the FPDA for backup.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Power_Defence_Arrangements

 

[Indos]

Singapore:
27 F-5S
40 F-15SG (E variant)
60 F-16C/D
4 Gulfstream G550 AEW
5 KC-130 tankers
4 KC-135 tankers
6 A330 MRTT (on order)

Indonesia
6 F-5E
13 F-16A/C (12 more on order)
16 Su-27/Su-30
16 Hawk 209 light attack

Singapore only needs to maintain local air superiority, not over all of Indonesia. Indonesia has more ships but Singapore probably has better ships. To some extent that also seems the case with army, where Indonesia clearly has a numerical (manpower) advantage.

This is what I think is kind of Wiki conspiracy......

You seems to look on this one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Air_Force I see the administrator there has some agenda though.....

I dont know why Wiki put Indonesian F 16 B/D as a trainer jet but dont do the same with Singaporean F 16 D ......

We ordered 24 F 16 C/D and the remaining F 16 A/B is 10. There are also 6 F16 C/D as spares (not being upgraded and refurbished into block 52 ID)

http://www.dsca.mil/major-arms-sales/indonesia-regeneration-and-upgrade-f-16cd-block-25-aircraft

And we do have tanker, our Hercules can feed our Sukhoi as well, check the picture on Google

Actually we ordered around 42 Hawk 109/209. 32 of them are Hawk 209 (light attack)

This light attack version (sidewinder on each wing) is somehow able to lock Australian F 18 Hornet during our bad relation moment (around 1999-early 2000- during East Timor vote for independence )

http://www.satuharapan.com/read-detail/read/hawk-200-tni-au-jet-tempur-kecil-berkemampuan-tinggi

http://www.militaryaviation.eu/trainer/BAe/Hawk_100_200.htm

About half of Indonesian T 50 Golden Eagle is attack version (TA-50). There is upgrade program also that has been planned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_T-50_Golden_Eagle

This one is better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Indonesian_Air_Force

 

[Penguin]

This is what I think is kind of Wiki conspiracy......

You seems to look on this one
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_Air_Force I see the administrator there has some agenda though.....

I dont know why Wiki put Indonesian F 16 B/D as a trainer jet but dont do the same with Singaporean F 16 D ......

We ordered 24 F 16 C/D and the remaining F 16 A/B is 10. There are also 6 F16 C/D as spares (not being upgraded and refurbished into block 52 ID)

That would my my oversight in looking at that inventory table, not some conspiracy by wiki, as this is worked on by very different people at different times.. Add 5 F16 B/D plus 3 on order. Now, does that change the overall picture? I think not.

And we do have tanker, our Hercules can feed our Sukhoi as well, check the picture on Google

Aerial refuelling by buddy-to-buddy method reduces the number of Su-27/30 fighters available for a combat mission(s) at a given time, so that is a trade-off to consider.

Following from C-130 wiki:

NI-AU – 24 C-130B/C/H, 2 KC-13-B

• Skadron Udara 17 (VIP Squadron) – C-130H-30 (also operates Lockheed L-100-30)
• Skadron Udara 31 (Logistics & Transport Squadron) – C-130H-30 (also operates Lockheed L-100-30)
• Skadron Udara 32 (Logistics & Transport Squadron) – C-130H-30, C-130B/C and KC-130B

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Lockheed_C-130_Hercules_operators#.C2.A0Indonesia

In 1995 is was reported: "To support its new fighter and strike aircraft, the air force hopes to fund the $60 million acquisition of two new in-flight-refueling tankers in the 1998/9 budget. The aircraft are needed to replace the air force's two elderly Lockheed KC-130B tankers."
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/indonesia-earmarks-more-cash-for-military-build-up-28127/

There is no listing in DSCA announcements of Indonesia acquiring KC-130s from present back to 2008. So, unless tankers acquired 1995-2008, there are just 2 and they are very old by now.

I've checked Sipri listings 1985 to present for the delivery of aircraft by China, France, Germany, NATO, South Korea, Russia, Soviet Union and USA: no tanker aircraft ordered/delivered.

Actually we ordered around 42 Hawk 109/209. 32 of them are Hawk 209 (light attack)

This light attack version (sidewinder on each wing) is somehow able to lock Australian F 18 Hornet during our bad relation moment (around 1999-early 2000- during East Timor vote for independence )

Yes, Indonesia purchased 32 Hawk 200s. However, that doesn't necessarily mean 32 are in service (i.e. operational) at a given time. For starters, Sipri mentions that some components (incl radar) for the last 6 were embargoed by USA. Which basically very much reduces their A2A combat potential ('seeing' the opponent is more difficult). And they are limited to SRAAMs anyway. The number is the Indonesian air force wiki apparently is from Flight Global World Air Forces 2016.

About half of Indonesian T 50 Golden Eagle is attack version (TA-50). There is upgrade program also that has been planned.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAI_T-50_Golden_Eagle

This one is better

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equipment_of_the_Indonesian_Air_Force

It all does not significantly alter the picture.

 

[lcloo]

If either neighbor is stupid enough to attack Singapore (which I don't think will happen), Singapore will enlarge its territory substantially. With one swoop, it will have solved its water supply problem.

I believe ahojunk is right because Singapore does not have much territory behind frontline if under attack, therefore the best defence is counter attack the attackers in the their own ground and sieze large buffer zone and then negotiate for ceasefire. Much like Israel did in their previous wars with Arabs.

Though in reality we do not expect war among us. And this scenario is not happening.

 

[Indos]

I believe ahojunk is right because Singapore does not have much territory behind frontline if under attack, therefore the best defence is counter attack the attackers in the their own ground and sieze large buffer zone and then negotiate for ceasefire. Much like Israel did in their previous wars with Arabs.

Though in reality we do not expect war among us. And this scenario is not happening.

I don't think Singaporean Army can do that even though they get air superiority support and better equipment. That Army personnel comes from rich city state, similar like Monaco or Luxemburg. Different mentality with Indonesian army that most soldiers come from rural village, usually from family who do hard work in agriculture, construction labor, and other blue color job. They are familiar with hardship, not an easy life. I bet there is physical different as well between people from rural areas and big town, usually they are stronger physically.

Majority Indonesian Army leadership starting from second lieutenant may come from middle class family, as they are usually better in education, something that is a must in a recruitment process in this level, beside passing some physical test, but despite so, I predict most of them are still related to military family so still retain some "military" character brought from home or their military neighborhood.

 

[mike2000 is back]

Not entirely true. Below is global fire power lisiting. Also I felt amusing that why Indonesian here, more than 1000x our size,100x our population would feel threaten by Singapore.

Shows your IQ.

Lol this global firepower ranking is just a ranking made using different parameters by different agencies, reason another organization might rank these countries differently. Plus they often use size of army/military(instead of technological capabilities, industrial capacity, ability to produce your own.equipment in.time of war I.e self sufficiency etc) which are all useless to be honest. how do you explain that Kenya is ahead of Singapore? Thailand is ahead of Spain? Philippines ahead of south Africa and Malaysia? Etc. Etc